PC Board OT thread

NinjaSheppard · Post #801 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Sat May 9, 2015 7:28 am

So random stat that I found interesting

Dwight Howard hasn't won a basketball game against Chris Paul since 2008. Anyone think that changes before next season?

Dr Spaceman · Post #802 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Sat May 9, 2015 3:01 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:So random stat that I found interesting

Dwight Howard hasn't won a basketball game against Chris Paul since 2008. Anyone think that changes before next season?

There was a thread on this forum around the lockout when Paul and Dwight were both in trade rumours about who would you rather build around. It got pretty contentious and went for almost ten pages.

Just funny to think about how little we can actually predict. And also makes me much, much more willing to place big stock in a player's personality.

Post #803 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:49 pm

Quick poll question for you guys:

How many of you love basketball? And by that I mean playing and/or watching the games just for pleasure. In reading a lot of the great posters on the PC board I sometimes find myself wondering if some of you really like basketball for its own sake or rather just enjoy the analysis and the numbers. I mean this in no way as a criticism if its the case for any of you, but more a curiosity. For instance I love to cook and to understand all the science behind it, but don't particularly enjoy food. I can totally nerd out on it, but am just as happy to eat something really simple.

sp6r=underrated · Post #804 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:55 pm

I am a degenerate fan. I've randomly gone to HS basketball games.

Post #805 » by **bondom34** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:59 pm

Good question Chuck, I'd definitely admit the numbers were part of why I started to like this board, but I've grown away from them. Honestly I love the game over anything and I think that is part of it, I'm definitely a fan at heart. I'm insane and let wins and losses affect my mood, you've seen me be an irrational homer on the trade board, and in the end its what has gotten me away from the numbers and at the same time kept me here. I would definitely say I like basketball over anything. Analysis is great, but there's still something great to me about seeing amazing plays or guys just going ham for a short stretch.

GSP · Post #806 » by **GSP** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:05 pm

bondom34 wrote:So who's gonna start "The Austin Rivers Thread"?

Harden and Terrys defense

GSP · Post #807 » by **GSP** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:05 pm

Also great to see sp6r=underrated and Positivity back

Post #808 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:07 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:Quick poll question for you guys:

How many of you love basketball? And by that I mean playing and/or watching the games just for pleasure. In reading a lot of the great posters on the PC board I sometimes find myself wondering if some of you really like basketball for its own sake or rather just enjoy the analysis and the numbers. I mean this in no way as a criticism if its the case for any of you, but more a curiosity. For instance I love to cook and to understand all the science behind it, but don't particularly enjoy food. I can totally nerd out on it, but am just as happy to eat something really simple.

It's a combo.

I'm an analytical person and tend to go in that direction no matter what I get into. And when I do it, it becomes more than about that topic, or about the puzzles involved, but moves on to be about brought things I can take away and apply elsewhere...

but, y'know, baseball is just boring. It's the so-called king of analytical sports for good reason, and baseball is the first sport I got into and how I learned to read when I was a little kid, but when I started playing sports basketball was always my favorite to play. In baseball you're locked into place until you have a reason to do something, which might not be for a half hour. In basketball you're constantly moving, reacting, flowing. There are seemingly infinite choices at any given moment, and hence the more creative you are, the more successful you are (at least out there on the blacktop).

I feel similarly about soccer with one difference of course: The idea of soccer is "let's take the most miraculous aspect of our physical body for fine control...and say it's not allowed to use". Choosing between basketball and soccer, as much as I like soccer, is a bit like choosing between watching sprinters or choosing to watch a 3-legged race. :wink:

(That's a little unfair of course, I love how few stoppages there are in soccer, and wish basketball could emulate it more.)

So yeah:

My enthusiasm for sports has always been in part based on my tendency toward analysis, but among the major spectator sports, the ones i follow most tend to be the ones I saw the most beauty in when I played. The one major except to that is American football which is maybe my 3rd or 4th favorite spectator sport, but in that case my dad, after seeing what happened to kids with my older brother in Pop Warner football, chose to put me in soccer instead and yet we still had season tickets to the Chargers. So I never got to play that sport in any kind of a league, but I still developed a high sentiment for it.

Post #809 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:12 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:I feel similarly about soccer with one difference of course: The idea of soccer is "let's take the most miraculous aspect of our physical body for fine control...and say it's not allowed to use". Choosing between basketball and soccer, as much as I like soccer, is a bit like choosing between watching sprinters or choosing to watch a 3-legged race. (That's a little unfair of course, I love how few stoppages there are in soccer, and wish basketball could emulate it more.)

.

definitely don't want to get into a debate between basketball and futbol, but I find it a little ironic that the skill level in soccer tends to be higher at the top levels than it does in basketball and yet that's what pushes you away from soccer.

But I really appreciate the response and you were one of the guys I was most curious about. Your answer makes obvious sense based on what I pick up from your posts.

Post #810 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:47 pm

GSP wrote:Also great to see sp6r=underrated and Positivity back

Speaking of sp6r.....

viewtopic.php?f=344&t=1316036#start_here

The above thread is absolute gold-level discussion and I wish I had known that thread existed when RAPM took over the top 100 project. Some really smart guys making some really brilliant posts itt. It takes a while to read through, but definitely worth it for any people like me who never go to the Stats forum.

Dr Spaceman · Post #811 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Mon May 11, 2015 1:38 am

Chuck Texas wrote:Quick poll question for you guys:

How many of you love basketball? And by that I mean playing and/or watching the games just for pleasure. In reading a lot of the great posters on the PC board I sometimes find myself wondering if some of you really like basketball for its own sake or rather just enjoy the analysis and the numbers. I mean this in no way as a criticism if its the case for any of you, but more a curiosity. For instance I love to cook and to understand all the science behind it, but don't particularly enjoy food. I can totally nerd out on it, but am just as happy to eat something really simple.

Yes, absolutely I love the game. Junkie is the word I would use. Last night I was at a concert, and would make frequent trips to the bar just so I could keep up with the GSW-MEM game :wink:

In general, I have a tough time with passive entertainment- I can barely sit through a movie and basketball is the only thing I watch on TV. Generally when I have downtime I spend it reading, which I can do for hours and hours at a time. So in that sense I guess I don't watch it just for pleasure, analyzing keeps me engaged, although over beers with friends and conversation I enjoy just passively taking it in. That said, I still went nuts when Pierce hit his game winner yesterday. The game is still very emotionally intense for me, especially in series like LAC-SAS.

But yeah, aesthetically speaking basketball is the "beautiful game" to me, and I spend lots of time playing and watching. But my love for analyzing is borne out of my love for the game, and if I hadn't found this community and realized I craved deeper conversation I probably would look at the sport far differently.

Post #812 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 11, 2015 1:44 am

Chuck Texas wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:I feel similarly about soccer with one difference of course: The idea of soccer is "let's take the most miraculous aspect of our physical body for fine control...and say it's not allowed to use". Choosing between basketball and soccer, as much as I like soccer, is a bit like choosing between watching sprinters or choosing to watch a 3-legged race. (That's a little unfair of course, I love how few stoppages there are in soccer, and wish basketball could emulate it more.)

.

definitely don't want to get into a debate between basketball and futbol, but I find it a little ironic that the skill level in soccer tends to be higher at the top levels than it does in basketball and yet that's what pushes you away from soccer.

But I really appreciate the response and you were one of the guys I was most curious about. Your answer makes obvious sense based on what I pick up from your posts.

On the second point, appreciate you saying that.

On the first point, that's very interesting, but now that I think about it I think I know why: Because when I played basketball I tended to work more like a facilitator whereas in soccer my favorite position was as striker. It's not that I was pass first in basketball mind you, it's just that I found it so much easier to actually attack the defense using passes. Additionally, I think it's easier to really grasp passing as a viewer in basketball than it is in soccer because of the vastness of a soccer pitch.

Post #813 » by **penbeast0** » Mon May 11, 2015 2:54 am

I loved playing the game when I could; I am close enough to stationary now with physical issues that it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. But, I love watching it too. As I have gotten older, I've quit watching most sports; pretty much down to basketball now but I will stop and watch kids on the playground as well as more serious basketball. It's still the sport I grew up with and still one of my passions.

Post #814 » by **bondom34** » Mon May 11, 2015 3:41 am

Also, sort of a weird quirk I guess, but a lot of what pulls me to certain players (specifically Miller and Westbrook) is that they were/are something I never was when I played. I was never very good, played til my freshman yr of HS, then missed JV and just went to other sports, but never had a ton of confidence or was overly aggressive. I love guys who just DGAF and go all out, irrational confidence they can back up sorta guys. I was never that, and love to see it.

Post #815 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:15 am

bondom34 wrote:Also, sort of a weird quirk I guess, but a lot of what pulls me to certain players (specifically Miller and Westbrook) is that they were/are something I never was when I played. I was never very good, played til my freshman yr of HS, then missed JV and just went to other sports, but never had a ton of confidence or was overly aggressive. I love guys who just DGAF and go all out, irrational confidence they can back up sorta guys. I was never that, and love to see it.

Interesting. Meanwhile what I disliked about my game was that I had a tendency to just drive & shoot even when I saw an opportunity to pass. My favorite players nowadays are guys who are less selfish than I was, and I tend to get annoyed by guys who make the type of decisions I'd tend to make.

Post #816 » by **bondom34** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:20 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Also, sort of a weird quirk I guess, but a lot of what pulls me to certain players (specifically Miller and Westbrook) is that they were/are something I never was when I played. I was never very good, played til my freshman yr of HS, then missed JV and just went to other sports, but never had a ton of confidence or was overly aggressive. I love guys who just DGAF and go all out, irrational confidence they can back up sorta guys. I was never that, and love to see it.

Interesting. Meanwhile what I disliked about my game was that I had a tendency to just drive & shoot even when I saw an opportunity to pass. My favorite players nowadays are guys who are less selfish than I was, and I tend to get annoyed by guys who make the type of decisions I'd tend to make.

Huh, interesting. I wonder if its somewhat natural to admire what you weren't as a player. Makes sense when you say it and it makes sense to me in your analysis too (as I'm sure mine does as well

).

Edit: I'd also add I like guys who even though they're like that, are still humble off court for the most part, though I don't know Miller's off court persona other than being terrible at commentary.

GSP · Post #817 » by **GSP** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:41 am

Dr Spaceman youre high on Korver. Im curious what u think of his performance in this series so far?

Dr Spaceman · Post #818 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:32 pm

GSP wrote:Dr Spaceman youre high on Korver. Im curious what u think of his performance in this series so far?

No two ways about it: he's been bad.

The biggest premise of my Korver argument was that he was not a guy who could be defended by normal means. And in the regular season, this was true, teams were going to extreme lengths to try to prevent the guy from getting his shot up. It seems though from the first two playoff series, that teams are having success just having a single disciplined defender shade him hard. I think teams have realized how limited he is off the dribble or inside the arc, and so they're having his defender play overly aggressive defense to not allow him easy catches. And it seems like both teams have sprinkled in a switching system in case someone gets tied up on a screen. So effectively Korver has been stopped just by teams having someone close to him at all times.

Atlanta's offense has lost pretty much all of the creativity we loved in the reg. season, they're relying a ton on just posting up their bigs and Teague pick and roll. I don't know exactly what's causing this, but they're coughing up some gnarly turnovers when they're running motion sets, so maybe they just haven't reached that Spurs-level precision quite yet.

Anyway, this is bad news for Korver, who even last game wasn't even moving much. Lots of plays had him stationed in the corner, and he's making some really poor decisions when he does have the ball, he got blocked badly when he tried to force a shot over a double team last night. Atlanta's house of cards is kind of crumbling, and it's hard to know whether Korver's woes are cause or effect. But either way, his impact is looking to be more limited than I thought it was.

Silver lining, though: his defense has been outstanding. Obv. no one loves Korver for his D, so whatever, but it's worth pointing out. He's been excellent on that end.

Post #819 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:16 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:

The biggest premise of my Korver argument was that he was not a guy who could be defended by normal means. And in the regular season, this was true, teams were going to extreme lengths to try to prevent the guy from getting his shot up. It seems though from the first two playoff series, that teams are having success just having a single disciplined defender shade him hard. I think teams have realized how limited he is off the dribble or inside the arc, and so they're having his defender play overly aggressive defense to not allow him easy catches. And it seems like both teams have sprinkled in a switching system in case someone gets tied up on a screen. So effectively Korver has been stopped just by teams having someone close to him at all times.

.

This is a big part of why I think coaching is overrated in the regular season and terribly underrated in the post-season. You just don't enough time to effectively game plan against every team--especially teams not in your own division or conference and when faced with something like what the Hawks were doing this year its just really tough to get your guys to defend it right. But in the playoffs you can really get your guys dialed in.

Now Korver is still impacting games because of the coverage he requires, but I do think you may have gotten a little ahead of yourself on how much impact he was actually having in the RS. And I say that as a guy who has long felt like Korver was underrated as a basketball player #notjustashooter

Post #820 » by **bondom34** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:30 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:

The biggest premise of my Korver argument was that he was not a guy who could be defended by normal means. And in the regular season, this was true, teams were going to extreme lengths to try to prevent the guy from getting his shot up. It seems though from the first two playoff series, that teams are having success just having a single disciplined defender shade him hard. I think teams have realized how limited he is off the dribble or inside the arc, and so they're having his defender play overly aggressive defense to not allow him easy catches. And it seems like both teams have sprinkled in a switching system in case someone gets tied up on a screen. So effectively Korver has been stopped just by teams having someone close to him at all times.

.

This is a big part of why I think coaching is overrated in the regular season and terribly underrated in the post-season. You just don't enough time to effectively game plan against every team--especially teams not in your own division or conference and when faced with something like what the Hawks were doing this year its just really tough to get your guys to defend it right. But in the playoffs you can really get your guys dialed in.

Now Korver is still impacting games because of the coverage he requires, but I do think you may have gotten a little ahead of yourself on how much impact he was actually having in the RS. And I say that as a guy who has long felt like Korver was underrated as a basketball player #notjustashooter

#WaitersNovakLamb14forKorver

But yeah, I'm a Korver fanboy too, I just think its gotten to a point where the Hawks love was a little outta hand. Playoffs are a different beast.