SOTD: Amir drops from 30th to 89th in Defensive real plus minus

[Kabookalu]

I don't think it's the years of covering up for the team's past lack of defenders that's destroyed his ankles, but stubbornly playing him when he's clearly been hurt already. I remember one game where Amir injured his ankle, was rolling on the floor, he needed to get off the floor, and the play continued on for 3 more possessions! Amir was limping his way down the court, grimacing, clearly in pain, and we ignored that and continued playing. Everyone was LIVID at Casey for not calling a timeout. There have been other episodes like this that weren't as extreme.

Casey might have destroyed probably our best defensive anchor of all time because of his complete negligence of our players' health. I fear that the same is already happening with Kyle Lowry.

[OakleyDokely]

It's hard to really evaluate the frontcourt when you have a coach who creates a defensive plan around the belief that everyone plays like Tyson Chandler.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

Absolutely incredible dwane rarely gets criticized for this. I've been bringing up amir's injuries from the past sustained in meaningless games, while totally disrupting our defence by upgrading it from fairly awful to pretty awesome. (Disrupting our awful defence that helped us tank, that is). Now his career, and first opportunity to get a nice contract have been diminished. I wouldn't even be surprised if he got well over 10 million if he had a near career year this year.

Not to mention it could've helped our playoff hopes if lowry was playing great, and that foul troll didn't suck at scoring in the playoffs.

[RandomRaptorfan]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

I'm bleeding all over my keyboard from the old wound you just reopened. Thanks

[Potential]

Amir Johnson finishes the regular season averaging 8.3 falls per game. That is an NBA record. (via @eliassports)

[bonbons]

I still believe in my original post at the beginning of this season, we are garbage without Amir, and we should have traded Demar or Ross for a better pf.

Now that we suck again, it doesn't really matter anymore. We should sign him, keep him. Even overpaying for a couple of years should be fine, it'll help us tank.

[Dan2087]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

Wow I didn't even know this. I thought it was just a coin toss we lost. Just when I thought I've heard it all about how cursed this team is. ....

[TDotsfinest97]

only the raps are dumb enough to not go 0-14 in april when the season is already lost, can't even tank at the right time, instead they tank in the playoffs

[RedX]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

I hate to point out the obvious here, but I do hate it when "winning culture" takes on a negative connotation. Obviously, acquiring a winning culture is the whole point here. Isn't that our goal as fans? I mean, we all want a championship (or a dynasty), but that's the ultimate example of a winning culture.

Let's face it - if the Raps win a ring it won't really change anyone's lives on this board. We spend 1000's of hours of our lives talking about the team, complaining about the problems, hoping for the future. Why do we really want a championship? Because it creates a winning culture to a franchise. It gives fans of teams like the Pistons and Mavericks a sense of accomplishment that can't be taken away. Creating a "winning culture" is not only what leads to championships, it's what championships create.

Winning some meaningless games in April that year was obviously pointless probably didn't really do much to add to a winning culture. In fact, let's not forget how much the team still dogged it down that stretch. The final game of the season that year during the nets (the infamous Uzoh triple double and Alabi double double) was still the worst professional sports game I've ever seen, and was a case of two teams clearly trying to out-tank each other. There was no winning culture built that year - that was just a matter of our players/coach having a bit more dignity than the competition. In fact, let's not forget that the last few months of the season, New Orleans got Eric Gordon back and had their best couple months of the season to close it out (don't have the numbers, just going from memory here).

I just hate hearing the words "winning culture" used as some sort of defamatory phrase when it's clearly what we want as a franchise. Whether or not that helped achieve it is beside the point. Saying that we shouldn't strive for a winning culture because it backfired is like saying "the last three job interviews I went to I was wearing pants and didn't get the job, so clearly wearing pants to a job interview is pointless."

It's kind of like when people here complain that Casey values "spacing" - um yeah, every coach in the league values spacing. It doesn't make it right or wrong that he starts Ross, but let's not act like spacing and a winning culture are bad words.

I think developing a winning culture is pointless when you're at the bottom of the league. At that point you need to lose and get the best draft spot if you want winning culture, not win. As a franchise, I can remember two drafts that we simply didn't do this job properly and it cost us dearly. It cost us a 'winning culture' by keeping us locked in the lower 1/3 of the league with picks from 5-8+ on a consistent basis.

[cammac]

It is a shame for Amir to leave like this but he also himself a disservice by not having surgery in the offseason. It would have helped him stabilize the problem but he gambled on his health because it was a contract year. Feel badly about him would sign him to a modest contract but because of our cap situation its unlikely. If we could move Patterson for cap would want him as a back-up to a starting PF at 4 million.

[MVP-]

I don't think it's the years of covering up for the team's past lack of defenders that's destroyed his ankles, but stubbornly playing him when he's clearly been hurt already. I remember one game where Amir injured his ankle, was rolling on the floor, he needed to get off the floor, and the play continued on for 3 more possessions! Amir was limping his way down the court, grimacing, clearly in pain, and we ignored that and continued playing. Everyone was LIVID at Casey for not calling a timeout. There have been other episodes like this that weren't as extreme.

Casey might have destroyed probably our best defensive anchor of all time because of his complete negligence of our players' health. I fear that the same is already happening with Kyle Lowry.

Kyle Lowry is simply a fatass diva. No comparison tbh.

[Schad]

I hate to point out the obvious here, but I do hate it when "winning culture" takes on a negative connotation. Obviously, acquiring a winning culture is the whole point here. Isn't that our goal as fans? I mean, we all want a championship (or a dynasty), but that's the ultimate example of a winning culture.

People around here generally equate 'winning culture' to an attempt to win every game, never tank, etc, and build a long-term contender on the shared memories of hard-fought April wins in lost seasons.

Unfortunately, our winning culture just got crushed by a team that didn't clear 30 wins for five consecutive seasons and nakedly tanked on multiple occasions, thanks largely to a young trio of talents taken with top three picks.

[Boogie!]

I hate to point out the obvious here, but I do hate it when "winning culture" takes on a negative connotation. Obviously, acquiring a winning culture is the whole point here. Isn't that our goal as fans? I mean, we all want a championship (or a dynasty), but that's the ultimate example of a winning culture.

People around here generally equate 'winning culture' to an attempt to win every game, never tank, etc, and build a long-term contender on the shared memories of hard-fought April wins in lost seasons.

Unfortunately, our winning culture just got crushed by a team that didn't clear 30 wins for five consecutive seasons and nakedly tanked on multiple occasions, thanks largely to a young trio of talents taken with top three picks.

OT, but they should fire casey just for that quote in your signature…

[Darknemo2000]

Ross is 468 wow. Just wow. He is even more horrible than GV...

[vini_vidi_vici]

Its so weird reading this forum, the things DC gets blamed for, but I digress.

We know about the DRTG, and you guys are talking about the DRPM. Heres something else DFG% differential.

The team as a whole dropped from 11th (-0.4) last year, to 27th (+1.3) this year.

Last year


This year


And really, it wasnt just an Amir issue, everyone was worse except KL. And alot of it by substantial margins too.

I havent looked but id be willing to bet some drops are even more pronounced than Amirs (year to year) in DRPM too, and some just stayed bad looking over tDRTGs on/off court.

And if you werent nauseated already, heres the PO #s. Atleast TR was very good.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

I hate to point out the obvious here, but I do hate it when "winning culture" takes on a negative connotation. Obviously, acquiring a winning culture is the whole point here. Isn't that our goal as fans? I mean, we all want a championship (or a dynasty), but that's the ultimate example of a winning culture.

Let's face it - if the Raps win a ring it won't really change anyone's lives on this board. We spend 1000's of hours of our lives talking about the team, complaining about the problems, hoping for the future. Why do we really want a championship? Because it creates a winning culture to a franchise. It gives fans of teams like the Pistons and Mavericks a sense of accomplishment that can't be taken away. Creating a "winning culture" is not only what leads to championships, it's what championships create.

Winning some meaningless games in April that year was obviously pointless probably didn't really do much to add to a winning culture. In fact, let's not forget how much the team still dogged it down that stretch. The final game of the season that year during the nets (the infamous Uzoh triple double and Alabi double double) was still the worst professional sports game I've ever seen, and was a case of two teams clearly trying to out-tank each other. There was no winning culture built that year - that was just a matter of our players/coach having a bit more dignity than the competition. In fact, let's not forget that the last few months of the season, New Orleans got Eric Gordon back and had their best couple months of the season to close it out (don't have the numbers, just going from memory here).

I just hate hearing the words "winning culture" used as some sort of defamatory phrase when it's clearly what we want as a franchise. Whether or not that helped achieve it is beside the point. Saying that we shouldn't strive for a winning culture because it backfired is like saying "the last three job interviews I went to I was wearing pants and didn't get the job, so clearly wearing pants to a job interview is pointless."

It's kind of like when people here complain that Casey values "spacing" - um yeah, every coach in the league values spacing. It doesn't make it right or wrong that he starts Ross, but let's not act like spacing and a winning culture are bad words.

A "winning culture" is really overrated. It's important, don't get me wrong. But it only matters when you have actual talent worth a damn that might suffer under too many loses. Cleveland, prior to getting Lebron back, was pretty much a joke. Looking at how Kyrie has grown with Lebron (and even with the Love related issues) is a great example of what a winning culture (cf. Blatt on this point too, despite his issues) can to for a team. If your entire team is largely ****, though, a winning culture is worthless. One, you're not actually winning in any meaningful sense (since, again, the team is ****); you're just losing at a less embarrassing rate, which in some ways is worse since you can't even shoot for young talent.

People overrate tanking because to suck you generally have to dig yourself into such a hole that it's hard to get out. But when the season is pretty much lost (because you're at best an 8-10th seed in the joke conference when more or less healthy), winning games is the last thing you want to do from a growth perspective.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think it's meaningless, but a winning culture provides a great landing point for talent. Atlanta, Chicago, Houston are great examples of recent teams that have prioritized winning over strategic losing and all are still competing in the playoffs right now. This argument never goes anywhere. There's multiple ways to win in this league. One way comes from losing intentionally. No way is proven to be the most successful, other than maybe getting the best player in the league via free agency/trade demand.

[Indeed]

I don't think it's meaningless, but a winning culture provides a great landing point for talent. Atlanta, Chicago, Houston are great examples of recent teams that have prioritized winning over strategic losing and all are still competing in the playoffs right now. This argument never goes anywhere. There's multiple ways to win in this league. One way comes from losing intentionally. No way is proven to be the most successful, other than maybe getting the best player in the league via free agency/trade demand.

I disagree they are prioritized winning. Going into the playoffs, Chicago prioritized seeding ahead of winning.
Meanwhile, there are more reasons for FA or players to enjoy playing, freedom is one big thing.

[firekil]

Let us flashback to April 2012, when Amir played 22 minutes per meaningless game despite being visibly hobbled with fairly serious injuries, some of which dog him to this day.

By the way, The Raptors went 6-8 that April, their best month of the season.

They then drafted Terrence Ross 8th, while New Orleans -- who lost two more games than the Raptors -- won the lottery and drafted Anthony Davis.

At least we have our winning culture. And Ross!

This post breaks my heart so hard.

[orbesnet]

I have a ton of respect for Amir, guy never complains, never says anything bad about anyone and has a lot of love for his Toronto fans... as a player we saw him at his best and sadly this season wasn't it. It does seem like he's developed the ability to score unthinkable curl/hook shots around the basket at will but without his toughness on D we can't really keep him in the same roll going forward.

For what it's worth, on this ever-spiraling pile of dog-sh*t we call a franchise Amir is a patron saint. I'd be happy to see him coming off the bench for years to come.