2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

[LUKE23]

Pritzl to me is a bigger, quicker Brust. And that's a good thing.

[Johnlac1]

I was agreeing with you...but "coach" in college bball includes recruiting, of course.

I know.

I was just clarifying what I meant. When I said coach I meant purely from a system, motivation, getting the most out of his guys, X's and O's standpoint. Wasn't trying to say recruiter added in on top of that. But I agree if you toss recruiting into the equation then he's likely only in the top 10-15 as opposed to the best.

Obviously everyone loves him now. But there was a time when a lot of people were calling for Bo Ryan to be fired because they never thought he could get the program to the big time and stuff like that. Like I said, I'm not a Wisconsin guy... I do root for them when Marquette gets knocked out or isn't in it... but I was like "Are you people **** nuts? Bo Ryan is amazing.".

So I suppose you guys are excited about getting Ellenson? If you had gotten Stone, I could see Marquette making waves next season or the next.
What is your prediction with just Ellenson? I don't know about any other Marquette recruits. I've heard you might have the inside track on Sam Hauser. I would have liked to see him in a Badger uni just like Ellenson and Stone.

[SpursNBucks]

RSCI is what yous hould be looking at. It takes ESPN, Scout, and Rivals into account. That is the most widely used metric to rank HS players.

Thanks for the heads-up- they don't have anything for 2015 yet.

For 2014
Happ - Rivals -#123 Scout and ESPN - outside of top 100 (no specific) Overall : #159

It becomes a big deal when programs like NC don't get a top 50 - they didn't because of violations scandal. However when teams with more recent success like UW don't get a top 100 - oh, business as usual.

How did Coach K turn Duke into such a recruiting power? It's not like his style is super flashy. I don't think Duke was anything special before he got there. Yet, year after year he gets top 10 recruits. Last year he got Okafor, WInslow, and Jones.

This year #3 Ingram, #11 Jeter, #17 Thornton, and #24 Kenard. He gets the kind of players that UW likes - smart, efficient, high BBIQ, etc. Maybe not always the best athletes, but real good performers and usually pretty high character as well. It just seems so lop-sided.

[Newz]

So I suppose you guys are excited about getting Ellenson? If you had gotten Stone, I could see Marquette making waves next season or the next.
What is your prediction with just Ellenson? I don't know about any other Marquette recruits. I've heard you might have the inside track on Sam Hauser. I would have liked to see him in a Badger uni just like Ellenson and Stone.

I'll be honest that I am not sure what to expect out of Marquette next year. I liked the hire of Woj and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ellenson seems like a very good prospect and a guy who probably has NBA level talent when he's eventually done with his college career. I know Marquette's recruiting class seems to be ranked pretty high... so I have high hopes. Ellenson should be a star, hopefully the cast they put around him is very good.

I, sadly, didn't get to watch a ton of games last season. Not sure what to expect scheme wise or anything like that.

I will say I expect Wisconsin to make the tournament and at least be competitive in whatever games they play. Bo Ryan is just that good that even if they have a bit of a down year talent wise that he alone elevates them to the tournament level.

[sidney moncrief]

Another thing to remember about recruiting rankings is that some guys are rated highly BECAUSE they've committed to play for a blue blood, not the other way around. If a kid isn't getting much attention and then a blue blood swoops in with an offer, you see them shoot up the rankings. They're still the same player as they were when they had a middling rating but now the presence of a top school on their offer sheet makes them look more attractive. If Wisconsin offers that same kid, it's not going to have the same impact.

[Johnlac1]

RSCI is what yous hould be looking at. It takes ESPN, Scout, and Rivals into account. That is the most widely used metric to rank HS players.

Thanks for the heads-up- they don't have anything for 2015 yet.

For 2014
Happ - Rivals -#123 Scout and ESPN - outside of top 100 (no specific) Overall : #159

It becomes a big deal when programs like NC don't get a top 50 - they didn't because of violations scandal. However when teams with more recent success like UW don't get a top 100 - oh, business as usual.

How did Coach K turn Duke into such a recruiting power? It's not like his style is super flashy. I don't think Duke was anything special before he got there. Yet, year after year he gets top 10 recruits. Last year he got Okafor, WInslow, and Jones.

This year #3 Ingram, #11 Jeter, #17 Thornton, and #24 Kenard. He gets the kind of players that UW likes - smart, efficient, high BBIQ, etc. Maybe not always the best athletes, but real good performers and usually pretty high character as well. It just seems so lop-sided.

Duke was a bb power going back to the sixties and Art Heyman, Bob Verga, and some others. They usually just weren't good enough to get past Dean Smith and N.C. They had some lean years in the seventies, but for the past fifty years overall they've been pretty good.

[nmeurett]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

[Badgerlander]

So I suppose you guys are excited about getting Ellenson? If you had gotten Stone, I could see Marquette making waves next season or the next.
What is your prediction with just Ellenson? I don't know about any other Marquette recruits. I've heard you might have the inside track on Sam Hauser. I would have liked to see him in a Badger uni just like Ellenson and Stone.

I'll be honest that I am not sure what to expect out of Marquette next year. I liked the hire of Woj and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ellenson seems like a very good prospect and a guy who probably has NBA level talent when he's eventually done with his college career. I know Marquette's recruiting class seems to be ranked pretty high... so I have high hopes. Ellenson should be a star, hopefully the cast they put around him is very good.

I, sadly, didn't get to watch a ton of games last season. Not sure what to expect scheme wise or anything like that.

I will say I expect Wisconsin to make the tournament and at least be competitive in whatever games they play. Bo Ryan is just that good that even if they have a bit of a down year talent wise that he alone elevates them to the tournament level.

fwiw

Daryl (Boston)

Is the Frank Kaminsky - Kevin Love comparisons a long shot? I look at his game and think that with some work he could develop a skill set similar to Love.
Chad Ford (1:40 PM)

Yeah, I'm not in love with that comp. I don't think Kaminsky is Love. If you want a Love clone, tune into some Marquette games next season and see freshman Henry Ellenson. He's the closest prospect I've seen to Love and a likely Top 10 pick in 2016.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -chad-ford

[xTitan]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

Duke recruits more kids out of Chicago than they do NC...on the irony, Duke seems to get a number of one and done's from Chicago, yet it seems UW always has to deal with those pesky academic standards. Duke recruits nationally, location has zero to do with their success.

[xTitan]

So I suppose you guys are excited about getting Ellenson? If you had gotten Stone, I could see Marquette making waves next season or the next.
What is your prediction with just Ellenson? I don't know about any other Marquette recruits. I've heard you might have the inside track on Sam Hauser. I would have liked to see him in a Badger uni just like Ellenson and Stone.

I'll be honest that I am not sure what to expect out of Marquette next year. I liked the hire of Woj and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ellenson seems like a very good prospect and a guy who probably has NBA level talent when he's eventually done with his college career. I know Marquette's recruiting class seems to be ranked pretty high... so I have high hopes. Ellenson should be a star, hopefully the cast they put around him is very good.

I, sadly, didn't get to watch a ton of games last season. Not sure what to expect scheme wise or anything like that.

I will say I expect Wisconsin to make the tournament and at least be competitive in whatever games they play. Bo Ryan is just that good that even if they have a bit of a down year talent wise that he alone elevates them to the tournament level.

fwiw

Daryl (Boston)

Is the Frank Kaminsky - Kevin Love comparisons a long shot? I look at his game and think that with some work he could develop a skill set similar to Love.
Chad Ford (1:40 PM)

Yeah, I'm not in love with that comp. I don't think Kaminsky is Love. If you want a Love clone, tune into some Marquette games next season and see freshman Henry Ellenson. He's the closest prospect I've seen to Love and a likely Top 10 pick in 2016.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -chad-ford

I have been comparing Henry to Kevin Love since I had an opportunity to see him play as a junior, I believe Henry will be drafted ahead of Stone, Henry will make MU must see next year IMO.

[Johnlac1]

I think Badger fans have to look at the past two years and be happy (no pun intended) about the course of events...even though there was tremendous disappointment both years.
Think about it....two years in a row we came within an eyelash of winning the whole thing. (I didn't see UConn as a super team. they were very beatable.)
Even with an excellent coach and system, you have to have some pretty darn good players to do that.
Maybe Wisconsin hasn't had the most athletic teams, but the players the last two years were an excellent combination of good enough athleticism, skills, and intelligence. I think it's going to be some time before we duplicate the last two years.

[Kerb Hohl]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

Duke recruits more kids out of Chicago than they do NC...on the irony, Duke seems to get a number of one and done's from Chicago, yet it seems UW always has to deal with those pesky academic standards. Duke recruits nationally, location has zero to do with their success.

Not sure if serious, but for the most part, academic standards (or lack thereof) are not why Duke is better than Wisconsin in recruiting (and normally on the court).

[SpursNBucks]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

What does throwing $ have to do with it? Are you trying to say they pay off recruits, have so much better facilities, or what?

I would say the basketball program and UW has been pretty big for awhile. I think they are both emphasized.

It's not like Duke is bringing in these guys from a "hotbed" locally - they come from all over.

I would agree most with your last statement- I think the fact he isn't known for playing up-tempo style is a pretty valid reason he doesn't even go after the uber athletes.

[Kerb Hohl]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

What does throwing $ have to do with it? Are you trying to say they pay off recruits, have so much better facilities, or what?

I would say the basketball program and UW has been pretty big for awhile. I think they are both emphasized.

It's not like Duke is bringing in these guys from a "hotbed" locally - they come from all over.

I would agree most with your last statement- I think the fact he isn't known for playing up-tempo style is a pretty valid reason he doesn't even go after the uber athletes.

Yes - facilities. Tradition, ability to get to the NBA, etc. also help. It's possible that a lot of these guys are getting paid, but having top dollar to pay assistants that can say "I will get you to the NBA and a top 5 pick" and incredible facilities are some of the main factors.

[nmeurett]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

What does throwing $ have to do with it? Are you trying to say they pay off recruits, have so much better facilities, or what?

I would say the basketball program and UW has been pretty big for awhile. I think they are both emphasized.

It's not like Duke is bringing in these guys from a "hotbed" locally - they come from all over.

I would agree most with your last statement- I think the fact he isn't known for playing up-tempo style is a pretty valid reason he doesn't even go after the uber athletes.

Yes - facilities. Tradition, ability to get to the NBA, etc. also help. It's possible that a lot of these guys are getting paid, but having top dollar to pay assistants that can say "I will get you to the NBA and a top 5 pick" and incredible facilities are some of the main factors.

You also have to look at brand recognition. When someone says university of Wisconsin most people think of the football program. When you say Duke university you think basketball (I wouldnt be surprised if people did not know they even had a football team) Then you also have the access to all the alumni in the NBA which definitely helps. Look at Marquette if Wade does not blow up I do not think they would have the success they have had since. Also Duke is always on national television and Wisconsin isnt that is another huge recruiting tool.

[mattg]

Duke has a totally different recruiting profile than wisconsin does. First, as mentioned, they attract players on a national level, location is meaningless to them. 2nd, their recruits fall in one of two categories: kid who already comes from a rich family or kid whose dad was a former player. This ensures that cash right out of HS isn't a major factor for their players and that many of their recruits will stay 4 years because the degree is valued/there's no hurry to get paid when you're already well-off.

[MadBlueEdwards]

their recruits fall in one of two categories: kid who already comes from a rich family or kid whose dad was a former player.

I don't think that's true at all.

[emunney]

Duke is a private basketball school which throws all of their money at the basketball program unlike Wisconsin which is 1st and most a football school. Duke is also in a hot bed of basketball talent which Wisconsin is not. It will get even worse when teams like UNC and Syracuse are done with the restrictions (UNC probably will not even get any restrictions its just the cloud of the investigation right now) I do not think Wisky will start to get big name recruits until Bo Ryan leaves as the perception on him is he is a system coach and does not play NBA style basketball.

Duke recruits more kids out of Chicago than they do NC...on the irony, Duke seems to get a number of one and done's from Chicago, yet it seems UW always has to deal with those pesky academic standards. Duke recruits nationally, location has zero to do with their success.

Duke recruits nationally now, but I think the question was how Duke built up to that, and nmeurett is correct that it helps to be in a hoops hotbed. You guys wouldn't believe the quality of the average pickup game down there. When I moved to Chicago, the difference was **** depressing.

[chonestown]

Duke has a totally different recruiting profile than wisconsin does. First, as mentioned, they attract players on a national level, location is meaningless to them. 2nd, their recruits fall in one of two categories: kid who already comes from a rich family or kid whose dad was a former player. This ensures that cash right out of HS isn't a major factor for their players and that many of their recruits will stay 4 years because the degree is valued/there's no hurry to get paid when you're already well-off.

Hi, we're four-year phenoms Tyus Jones, Justice Winslow and Jahlil Okafor. Our 8 months at Duke were a magical time.

Oh, hai Jabari. How was your semester and a half?

Duke's elite NBA recruits leave when the NBA deems them worthy of Top-20 selection. In that respect, they are not unique.

[MikeIsGood]

Duke has a totally different recruiting profile than wisconsin does. First, as mentioned, they attract players on a national level, location is meaningless to them. 2nd, their recruits fall in one of two categories: kid who already comes from a rich family or kid whose dad was a former player. This ensures that cash right out of HS isn't a major factor for their players and that many of their recruits will stay 4 years because the degree is valued/there's no hurry to get paid when you're already well-off.

Hi, we're four-year phenoms Tyus Jones, Justice Winslow and Jahlil Okafor. Our 8 months at Duke were a magical time.

Oh, hai Jabari. How was your semester and a half?

Duke's elite NBA recruits leave when the NBA deems them worthy of Top-20 selection. In that respect, they are not unique.

This is a relatively new phenomena for Duke. It was previously spoken of as heresy that a Duke player would be a one-and-done. Leave early, sure, that happened some. But Duke has a history of players staying in the program. In that respect, Coach K and staff have adapted to the new college landscape.

Here's an article from this past fall on this very topic.