Pillar (Happ) v Saunders

bluerap23 · Post #1 » by **bluerap23** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:17 am

Right now I think I'd rather have J.A. Happ over Saunders. Pillar is proving to be a quality big leaguer. Saunders is proving to still be as injury prone as ever. Happ would have been a solid 5th starter, with Sanchez really solidifying the bullpen.

Randle McMurphy · Post #2 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:25 am

No, Saunders is better than Pillar. They'll need his LH bat.

Post #3 » by **Schad** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:03 am

Good with the trade. Also, if Pillar proves useful-to-good on a consistent basis, we always have the option of getting both of them into the lineup by rotating through the DH spot. Having 4 good outfielders, including three capable of playing center, is never a bad thing.

Post #4 » by **Duffman100** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:02 pm

Yeah, I'm still happy. Pillar isn't going to keep hitting at this rate and with his inability to take walks, you'll see his value drop. Still love his defense, so yeah...good to have him as a 4th OF/DH spot. Let's us ease Saunders back in.

dagger · Post #5 » by **dagger** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:16 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Good with the trade. Also, if Pillar proves useful-to-good on a consistent basis, we always have the option of getting both of them into the lineup by rotating through the DH spot. Having 4 good outfielders, including three capable of playing center, is never a bad thing.

So long as we can trade Buehrle's private catcher for some kind of relief help. Otherwise, Navarro will be placated by Gibbons with a lot of DH games.

Santoki · Post #6 » by **Santoki** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:32 pm

Please stop making threads like this 10 days into the season. I'm obviously happy with the start Pillar has had, but it's mid-April.

Skin Blues · Post #7 » by **Skin Blues** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:57 pm

Saunders >> Happ

Sure, right now we're doing OK with Pillar, but I don't trust Pompey to be an MLB calibre hitter, and what do we do when we have more injury problems? Pillar is an excellent 4th OF that can even play a little more than a usual 4th if Pompey struggles.

Michael Bradley · Post #8 » by **Michael Bradley** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:52 pm

The trade is/was fine. If Pillar turns out to be better than expected, then it's a great problem to have.

The problem was not trading Happ; it was not replacing him.

bluerap23 · Post #9 » by **bluerap23** » Sun May 10, 2015 3:22 pm

How 'bout now?

Santoki · Post #10 » by **Santoki** » Sun May 10, 2015 4:28 pm

bluerap23 wrote:How 'bout now?

I'm not and wasn't a huge fan of that trade either but you're being annoying now.

Randle McMurphy · Post #11 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sun May 10, 2015 5:36 pm

bluerap23 wrote:How 'bout now?

Our OF situation is currently Pillar/Carrera/Colabello/Goins/Tolleson/Valencia. Yeah, I think we could have made good use of a healthy Saunders. Unfortunately, he's just not right now.

bluerap23 · Post #12 » by **bluerap23** » Mon May 11, 2015 4:21 pm

The point is more about the strength of our teams pitching.
Happ was not a huge asset, but he has proven to be a dependable contributor. Toronto pitching ranks close to last in almost every category. I just think we needed the depth in the rotation, more than in the OF, especially given Sauder's health history and the fact he is moving to a terrible playing surface where injuries are more likely (I know this one happened in ST) and slower to heal.

It is annoying to say I told you so, but Saunders has proven my point.

rarefind · Post #13 » by **rarefind** » Mon May 11, 2015 4:58 pm

bluerap23 wrote:The point is more about the strength of our teams pitching.
Happ was not a huge asset, but he has proven to be a dependable contributor. Toronto pitching ranks close to last in almost every category. I just think we needed the depth in the rotation, more than in the OF, especially given Sauder's health history and the fact he is moving to a terrible playing surface where injuries are more likely (I know this one happened in ST) and slower to heal.

It is annoying to say I told you so, but Saunders has proven my point.

By tripping over a sprinkler? Hindsight is a pretty good tool to possess.

Fairview4Life · Post #14 » by **Fairview4Life** » Mon May 11, 2015 5:34 pm

bluerap23 wrote:It is annoying to say I told you so,

Yup.

Michael Bradley · Post #15 » by **Michael Bradley** » Mon May 11, 2015 7:28 pm

Well, I would have rather kept Happ and signed Aoki if I had known the Jays were not going to acquire someone to replace Happ, but the trade itself was fine. Saunders getting a freak injury was not something that was expected, even with his previous history. Just bad luck.

Ku-Bar · Post #16 » by **Ku-Bar** » Wed May 20, 2015 2:05 pm

Boy that Happ trade really stings as the season goes on. Gibbon's would say "that's baseball" but I still don't understand the move to this day. I always liked him as a 5th starter, liked his competitiveness when John threatened to have him out of the bullpen he competed and proved he is at least a reliable back of the rotation kind of guy. I guess being in that AL West ball park is helping him as he is 3-1 with a < 3.00 ERA. Nelson Cruz is playing like an MVP, they have Robinson Cano and all they have to show for it is 17 wins, less than the lowly Blue Jays. "That's baseball"

CrookedJ · Post #17 » by **CrookedJ** » Wed May 20, 2015 7:10 pm

Happ was always a fly ball pitcher, his Fb/HR % is a career low so far at is 8.9....... last season was 11.5%

4 homes games / 3 road ( Oak, Tex, Houston) so of his 7 starts, 5 are in pitchers parks, two in hr parks.

That has already saved him more than one home run so far.

His xFIP is 3.58 / while his ERA is 2.98.

Hard to say if his rate is sustainable in that park or not. Was just kind of curious how much of a difference it makes.

Lets also keep in mind that Stroman was still healthy when this trade was made and it was going to be Sanchez vs. Norris for the 5th starting gig, with the other as the fall back....Not both of them starting, and Norris failing and us being stuck with Estrada.

The bigger disappointment is Saunders has been so useless that it feels like it was Happ for nothing. I like a Happ a lot more than nothing too.

Wow...random stat. Sanchez, Buerhle, Dickey and Estrada all have HR/FB rates over 15%.

bluerap23 · Post #18 » by **bluerap23** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:19 pm

rarefind wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:The point is more about the strength of our teams pitching.
Happ was not a huge asset, but he has proven to be a dependable contributor. Toronto pitching ranks close to last in almost every category. I just think we needed the depth in the rotation, more than in the OF, especially given Sauder's health history and the fact he is moving to a terrible playing surface where injuries are more likely (I know this one happened in ST) and slower to heal.

It is annoying to say I told you so, but Saunders has proven my point.

By tripping over a sprinkler? Hindsight is a pretty good tool to possess.

Not everyone destroys their knee when they trip. There are two factors at play the sprinkler and the fragility of Saunders.

rarefind · Post #19 » by **rarefind** » Fri May 22, 2015 5:20 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
rarefind wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:The point is more about the strength of our teams pitching.
Happ was not a huge asset, but he has proven to be a dependable contributor. Toronto pitching ranks close to last in almost every category. I just think we needed the depth in the rotation, more than in the OF, especially given Sauder's health history and the fact he is moving to a terrible playing surface where injuries are more likely (I know this one happened in ST) and slower to heal.

It is annoying to say I told you so, but Saunders has proven my point.

By tripping over a sprinkler? Hindsight is a pretty good tool to possess.

Not everyone destroys their knee when they trip. There are two factors at play the sprinkler and the fragility of Saunders.

He tore his meniscus. That isn't a bump or sprain, that is structural damage. He had not had surgery on that knee prior - fragility is not part of the equation considering he is not a 65 year old man. You could've taken Cal Ripken in the middle of his 2,632 games played streak and have him swap places with Saunders and he'd likely have suffered the same injury.

bluerap23 · Post #20 » by **bluerap23** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:43 pm

rarefind wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
rarefind wrote:
By tripping over a sprinkler? Hindsight is a pretty good tool to possess.

Not everyone destroys their knee when they trip. There are two factors at play the sprinkler and the fragility of Saunders.

He tore his meniscus. That isn't a bump or sprain, that is structural damage. He had not had surgery on that knee prior - fragility is not part of the equation considering he is not a 65 year old man. You could've taken Cal Ripken in the middle of his 2,632 games played streak and have him swap places with Saunders and he'd likely have suffered the same injury.

Agree to disagree. Some guys will spend their entire career on the DL. Saunders is just one of those guys. The proof is in the pudding (i.e. look at the statistical reality). We can look at this in a few years and you will see the same thing.