Clipper 2015 Offseason

TucsonClip · Post #101 » by **TucsonClip** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:02 pm

Neddy wrote:
kylem4711 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/UCjwilcox23W/status/600478641160499200[/tweet]

CJ is right, and whoever the other dude is wrong.

Austin's team option has been declined awhile ago, he will be a free agent, unless his pop rescinded the decline and now suddenly picked it back up but I don't think that is allowed once you decline the option.

Austin is unrestricted, but we can offer him up to what his TO would have been. I think $3.1 mil.

TucsonClip · Post #102 » by **TucsonClip** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:04 pm

kylem4711 wrote:timing-wise, what happens if we dont sign DJ right away?
Will his salary automatically come off of the salary at of July 1?

I ask because if DJ comes off the books on July 1 and we choose to release crawford, barnes, and hudson, wouldn't that mean we would have around 10 mill to mess with? Then we could sign a couple players and then DJ? Someone school, cause i really dont know what im talking about.

DJ's cap hold kicks in on July 1. It remains until we re-sign him, he signs elsewhere or we renounce him. The max cap space we can achieve would be around $7 mil. That would make no sense to get to, as we would have lost 3 key contributors for nothing.

kylem4711 · Post #103 » by **kylem4711** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:09 pm

TucsonClip wrote:
kylem4711 wrote:timing-wise, what happens if we dont sign DJ right away?
Will his salary automatically come off of the salary at of July 1?

I ask because if DJ comes off the books on July 1 and we choose to release crawford, barnes, and hudson, wouldn't that mean we would have around 10 mill to mess with? Then we could sign a couple players and then DJ? Someone school, cause i really dont know what im talking about.

DJ's cap hold kicks in on July 1. It remains until we re-sign him, he signs elsewhere or we renounce him. The max cap space we can achieve would be around $7 mil. That would make no sense to get to, as we would have lost 3 key contributors for nothing.

thanks. I didn't know about cap holds.

Post #104 » by **QRich3** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:57 pm

nickhx2 wrote:how come you wouldn't rather just re-sign austin for his limited bird? he seems decent and young enough to actually be a solid bench player, and a two year deal won't kill us in cap boom year #1.

also i mostly like your plan. would love if AK felt like coming back cause he's gotta be way better than hedo. also would be nifty if paul pierce wanted to try a final run with us, but i doubt it since doc tried to lowball him this past offseason.

if we don't managed to retool, i agree with your post in the other thread: the lottery could maybe save us.

best possible thing for us would to have both blake/cp3/dj be hamstrung with injuries throughout the year to put us deep into lotto territory. doc gets fired, entire FO gets wiped out, meanwhile mavs are looking like a lotto team for the next 10 years and we "trade" a future first rounder for rick carlisle.

DREAMS CAN HAPPEN, RIGHT?

Cause I'm tired of that kind of gameplan. Your bench can't be comprised of a chucker and 4 other guys who watch him take bad shots and know they won't get the ball. That's how you get guys unmotivated and not willing to play defense. So if you keep Crawford you have major chucker and chucker jr to take turns. Only chucker jr is not even as good as Crawford at chucking shots.

I loved his playoff outbursts, but that's what they were. Outliers that won't repeat themselves more than once in every 10-15 games. And that's if he has a coach like Doc that will keep playing him no matter how much he f*cks up. Austin is a fringe NBA player, let's get actual NBA players for this team please.

As for AK/Pierce, etc. I'm kind of tired of the ring chasing veteran route too. We kind of tried every one of those available in the last couple years. We'll probably try Prince next year. They don't work, they have a reputation of being washed up because you know, they are washed up. We need to add a real player and we have no means to do so. I get depressed every time I come in here

nickhx2 · Post #105 » by **nickhx2** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:25 pm

I think you make good points.

My thing on austin is that we are almost completely screwed, so we don't have a whole lot of choice. It's like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in a trash can to a starving man. You might not know when you're gonna eat again so you might as well grab it. Plus at that point it's looking like a ribeye steak.

Unless my math is wrong (and it often is), I don't think signing him for two years will impact us negatively, correct? Like we're strung out on cap space regardless and since his contract would be a bird rights one, would it even affect our ability to do anything?

I know a lot of us were high on him cause of his playoff performances but i think with some more development time he can be consistent and serviceable. And right now serviceable is a million times better than jamal crawford. Also, the thing is, i am not so sure the alternative is good for us. For example, let's say we use full MMLE on a backup PG. That leaves us scraping the bottom of the barrel AGAIN for wing depth and big man depth. But i feel that if we can keep giving rivers some real on court development (instead of the few minutes a game he was accustomed to all year), he could develop some consistency. And that will allow us to use our money in those other areas of need. Will it work? Who knows, but i think there are worse things than developing a 22 year old who has shown some flashes of playoff brilliance.

You mention washed up ring chasers, and I generally agree. My simple fear is that by giving a guy like jameer nelson the MMLE (which is a good signing) and letting rivers go we all of a sudden are forced to fill those areas of need with said washed up ring chasers. I would be ok with some form of rivers and pierce for the MMLE. I would not be with tayshuan prince/hedo turkoglu as our wing saviors again, even if it meant jameer nelson.

imo if you want to add a real rotation player, rivers is as close as we can get for minimal resources, even if he has a less than 50% chance of becoming one.

playaloc916 · Post #106 » by **playaloc916** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:51 pm

I really hope we can get rid of Crawford. He's just too much of a net liability. His 1 great scoring game does not offset his 5 bad ones with consistently poor defense. I wouldn't mind him in limited minutes, but Doc just refuses to bench him once goes on his 3-13, 4-15 shooting streaks. I get flashbacks of "Baren" Davis' early years with us.

It's not uncommon to look at a box score and see that he's taken nearly the same number of shots as Blake. That should never happen, not unless he's on some hot streak. He takes 10 terrible shots but hits a timely 3, and all of a sudden Doc thinks he's the hero of the game. All the while guys like Hudson rot on the bench when he could be providing tough defense which we're severely lacking.

The rest of the guys I don't mind returning. JJ just went into a slump at the worst possible time, and Barnes although limited, is a solid starter. If we can just get someone half decent for Crawford, and Hawes starts to not suck, that should make a significant impact.

TucsonClip · Post #107 » by **TucsonClip** » Wed May 20, 2015 6:11 pm

I wouldnt mind bringing Rivers back, but there is no way he should be the reserve PG. Play him at SG/SF, but he's not a PG.

LACtdom · Post #108 » by **LACtdom** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:18 pm

Rivers defended well to warrant him another contract. I'd love to see Hudson and Wilcox get more minutes next season.
We should trade Jamal for a good logo designer... kill two birds with one stone.

Post #109 » by **og15** » Thu May 21, 2015 3:55 am

Clippers Off-Season Primer

Projected salary cap = $67.4 million
Projected luxury tax = $82 million
Apron is $4 million above tax = $86 million

Cap holds are not used in calculating the teams salary relative to mid-level exceptions and performing sign and trades, so the Clippers technically wouldn't be above the apron. We also have to remember than any sign and trade deals must be for at least 3 seasons, though you can make the last year or even last two non-guaranteed, but still has to be at least 3 years.

Matt Barnes ($3.5 mil) + Crawford ($5.7 mil) combine for $9.2 million in contracts trade wise but are only guaranteed $2.5 million of that number. This means that technically the Clippers could make a trade for a player to help a team shed some salary. Stephenson has already been mentioned, but as others have said, he's a guy I also wouldn't want.

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Gallinari post-injury, but Denver would likely have no interest in that as they can get more value if they wanted to trade him. Chandler is another one, but again, not likely to have interest for the same reasons. Martell Webster is a realistic buy low option, but with his injury history and 3 years left on his contracts, it's too much of a gamble.

FA big men

FA Wing Players

FA PG's

C.J. Watson - Pacers aren't bringing him back, problem is that their reasoning is due to him getting injured too much for their liking, so that makes you a little weary, but if he can be had for the minimum, he would be a good addition. Like Tucson, I'm not a fan of Austin Rivers at PG, or as your primary playmaker off the bench.

Spencer Hawes: I know people are scared of trading Hawes so early because of the Dudley situation, but I think teams are looking and saying "bad year, poor fit" and sure they might be looking to buy low, but you can get something there. I just don't know if Hawes will actually fit with what Doc wants to run defensively which makes his playing time capped. So far last year is proving as an outlier shooting wise based on Hawes career, and then now thinking about how guys like Barnes and Crawford couldn't do much offensively in the playoffs, if makes one start to question if Hawes is actually the type of player that can bring it in the post-season anyways. The thing is that even if his shooting is better, his defense is just not going to work for what this team wants to accomplish.

For the big man positions I would be content with:
1) PF - Brandon Bass -> I don't know how this would be done, but it something is possible, it should be done.

2) C - Alexis Ajinca --> The Clippers killer himself, 17/12/2 per 36. Good length, good enough defender for a bench C, maybe a Matt Barnes sign and trade for him could work if the Pelicans want to bring back Asik and go with Norris Cole over him, but they are trying to avoid tax also. If he can be had for a cheap price, he's a good guy to have on deck as the hack a DJ counter. Alexis still gives you length, shot blocking and rim protection while making FT's.

I suppose some sort of pretty good situation assuming DJ is re-signed would be:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lx34rov

Off-seasons signings / acquisitions:

Team Roster:

I know it's not as sexy as people would desire at the SF position, but the Clippers only have so much to work with and this is already stretching it with the hopeful trades, the sign and trades, Brandon Bass taking only $4.9 million and believing Doc will only give Austin $1.5 million. I know Hendo is a SG that can play SF, not a SF, but I don't like the idea of Austin Rivers as a PG and the primary playmaker off the bench. Johnson is just passable, and I chose him over Aminu because the price tag is likely smaller and he can shoot better. You keep Jordan Hamilton and Hudson if you desire, and Wilcox is always a wild card.

An option I like a little more is a gamble on McDaniels with a good chunk of the MMLE or all as a player to develop, let Austin go (yea right), sign Watson to the minimum and still sign a guy like Johnson to the minimum. This gives you lengthy defensive guys in Johnson, Henderson, McDaniels who can all play SF or SG.

Alternate Roster:

I would personally prefer something like this.

What I do like from the first is being able to throw out some defensive lineups like:
(Paul or Rivers) / Henderson / Johnson / Bass / Jordan where you can still score fairly well and still have fairly good spacing and small ball with Paul / Redick / Johnson / Griffin / Bass where you are still capable of defending fairly well.

LACtdom wrote:Rivers defended well to warrant him another contract. I'd love to see Hudson and Wilcox get more minutes next season.
We should trade Jamal for a good logo designer... kill two birds with one stone.

I just want to make sure that we are all aware that Hudson is almost 31 years old and isn't a young developing player.

The other option is: What if DeAndre Jordan doesn't want to return...

Roscoe Sheed · Post #110 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:14 am

You didn't mention Gerald Green as a possibility at the wing- I'm pretty sure he is a free agent

Post #111 » by **og15** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:15 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:You didn't mention Gerald Green as a possibility at the wing- I'm pretty sure he is a free agent

On this, you are correct, kinda forgot about him, but he'll likely outprice the minimum but could be had for the MMLE. His focus on defense is not so inspiring though and he is a bit of a shot jack, but hey, Wesley Johnson is currently one of the options.

nickhx2 · Post #112 » by **nickhx2** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:26 am

interesting plan, og. i definitely think that is one way to do it. i'd certainly feel a lot better about next year. unfortunately that kind of math seems a bit too complicated for doc rivers and friends. otherwise he wouldn't have knee-jerked into trading dudley/1st to begin with.

i think my cap skills are still pretty awful: if we have austin's limited bird rights why do we still need to spend the MMLE on him? i was under the assumption that they were independent of each other.

TucsonClip · Post #113 » by **TucsonClip** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:36 am

I am almost certain that we have limited rights on Rivers. We can sign him for up to the declined player option around $3 mil. That opens the MMLE for other players.

Also, dont see Watson signing for the minimum, but I do like him.

mattd13 · Post #114 » by **mattd13** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:08 pm

a lot of great ideas. I see Austin staying because of doc and his chances somewhere else would be limited. I watched bass in Orlando. he is solid and a good mid range shooter. I could see him starting. I also like Henderson and k.j. I know doc does not like the younger guys but at some point you have to look at the long term. doc please show us all that you can do this.

Post #115 » by **og15** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:51 pm

TucsonClip wrote:I am almost certain that we have limited rights on Rivers. We can sign him for up to the declined player option around $3 mil. That opens the MMLE for other players.

Also, dont see Watson signing for the minimum, but I do like him.

I think Watson's previous contract was only $2 million, it might be possible for get him for the minimum for a player like him which would be something like $1.3 million I think?

If it is true that the MMLE doesn't need to be used on Austin, that is good, then that gives more options. I still don't think you give him more than $2 million.

With Gerald Henderson, the thing I didn't want to neglect is that he isn't much of a 3PT shooter. That said, he has shot 42.4% 3PT on corner 3PT shots the last two seasons, but his attempts are few. Last season, about half of his three's were from the corner, so 65 3PTA and he shot 41.8%. So I don't know if he can maintain something fairly good if let's say he's taking 2-3 3PA/G from the corner each game. He has had an upward trend at least from the corners, two straight years shooting >40% from the corner.

If Rivers doesn't need the MMLE, then sure, I'd be fine with going after Gerald Green as opposed to a guy like Wesley Johnson. The thing is that Green should get at least an MLE contract from someone, but you never know.

PG: Chris Paul / C.J. Watson
SG: J.J. Redick / Austin Rivers
SF: Gerald Green / Gerald Henderson
PF: Blake Griffin / Brandon Bass
C: DeAndre Jordan / Alexis Ajinca

Two things you can get out of this is that if teams put a SF or SG on Paul, you can play a lineup of:
Paul / Hendo / Green / Griffin / Jordan and both Henderson and Green actually have the individual skills to take advantage of a mismatch. This is something the Clippers have not been able to do since Paul has been here.

I'm not a huge fan of Green's relative allergy to going inside the arc and lack of commitment and focus on defense, but a player like him in the right system / role can be very useful. Green took almost 10 3PA/36 minutes last season! That said, he's also solid at hitting from mid-range and creating a little bit as he can get his shot off over just about anyone. Shot selection and defense though is just a player like Jamal except that he is bigger and more athletic, so he can actually play SF, and technically should be better on defense, but I'm not sure if practically he actually helps more. I'm not sold on him.

This also makes the team younger. Green (29), Henderson (27), Bass (30), Ajinca (27), Rivers (22). I still like the K.J. McDaniels option and if there was a way of mixing that in there, it would be great, but the MMLE is what would get him and using that on Green takes that away. It would be nice to get a young athletic wing like that, so certainly looking to but a second round draft pick and stashing a player like that is a good idea. If Green isn't possible, I wouldn't mind going after McDaniels with the MMLE as the backup SF and starting Henderson even with his limited 3PT shooting.

For the money the Clippers have, I think that would be a solid enough outcome if these were possible, but you know, other teams have to be on the same page, players have to be willing to take these contracts, etc, etc, soo...

JayClips92 · Post #116 » by **JayClips92** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:42 pm

og15 wrote: This also makes the team younger. Green (29), Henderson (27), Bass (30), Ajinca (27), Rivers (22). I still like the K.J. McDaniels option and if there was a way of mixing that in there, it would be great, but the MMLE is what would get him and using that on Green takes that away. It would be nice to get a young athletic wing like that, so certainly looking to but a second round draft pick and stashing a player like that is a good idea. If Green isn't possible, I wouldn't mind going after McDaniels with the MMLE as the backup SF and starting Henderson even with his limited 3PT shooting.

Really wish we'd take a serious look at KJ but after seeing out Doc treated Reggie Bullock and CJ Wilcox, I doubt he even gives him a chance. :sigh:

Are sign and trades still an option with the new CBA? I love DJ but I feel like if we could get a big that we could throw the ball to for some scoring may help us. His stocks pretty high now - 1st team all-defense and 3rd team all-nba...

playaloc916 · Post #117 » by **playaloc916** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:22 pm

It seems like it's been so long since we've tried to develop a rookie/young player. The last I can remember is Bledsoe/Aminu, and to a lesser extent, Bullock. I miss seeing players actually develop with us.

Any scenario where Crawford is gone, I'm all for it. I just looked at basketball-reference.com, and I'm just disgusted by his putrid fg percentages. For a one-dimensional player (shows flashes of playmaking ability, but those are few and far between), that is the last thing you want to see. For the playoffs he shot 36% in total, and with 24%(!) 3fg%. Those percentages, combined with him jacking up 13 shots a game, smh...

If i had to choose between Henderson and Green, I'd go with Henderson. He seems like he's a little more well rounded, while Green is just a younger Crawford. If his shot is off, he's not going to be doing much.

I'd take a closer look at Ed Davis. I've seen his earlier years with the Raptors, and if we can pick him up for cheap, I'm all for it. He's a serviceable big who's a decent rebounder, and if given minutes, can rack up a few double doubles.

nickhx2 · Post #118 » by **nickhx2** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:46 pm

i would definitely rather have hendo than green. just not sure that he's even an option. can't fathom why charlotte would do any business with us if it involves them taking crawford.

ed davis is someone i wanted last year. but he chose the lakers for flexibility to take a big payday this coming offseason. i don't think we can get him.

kylem4711 · Post #119 » by **kylem4711** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:50 pm

og15 wrote:Clippers Off-Season Primer

Projected salary cap = $67.4 million
Projected luxury tax = $82 million
Apron is $4 million above tax = $86 million
...

[/b]

Love the effort and thought that you put into your comments.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #120 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Thu May 21, 2015 10:26 pm

playaloc916 wrote:It seems like it's been so long since we've tried to develop a rookie/young player. The last I can remember is Bledsoe/Aminu, and to a lesser extent, Bullock. I miss seeing players actually develop with us.

Any scenario where Crawford is gone, I'm all for it. I just looked at basketball-reference.com, and I'm just disgusted by his putrid fg percentages. For a one-dimensional player (shows flashes of playmaking ability, but those are few and far between), that is the last thing you want to see. For the playoffs he shot 36% in total, and with 24%(!) 3fg%. Those percentages, combined with him jacking up 13 shots a game, smh...

If i had to choose between Henderson and Green, I'd go with Henderson. He seems like he's a little more well rounded, while Green is just a younger Crawford. If his shot is off, he's not going to be doing much.

I'd take a closer look at Ed Davis. I've seen his earlier years with the Raptors, and if we can pick him up for cheap, I'm all for it. He's a serviceable big who's a decent rebounder, and if given minutes, can rack up a few double doubles.

Green is longer and more athletic than Crawford. He can be a very good defender- he has all the characteristics you need to be a good defender but perhaps his mind or heart aren't always in it.