Do you rate losing?

DaGawd · Post #21 » by **DaGawd** » Wed May 13, 2015 9:21 pm

mastermixer wrote:Making it to the finals is like "kissing" your cousin.

Winning the finals is like "kissing" your sister

Dupp · Post #22 » by **Dupp** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:35 pm

Smash3 wrote:I see a lot of posters are saying if Cleveland were to make the finals that would be a huge achievement which makes no sense to me. How are you happy getting to the finals? Especially for LeBron it would be 2 out of 6, and than people are saying yeah but he made the finals 6 times... The goal is to win the championship and how do you rate losing? Why would it feel better to make the finals? You still haven´t accomplished anything... Seems like a really bad argument: his teams finished second 4 times... So what? What do you guys think about it?

It's better than finishing 8th 4 times.

afox · Post #23 » by **afox** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:15 am

Jordan did change how we view the Finals record....that's what the best player ever will do...change how we view greatness....Bron fans like to say he's great cuz he got there...while that is an accomplishment...let's quantify it by remembering how god awful the East has been during his run....As well when you start arguing the greatness of the top players ever...every little factor will be brought out of the woodwork...hence MJ's Finals record...but let's not get it twisted....MJ took it to another level from the reg season to the playoffs....and when he made the Finals??...you just knew it was on....he elevated yet again...that's what adds to the legend as well...he wasn't 6-0 just because he won all 6 times....he took it to another level, the greater the stage....that's what 6-0 says to me...I'm in the Finals!!...not gonna let my team lose....that's what it says...not just that he won all 6 times he was there....

afox · Post #24 » by **afox** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:32 am

Theres an iconic memory for every one of MJ's Finals..in 91 vs the Lakers, the right to left switch for the layup...in 92...the shrug and 35 first half points...he didn't even know how...in 93...a Finals record 41 a game...in 96...72-10 and won on father's day...97....the championship winning pass after drawing the double team(after having forseen it on the bench during the preceeding timeout)...98 the championship winning shot and pose...the guy was just unbelievable...on a nightly basis...I used to say he was so good he was lucky...the meaning? he was so talented and prepared that good things happened to him(right place right time kinda sht...constantly)...like he needed the xtra luck...lol

afox · Post #25 » by **afox** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:34 am

afox wrote:Theres an iconic memory for every one of MJ's Finals..in 91 vs the Lakers, the right to left switch for the layup...in 92...the shrug and 35 first half points...he didn't even know how...in 93...a Finals record 41 a game...in 96...72-10 and won on father's day...97....the championship winning pass after drawing the double team(after having forseen it on the bench during the preceeding timeout)...98 the championship winning shot and pose...the guy was just unbelievable...on a nightly basis...I used to say he was so good he was lucky...the meaning? he was so talented and prepared that good things happened to him(right place right time kinda sht...constantly)...like he needed the xtra luck...lol

Post #26 » by **zimpy27** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:09 am

mastermixer wrote:Making it to the finals is like "kissing" your cousin.

Winning the finals is like "kissing" your sister

Starbury not only won the finals, he felt the finals soul.

TKainZero · Post #27 » by **TKainZero** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:18 am

I rate losing in the first round of the 2015 western playoffs higher than I rate winning the eastern conference finals.

magicmerl · Post #28 » by **magicmerl** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:35 am

Beffiosa wrote:If not winning a championship is a failure, why are we saying Jordan is 6-6?
Jordan 6 wins 9 losses
Lebron 2 wins 9 losses
Kobe 5 wins 14 losses
Duncan 5 wins 13 losses
Durant 0 wins 8 losses

But wait, then you're counting making the playoffs as a loss, but missing the playoffs as nothing?

Really it should just be years as a contender and rings.

Hector_Reyes_8 · Post #29 » by **Hector_Reyes_8** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:38 am

I would rather fail spectacularly than succeed minimally.
- Alexander "Lex" Luthor.

andremcosta · Post #30 » by **andremcosta** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:31 am

afox wrote:Jordan did change how we view the Finals record....that's what the best player ever will do...change how we view greatness....Bron fans like to say he's great cuz he got there...while that is an accomplishment...let's quantify it by remembering how god awful the East has been during his run....As well when you start arguing the greatness of the top players ever...every little factor will be brought out of the woodwork...hence MJ's Finals record...but let's not get it twisted....MJ took it to another level from the reg season to the playoffs....and when he made the Finals??...you just knew it was on....he elevated yet again...that's what adds to the legend as well...he wasn't 6-0 just because he won all 6 times....he took it to another level, the greater the stage....that's what 6-0 says to me...I'm in the Finals!!...not gonna let my team lose....that's what it says...not just that he won all 6 times he was there....

If you are considering Lebron case for GOAT, its fine to compare how they played finals. But Lebron is not GOAT. Theres nothing hurting his legacy, because he's not finishing above Jordan anyway. Hurting legacy usually means you are losing ground and he is not.

Also, the 6-0 Bulls were the best team in most finals they played. Maybe they were dogs in the first year.

Lebron played in the favorite team only 1 out of 5 and they will be dogs agains if they reach this season. They were favorites only against Dallas, you are free to check it.

BTW, its kot about Jordan, its about Lebron. I doubt most people will rank him worst as an all-time player if they lose in Finals this season.

markjay · Post #31 » by **markjay** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:35 am

magicmerl wrote:
Beffiosa wrote:If not winning a championship is a failure, why are we saying Jordan is 6-6?
Jordan 6 wins 9 losses
Lebron 2 wins 9 losses
Kobe 5 wins 14 losses
Duncan 5 wins 13 losses
Durant 0 wins 8 losses

But wait, then you're counting making the playoffs as a loss, but missing the playoffs as nothing?

Really it should just be years as a contender and rings.

How about just counting the rings?

durden_tyler · Post #32 » by **durden_tyler** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:39 am

When you're fighting for legacy, it's called losing in the finals. When your a normal star/superstar/player, it's making the finals.

wowski · Post #33 » by **wowski** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:55 am

I've seen the 6 for 6 argument used in the context that Jordan never lost in his prime. Then there are others saying once Jordan reached the finals, he took it to another level still after lifting it up a notch for the playoffs, ergo he never lost a FInals series.

Both are true of course, but it should not be used to diminish other players for reaching the Finals and not winning the title.

I subscribe more to the path on the way to the Finals, the stength of the opponents and how heavy the conference is.

Mr Puddles · Post #34 » by **Mr Puddles** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:42 am

A bunch of born losers in this thread apparently don't understand that if you don't win you lose. Winning a conference finals is no better than having the worst record in the league. Scoring 99 points in a game only places you second on the all-time list, ergo LOSER. Sure you had sex with Jessica Alba, but were you the first to do so? Does she even think you're the best D she ever had, or are you only second on that list? .....Started a business that recently went IPO? Apple is still richer you loser...

True winners don't settle for second best. Like the OP said, If you haven't won you haven´t accomplished anything.

J Shuttlesworth · Post #35 » by **J Shuttlesworth** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:47 am

I'm not really sure what the OP is trying to get across here... Yes, losing is losing, but I'm pretty sure the Cavs would be seen as a giant bust if they didn't make the playoffs, or lost in the first round. Making it to the finals would certainly be an accomplishment for a guy like Kyrie, JR Smith, Mozgov, TT, and Blatt... For LeBron it's just another day at the office.

Look at it in context of other teams... If the Bucks were to have beaten the Bulls, Cavs, and Hawks to make the finals but lost to Golden State, would that really not be seen as some kind of accomplishment? Or should Kidd abandon the ECF and give up so he doesnt' have to be "0-1" as a coach?

I get that there are certain circumstances. The Warriors would not consider it an accomplishment to make the finals and lose to an inferior Eastern team, but they have an absolutely unbelievable roster.

tmorgan · Post #36 » by **tmorgan** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:34 am

Mr Puddles wrote:A bunch of born losers in this thread apparently don't understand that if you don't win you lose. Winning a conference finals is no better than having the worst record in the league. Scoring 99 points in a game only places you second on the all-time list, ergo LOSER. Sure you had sex with Jessica Alba, but were you the first to do so? Does she even think you're the best D she ever had, or are you only second on that list? .....Started a business that recently went IPO? Apple is still richer you loser...

True winners don't settle for second best. Like the OP said, If you haven't won you haven´t accomplished anything.

Your post sucked because I've read better. That makes you a born loser poster, yes?

Don't be an idiot.

The Realist · Post #37 » by **The Realist** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:58 am

afox wrote:Jordan did change how we view the Finals record....that's what the best player ever will do...change how we view greatness....Bron fans like to say he's great cuz he got there...while that is an accomplishment...let's quantify it by remembering how god awful the East has been during his run....As well when you start arguing the greatness of the top players ever...every little factor will be brought out of the woodwork...hence MJ's Finals record...but let's not get it twisted....MJ took it to another level from the reg season to the playoffs....and when he made the Finals??...you just knew it was on....he elevated yet again...that's what adds to the legend as well...he wasn't 6-0 just because he won all 6 times....he took it to another level, the greater the stage....that's what 6-0 says to me...I'm in the Finals!!...not gonna let my team lose....that's what it says...not just that he won all 6 times he was there....

So you're saying he was disappointing often in the regular season and even in the playoffs before finals, leading to poor RS records and multiple first round losses, something Lebron never suffered? Interesting.

The Realist · Post #38 » by **The Realist** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:00 am

durden_tyler wrote:When you're fighting for legacy, it's called losing in the finals. When your a normal star/superstar/player, it's making the finals.

Everyone has a legacy. And everyones legacy is enhanced by making the finals rather than losing before the finals.

durden_tyler · Post #39 » by **durden_tyler** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:04 am

The Realist wrote:
durden_tyler wrote:When you're fighting for legacy, it's called losing in the finals. When your a normal star/superstar/player, it's making the finals.

Everyone has a legacy. And everyones legacy is enhanced by making the finals rather than losing before the finals.

Ring or bust, it's just the way it is if your aiming to become an all-time great.

The Realist · Post #40 » by **The Realist** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:05 am

durden_tyler wrote:
The Realist wrote:
durden_tyler wrote:When you're fighting for legacy, it's called losing in the finals. When your a normal star/superstar/player, it's making the finals.

Everyone has a legacy. And everyones legacy is enhanced by making the finals rather than losing before the finals.

Ring or bust, it's just the way it is if your aiming to become an all-time great.

We're talking about an individual year and not a career as a whole here. Keep up.