ST: Blue Jays @ Indians | April 30-May 3

[Sifu]

At this rate, we might as well start a thread on trading away our vets.

[dagger]

Maybe we shouldn't be using Copeland two days in a row when he's been starting until now. Or maybe Copeland just got infected with whatever Pete Walker is giving the pitchers...

Pretty sure Copeland is gone after this game.

Ya sure, DFA the only guy on the pitching staff with an ERA of 0.00

[Nights King]

As tough as this all is i'm taking solace in the fact that the Beeston-Anthopolous-Gibbons trio won't survive another mediocre season. This franchise needs a fresh approach and new faces, people in charge who aren't ruining the team in order to survive another season. Rogers could always screw it up but there are so many smart and innovative GM and President candidates in Baseball right now there's a chance we might luck into someone good. That's a better hope than sticking with mediocrity and people who have committed multiple firing offences.

[Randle McMurphy]

As tough as this all is i'm taking solace in the fact that the Beeston-Anthopolous-Gibbons trio won't survive another mediocre season. This franchise needs a fresh approach and new faces, people in charge who aren't ruining the team in order to survive another season. Rogers could always screw it up but there are so many smart and innovative GM and President candidates in Baseball right now there's a chance we might luck into someone good. That's a better hope than sticking with mediocrity and people who have committed multiple firing offences.

You a fan of Duquette? Because I think it's pretty safe to say they'll be targeting him again based on last offseason. I just hope Ed Rogers doesn't give up a top prospect for him.

[C Court]

Just read the last six pages. Does this mean the Jays are no longer a highly watchable and entertaining ball club?

[Schad]

Just read the last six pages. Does this mean the Jays are no longer a highly watchable and entertaining ball club?

We are highly watchable and supremely entertaining. The problem is that we are highly watchable and supremely entertaining both for our fans and those of our opponents.

[C Court]

Just read the last six pages. Does this mean the Jays are no longer a highly watchable and entertaining ball club?

We are highly watchable and supremely entertaining. The problem is that we are highly watchable and supremely entertaining both for our fans and those of our opponents.

Sounds a lot like baseball's version of the Washington Generals. When I was a kid, I was always supremely entertained when the Generals came to town.

[Schad]

Just read the last six pages. Does this mean the Jays are no longer a highly watchable and entertaining ball club?

We are highly watchable and supremely entertaining. The problem is that we are highly watchable and supremely entertaining both for our fans and those of our opponents.

Sounds a lot like baseball's version of the Washington Generals. When I was a kid, I was always supremely entertained when the Generals came to town.

I'd relate us more to a busker who juggles chainsaws. It's exciting when he performs the act flawlessly. It's exciting when he accidentally decapitates a spectator.

[C Court]

We are highly watchable and supremely entertaining. The problem is that we are highly watchable and supremely entertaining both for our fans and those of our opponents.

Sounds a lot like baseball's version of the Washington Generals. When I was a kid, I was always supremely entertained when the Generals came to town.

I'd relate us more to a busker who juggles chainsaws. It's exciting when he performs the act flawlessly. It's exciting when he accidentally decapitates a spectator.

You're right on the analogy. Plus the Generals have better pitching depth than the Jays.

[Michael Bradley]

As tough as this all is i'm taking solace in the fact that the Beeston-Anthopolous-Gibbons trio won't survive another mediocre season. This franchise needs a fresh approach and new faces, people in charge who aren't ruining the team in order to survive another season. Rogers could always screw it up but there are so many smart and innovative GM and President candidates in Baseball right now there's a chance we might luck into someone good. That's a better hope than sticking with mediocrity and people who have committed multiple firing offences.

Agreed. I don't want AA anywhere near this team after what he did from March-onwards with the roster. Beeston is obviously on the way out, and Gibby's future is attached to AA, so yes, the one good thing about being awful this season is that it will facilitate change.

Whether Edward Rogers can actually hire an upgrade is the one thing I'm worried about. Although, I'm less worried about it now than I was in December. Not many GM's can be worse than AA has been the past two months. Ruben Amaro might be the only one.

I want the season to either end with the playoffs or end about as badly as possible. No more in betweens. I have no problem trading every expensive vet while building around Donaldson for another three (preferably more) years. It can be done without a rebuild. The new GM just has to be creative enough to pull it off.

[Sifu]

I give AA credit for getting Travis and Donaldson. Those were really great moves. And he has done well with the farm. But if the measure of success is making the playoffs, he has failed miserably so far, and this year ain't looking any better so far.

AA has been pretty much brutal at managing the big team overall.

[Fairview4Life]

Turns out the Marlins trade really **** us, not necessarily because of the players, but because of the money those players make. Rogers isn't going to put more into pitching, so we're left hoping some Norris, Sanchez, Castro, and Osuna turn up immediately, especially with Stroman hurt. Just annoying that basically every decision around pitching except maybe Osuna (although even then I'd prefer he remain a starter in AA or whatever) has not worked out and essentially every single arm is pitching worse than they ever have in their careers, or are 20 years old.

Still 150 games to go.

[WaltFrazier]

I give AA credit for getting Travis and Donaldson. Those were really great moves. And he has done well with the farm. But if the measure of success is making the playoffs, he has failed miserably so far, and this year ain't looking any better so far.

AA has been pretty much brutal at managing the big team overall.

Yes 2 great moves and signing Martin was good as well. But can the experts here help me understand something - why doesn't AA make a move for a pitcher or 2 right now? Be proactive rather than wait till near the deadline when every other contending team is looking as well. Is it not a good time to make trades, or is it more that Rogers won't spend enough money?

[Michael Bradley]

Yeah the Marlins trade without a serious annual payroll bump was the most pointless and direction-crushing trade the Jays have made in many years. They should have been the ones adding Nelson Cruz and Ervin Santana last off-season when they were available on one year deals. If ownership had no intention of increasing payroll beyond what the backloaded deals called for, then they should have vetoed the trade and AA should have went a different direction. Either AA did not expect payroll to be where it was in 2014/15 or he felt he could win in spite of it. I'm guessing it was the former but it's pointless to assess blame there. He should still have the common sense to make the correct roster decisions.

[BigLeagueChew]

Yes 2 great moves and signing Martin was good as well. But can the experts here help me understand something - why doesn't AA make a move for a pitcher or 2 right now? Be proactive rather than wait till near the deadline when every other contending team is looking as well. Is it not a good time to make trades, or is it more that Rogers won't spend enough money?

Have thought about this more to try and get something out of this season. Generally other teams won't make a big trade right now, would prefer waiting until the deadline. If the Jays want any chance at this season they need to salvage the pitching now. Weather that is from the minors or a few waivers pickups and trades it probably needs to be done now, as we are starting to see.

I tried explaining this yesterday but here is how I see it right now.

Any good to great pitcher we try sign next off season will want to sign for more than 5 years elsewhere. We don't sign deals longer than that. Disadvatange Jays.

We very well could have Aces in Stroman and Hoffman, they are not here and won't help the teams pitching enough to turn this team around until next season.

The only way we are going to get an Ace here is by trade or waiting for Stroman or Hoffman to get here. At the same time, people don't want the farm to be emptied. This is the problem.

[BramptonYute]

Yes 2 great moves and signing Martin was good as well. But can the experts here help me understand something - why doesn't AA make a move for a pitcher or 2 right now? Be proactive rather than wait till near the deadline when every other contending team is looking as well. Is it not a good time to make trades, or is it more that Rogers won't spend enough money?

Have thought about this more to try and get something out of this season. Generally other teams won't make a big trade right now, would prefer waiting until the deadline. If the Jays want any chance at this season they need to salvage the pitching now. Weather that is from the minors or a few waivers pickups and trades it probably needs to be done now, as we are starting to see.

I tried explaining this yesterday but here is how I see it right now.

Any good to great pitcher we try sign next off season will want to sign for more than 5 years elsewhere. We don't sign deals longer than that. Disadvatange Jays.

We very well could have Aces in Stroman and Hoffman, they are not here and won't help the teams pitching enough to turn this team around until next season.

The only way we are going to get an Ace here is by trade or waiting for Stroman or Hoffman to get here. At the same time, people don't want the farm to be emptied. This is the problem.

Its obvious that we need to actually throw money around in FA. We all want to sign good contracts, and not hamper the team in the longterm, but if it helps to bring a WS series win here, it would be worth it. Look at the Mariners and Cano, that is no doubt thats an awful contract, but if the M's win one, just one, world series and Cano is a big part of it, then it would definitely be worth it for them, and I doubt anyone would have regrets. Point is, you're not always going to sign ideal contracts in free agency, but if you actually want to win a WS, more times than not, you're going to have to make big moves, and if you dont want to sell part of the farm, then you have to do it in free agency.

Hopefully the next GM and president can convince rogers to open the wallet more.

[BigLeagueChew]

Its obvious that we need to actually throw money around in FA. We all want to sign good contracts, and not hamper the team in the longterm, but if it helps to bring a WS series win here, it would be worth it. Look at the Mariners and Cano, that is no doubt thats an awful contract, but if the M's win one, just one, world series and Cano is a big part of it, then it would definitely be worth it for them, and I doubt anyone would have regrets. Point is, you're not always going to sign ideal contracts in free agency, but if you actually want to win a WS, more times than not, you're going to have to make big moves, and if you dont want to sell part of the farm, then you have to do it in free agency.

Hopefully the next GM and president can convince rogers to open the wallet more.

We would have money to spend next year with AA here or any GM. Buerhle $20m/per year gone, romero 7.7M gone, navarro 5m gone,estrada 3.9 gone.

I guess it comes down to us having to wait until next year again or making a trade this season.

The Donaldson trade was big, but we didn't empty the farm for him and still acquired a great player. To expand on that, If we can't sign pitchers or any player for more than 5 years, we have to to keep trading for them like we have been, with the exception of Russell Martin.

[Nights King]

As tough as this all is i'm taking solace in the fact that the Beeston-Anthopolous-Gibbons trio won't survive another mediocre season. This franchise needs a fresh approach and new faces, people in charge who aren't ruining the team in order to survive another season. Rogers could always screw it up but there are so many smart and innovative GM and President candidates in Baseball right now there's a chance we might luck into someone good. That's a better hope than sticking with mediocrity and people who have committed multiple firing offences.

You a fan of Duquette? Because I think it's pretty safe to say they'll be targeting him again based on last offseason. I just hope Ed Rogers doesn't give up a top prospect for him.

Yeah i do like Duquette. He's made his share of mistakes but he's done well given the resources at his disposal and the constant meddling of the Angelos. Alex on the other might not have been given a gigantic payroll but he and Beeston were given a lot of freedom with no evidence of interference from ownership.