Moderators: JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben, fatlever
jdm3 wrote:Yeah and Clifford was a top ten coach last year. These things tend to be wrong quite often. He ranks in the bottom half in my book and was the wrong hire out of the guys we brought in here.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
jdm3 wrote:Maybe because he is good friends with a player on our team and we had a better opportunity to start at OT where he could earn more money long term. Gettleman developed a bad reputation in his dealing with Smith, Gross and a few of the others and it costs us. We were a better option and should have had an inside track here and yet Gettleman screwed it up.
jdm3 wrote:To answer your question we need to make the playoffs and have back to back winning seasons. Winning the division is a year that was historically bad is not a big accomplishment.
Liver_Pooty wrote:jdm3 wrote:Yeah and Clifford was a top ten coach last year. These things tend to be wrong quite often. He ranks in the bottom half in my book and was the wrong hire out of the guys we brought in here.
Hes drafted pretty well, and is slowly but surely cleaning up our cap mess.
More importantly he is 19-12-1 since he took over the front office position. I'll take that.
yosemiteben wrote:jdm3 wrote:Maybe because he is good friends with a player on our team and we had a better opportunity to start at OT where he could earn more money long term. Gettleman developed a bad reputation in his dealing with Smith, Gross and a few of the others and it costs us. We were a better option and should have had an inside track here and yet Gettleman screwed it up.
That sounds like desperation to blame someone. Lots of guys have friends on lots of teams, that rarely sways FA decisions (which I guess this is more like a FA than a draft one).
Gross was going to retire anyway. Smith was going to retire. Both are on record as saying that, and both were dealt with before their deals ended (meaning it wasn't because they didn't want to work out a deal with GMan). Players don't interact with GMs unless they are negotiating new deals, and given the history of this franchise I don't really mind him being an ahole when it comes to negotiating fair deals.jdm3 wrote:To answer your question we need to make the playoffs and have back to back winning seasons. Winning the division is a year that was historically bad is not a big accomplishment.
Fair enough, so he barely missed back to back winning seasons this year, and back to back to back NFCS championships isn't good enough. That's fair, just trying to make sure I understand the boundaries. I feel confident that we are headed in the right direction, and if we can't manage back to back winning seasons then I would agree that is a problem.
And I completely agree with JDR, I think you are hugely exaggerating the impact of the personality of the GM on a FA's decision to come or a current player's decision to stay.
jdm3 wrote:yosemiteben wrote:jdm3 wrote:Maybe because he is good friends with a player on our team and we had a better opportunity to start at OT where he could earn more money long term. Gettleman developed a bad reputation in his dealing with Smith, Gross and a few of the others and it costs us. We were a better option and should have had an inside track here and yet Gettleman screwed it up.
That sounds like desperation to blame someone. Lots of guys have friends on lots of teams, that rarely sways FA decisions (which I guess this is more like a FA than a draft one).
Gross was going to retire anyway. Smith was going to retire. Both are on record as saying that, and both were dealt with before their deals ended (meaning it wasn't because they didn't want to work out a deal with GMan). Players don't interact with GMs unless they are negotiating new deals, and given the history of this franchise I don't really mind him being an ahole when it comes to negotiating fair deals.jdm3 wrote:To answer your question we need to make the playoffs and have back to back winning seasons. Winning the division is a year that was historically bad is not a big accomplishment.
Fair enough, so he barely missed back to back winning seasons this year, and back to back to back NFCS championships isn't good enough. That's fair, just trying to make sure I understand the boundaries. I feel confident that we are headed in the right direction, and if we can't manage back to back winning seasons then I would agree that is a problem.
And I completely agree with JDR, I think you are hugely exaggerating the impact of the personality of the GM on a FA's decision to come or a current player's decision to stay.
Gross was not going to retire according to everyone who ever talked about his retirement on the radio here. They all said how he talked about playing a couple more season until he had to deal with Gettleman. Smith being cut was not the issue but the piss poor way Gettleman handled it left a sour taste in plenty of peoples mouths. I do not understand where you are getting any of your information because it is the exact opposite of what was stated. So it does matter and he is screwing this team over while people defend his obvious stupidity.
He is sinking our ship and too many people are smiling while it goes down.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
Liver_Pooty wrote:jdm3 wrote:yosemiteben wrote:That sounds like desperation to blame someone. Lots of guys have friends on lots of teams, that rarely sways FA decisions (which I guess this is more like a FA than a draft one).
Gross was going to retire anyway. Smith was going to retire. Both are on record as saying that, and both were dealt with before their deals ended (meaning it wasn't because they didn't want to work out a deal with GMan). Players don't interact with GMs unless they are negotiating new deals, and given the history of this franchise I don't really mind him being an ahole when it comes to negotiating fair deals.
Fair enough, so he barely missed back to back winning seasons this year, and back to back to back NFCS championships isn't good enough. That's fair, just trying to make sure I understand the boundaries. I feel confident that we are headed in the right direction, and if we can't manage back to back winning seasons then I would agree that is a problem.
And I completely agree with JDR, I think you are hugely exaggerating the impact of the personality of the GM on a FA's decision to come or a current player's decision to stay.
Gross was not going to retire according to everyone who ever talked about his retirement on the radio here. They all said how he talked about playing a couple more season until he had to deal with Gettleman. Smith being cut was not the issue but the piss poor way Gettleman handled it left a sour taste in plenty of peoples mouths. I do not understand where you are getting any of your information because it is the exact opposite of what was stated. So it does matter and he is screwing this team over while people defend his obvious stupidity.
He is sinking our ship and too many people are smiling while it goes down.
Didn't his contract expire at the end of 2013? If he didn't want to deal with Gettleman he could have easily went and played for another team and made a cool 9 million or so. After reading this article I doubt Gettleman had much or anything to do with his retiring
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/29/jordan-gr ... -panthers/
jdm3 wrote:I do not understand where you are getting any of your information because it is the exact opposite of what was stated.
jdm3 wrote:He is sinking our ship and too many people are smiling while it goes down.
yosemiteben wrote:jdm3 wrote:I do not understand where you are getting any of your information because it is the exact opposite of what was stated.
Gross: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/29/jordan-gross-weight-retirement-panthers/
Smitty: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24581915/steve-smith-was-going-to-retire-after-2014-before-panthers-release
Gross had just restructured his deal the year before. Why would he do that, play a year and then retire if it was GMan's fault?
This was when Gross had to deal with Gettleman and soured on the man. When he did this restructure his attitude toward playing here more years started to change.jdm3 wrote:He is sinking our ship and too many people are smiling while it goes down.
Smitty and Gross were not the future of this franchise. I'll grow concerned when a core piece that is below the age of 33 leaves.
Such a short sited view. I don't think either was the future but being a POS to them both was just stupid. There is absolutely no other way to describe it.
mattcampbell wrote:Gettleman has done a fine job since he has been here. At least give the guy more than 2 years of trying to clean everything up before saying he's running our ship into the ground.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
jdm3 wrote:So when we massively overpay to keep guys who are younger stars will you admit he screwed up?
yosemiteben wrote:jdm3 wrote:So when we massively overpay to keep guys who are younger stars will you admit he screwed up?
Even if Getts would overpay, it would be no different than what we got from Hurney anyway except that Getts is far better at talent evaluation and cap management.
For all the good old boy Hurney was, all it did was put us in an impossible cap situation without ever managing consecutive winning seasons, division title or playoff appearances.
Snidely FC wrote:I should probably know this by now, but is there a way to embed a video, say from draftexpress for example, that isn't available on youtube?
fatlever wrote:Russell Wilson is seeking a contract of 4 years, 120 mil, Seahawks offering something closer to 80 mil. How do you even begin to build a competitive team, long-term, when you have one player eating up that much of your cap space?
What happens when Cam asks for a deal around 30 mil per season?
jdm3 wrote:fatlever wrote:Russell Wilson is seeking a contract of 4 years, 120 mil, Seahawks offering something closer to 80 mil. How do you even begin to build a competitive team, long-term, when you have one player eating up that much of your cap space?
What happens when Cam asks for a deal around 30 mil per season?
He is trying to massively make up the difference in his first contract vs being a top five pick.
fatlever wrote:jdm3 wrote:fatlever wrote:Russell Wilson is seeking a contract of 4 years, 120 mil, Seahawks offering something closer to 80 mil. How do you even begin to build a competitive team, long-term, when you have one player eating up that much of your cap space?
What happens when Cam asks for a deal around 30 mil per season?
He is trying to massively make up the difference in his first contract vs being a top five pick.
doesnt matter why he is asking for that much. if he gets anything close to it, it will set the market for all the other (next tier) QBs like Cam. Cam's agent isn't going to ask for less and say "Hey, we know Wilson got 30 mil, but we'll take 20 mil because we know that Russ was just getting extra because he was underpaid for so long".
jdm3 wrote:fatlever wrote:jdm3 wrote:He is trying to massively make up the difference in his first contract vs being a top five pick.
doesnt matter why he is asking for that much. if he gets anything close to it, it will set the market for all the other (next tier) QBs like Cam. Cam's agent isn't going to ask for less and say "Hey, we know Wilson got 30 mil, but we'll take 20 mil because we know that Russ was just getting extra because he was underpaid for so long".
I do not disagree. I was just pointing out what I think he is doing. If I were Cam they would have to pay me a ton to stick around.
fatlever wrote:Russell Wilson is seeking a contract of 4 years, 120 mil, Seahawks offering something closer to 80 mil. How do you even begin to build a competitive team, long-term, when you have one player eating up that much of your cap space?
What happens when Cam asks for a deal around 30 mil per season?
