OT: Shooting Mechanics - "The Sweep & Sway"

[Undefeated]

So I recently came across an argument with an NBA shooting coach (hint: one of his project is working with "Baby Rondo") who believes the "sweep and sway" should not be promoted because it creates excess body movement leading to shooting inaccuracy since the body is moving away from the target as the shoulders sway back. His method for teaching players is that players should always be under control when shooting eliminating any wasted movement and stability in the legs is a huge key to his teachings. Because the "sweep and sway" encourages players to sweep forward when they first sway their shoulders they lose that stability as they land on one foot. By stability he teaches his players to get their feet up and down in the same spot on the floor - landing in the same spot/position.

My argument why players shoulder "sweep and sway" when they shoot was that it is more comfortable and produces a more natural movement pattern by leading the ball with one arm; it's like when you throw a jab/punch you stagger your feet with one in front and one behind to generate maximum torque on your swing and more natural than "squaring up" or staying compact. He argues it's necessary to sway on deep shots beyond the 3-point line, but anything inside the arc will cause extra rotation/back spin and lead to the shot missing long. But by shooting straight up and down, the shot would be rigid and have a flatter trajectory from anywhere on the floor. I just think it's easier for players to adjust their shot whether that be the distance or arc with the "sweep and sway".

There isn't any universal "correct" shooting techniques per se although this is what many skill instructors and shooting coaches often relay to the players because it's what's been taught to them despite very few professional players adopt these shooting mechanics. So wouldn't it make sense to teach players what the players are actually doing?

Curious to hear your guys thoughts on this discussion.

[notic101]

As a broad generalization he is correct, and this is how a majority of the players in the NBA have learned and been instructed on how to shoot. And some pros have maintained those principles and have become very productive NBA players with long careers because of it (Paxson, Kerr, Steve Smith, Kyle Korver, the list is endless..)

However, the great ones in this league have mastered taking on balance shots as well as what normally would be off-balance shots according to then rules of perfect shot mechanics (Dirk back foot fade, Jordans perfect turnaround fade, Durant and Kobe, and even guys like Reggie, Ray Allen and Steph Curry...)

There are plenty of roads to Rome, but especially in the NBA when the athleticism of defenders is elite, length and strengh of both offensive and defensive players are elite these mechanism are borne out of necessity and deservedly become efficient shots when taken by the right performer.

[720]

I personally believe that there is a science behind motion/movement and if players did their research and practiced with that in mind not only would we get rid of unnecessary body motion but also lower chances of injuries. I forgot where but I remember reading something about how the way Lebron lands after layups/dunks and rebounds tremendously lowers the chance of him getting leg injuries. In that same reading he was compared to Derrick Roses movements and his reckless style of play was the opposite of what Lebron was doing.

[move_ball]

Derrick Rose almost universally shoots well when he executes a good sweep/sway or hop/sway, and really struggles when he shoots up & down in a static spot on the floor.

Coach Nick from bballbreakdown has documented this phenomenon all year when he breaks down Bulls games on youtube.

Kyle Korver, OTOH, is an example of a guy whose mechanics are contingent on where the defender is, where he is on the floor, where the pass arrives, etc.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Undefeated]

I'd argue that very few pros actually adhere to the shooting mechanics that many youths are being taught; squaring the feet, shooting straight up and down, etc. If they do, they're most likely to be poor shooters. Watching the best shooters you can clearly see their feet sweep forward (where they start behind the line and land inside or on the line):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJH8O3Zzl-s[/youtube]

If the best shooters are doing this, it would make sense for them to replicate this than just adhering to the mechanics that seldom is used by any pro.

[vincecarter55]

I'd argue that very few pros actually adhere to the shooting mechanics that many youths are being taught; squaring the feet, shooting straight up and down, etc. If they do, they're most likely to be poor shooters. Watching the best shooters you can clearly see their feet sweep forward (where they start behind the line and land inside or on the line):

If the best shooters are doing this, it would make sense for them to replicate this than just adhering to the mechanics that seldom is used by any pro.

Interesting. How would you teach shooting then? Isn't it more of a jump forward then a 'sweep' when watching Korver and Klay?

[JWiLL02]

As someone who's always been one of the better shooters when I play, I can't really agree with going straight up and down...it's not quite natural.

Similar to the video posted above, when I shoot 3s I have very little vertical and my feet land a bit forward from where I took off. Klay and Korver are the same...the difference between them being that Korver has a bit more vert and motion in his shot up top. Other than that they have they're very similar.

[raptor jesus]

I'd argue that very few pros actually adhere to the shooting mechanics that many youths are being taught; squaring the feet, shooting straight up and down, etc. If they do, they're most likely to be poor shooters. Watching the best shooters you can clearly see their feet sweep forward (where they start behind the line and land inside or on the line):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJH8O3Zzl-s[/youtube]

If the best shooters are doing this, it would make sense for them to replicate this than just adhering to the mechanics that seldom is used by any pro.

What's interesting is even the best shooters aren't totally aware of the way they shoot. For example, Curry has admitted that he doesn't dip and that he shoots square to the basket, when in reality he dips and turns during his shot.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgeAA0b8siQ&spfreload=10[/youtube]

[Throwback24]

Would you say Lou sweeps and sways?

[Financials]

Would you say Lou sweeps and sways?

When Lou sways, we get swept.

[move_ball]

Would you say Lou sweeps and sways?

Lou likes to shoot off the dribble so he usually does the 1-2 (footwork) with a slight sway.

[timdunkit]

It really depends on the person and what they are comfortable with. I think the sweep and sway is a natural feel off a standstill jumper but may be a little awkward when trying to pull-up. Standstill is probably easier to execute consistently but there is tension in your shoulder and you usually get more range with the sweep & sway (just from personally experience).

[Highflyerwire]

I believe the sweep and sway is necessary for most players to extend their range, yes, but an excessive JUMP (or, sweep?) should definitely not be encouraged. Sometimes you need a little extra power to make those long balls without feeling you've changed your shot entirely. BUT, the same can be said about fades and off-balanced shots. What's most important is that you maintain a consistent release and rhythm. As far as beginner basketball goes I don't believe it's something that should be taught, but something that you advance to... Like a turn around jumper!

Being a good basketball player is a lot about adapting, so, doing the same thing for different situations just wouldn't be smart. Coaches might not want to teach it because they can't make those shots themselves or because it's more dangerous in a practice scenario to shoot off balance.

SO he's not really wrong in suggesting to shoot straight up and down, but discouraging adaptability in one of the most complex sports and competitive leagues in the world definitely isn't right...

[Yeezus]

So hows Derozans ugly ass jumpshot applies to this? Lol

[NeoDragonKnight]

I agree that in principle, the best way to shoot is to make it compact and little unnecessary movement. Dell Curry had one of the most compact shots I have ever seen, he barely bent his knees, raised the ball up quickly and let it fly with a flick of his wrist. He was always able to get a shot up and have a really good chance to get it in. But every player needs to feel comfortable, sometimes those extra movements as you said creates a flow or rhythm to their shot that they need.

[joseph227]

So hows Derozans ugly ass jumpshot applies to this? Lol

He's more the "chuck and pray" kinda guy.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Interesting UD, rudimentary googling seems to be alot from ProShotShootingSystem.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXSTDDr6y8w[/youtube]

I dont really have much of an opinion right now, ill hit up your PM if I find anything interesting or bump the thread. Love this stuff. As an aside I wonder if I can dig up anything about the "sport science" ish stuff about it, in terms of effort exerted/efficiency/etc.. vs up and down form, could go a long way to settling some of the debate.

[Undefeated]

Yes, most of the methods I used are borrowed from the ProShot Shooting System that I learned 4 years ago. Introduced it to a few posters here that were reluctant and hesitant at first but once they got a deeper understanding behind his method they bought in. A lot of shooting coaches are aware of this as well like Dave Hopla and Adam Filippi but they seem to reject what he teaches.

[Volcano]

So hows Derozans ugly ass jumpshot applies to this? Lol

He's more the "chuck and pray" kinda guy.

Been waiting for him to improve his mechanics since rookie season. It's clearly not working..why does he keep sticking to it? Think of the hours he's wasted trying to perfect a broken jumper.

[ruckus]

So hows Derozans ugly ass jumpshot applies to this? Lol

He's more the "chuck and pray" kinda guy.

Been waiting for him to improve his mechanics since rookie season. It's clearly not working..why does he keep sticking to it? Think of the hours he's wasted trying to perfect a broken jumper.

It's positive reinforcement. If you shoot the same jumper for years on end without anyone trying to correct you on it and, you achieve a modicum of success with those shooting mechanics, it will be extremely difficult to adjust. Even if you do work on it, the first time you encounter any hitches with the new mechanic, you'll revert to the old shooting style.

Anyways, I've found that no 2 shooting strokes are alike. I'm not sure why that is but, I suspect a lot of it has to do with when you start playing ball. When a kid first starts playing basketball, they don't have the power or coordination to shoot the ball in a traditional sense. You'll see that when you watch kids playing basketball, most of their shots are heaves even when under the basket because they don't have the power to get the ball 10 feet up in the air. Continuously doing that creates bad habits.

Back to the topic, there are 3 key components (in a very general sense) of a basketball shot - power, accuracy and speed. And those 3 components are generally a trade-off. It's like the quality triangle. If you want it cheap and fast, you'll sacrifice quality. If you want it cheap and good quality, you'll sacrifice delivery time. If you want it fast and good quality, you'll pay more for it.

If I understand the sweep and sway technique correctly, it helps to generate power while maintaining a modicum of accuracy. You sacrifice speed in terms of getting the shot off but, it helps in the sense that it pulls you slightly closer to the defender increasing the chance of getting fouled. Personally, I was raised using the set shot. You set your feet, bend your knees, square up your shoulders, tuck in your elbows, guide with your off hand and flick your wrist. However, Shawn Marion with his atrocity of a jumpshot has proved that there is no right way to shoot a basketball.