6 weeks left to save season... EE trade.

[North_of_Border]

www.realgm.com

If the Toronto Blue Jays want to make a playoff push, Joel Sherman of the New York Post believes they should try to trade Jose Bautista or Edwin Encarnacion in exchange for pitching.

Toronto, currently last in the AL East but less than five games back, is averaging a Major League-best 5.2 runs, but they also have the highest rotation ERA (5.29) in the game.

The Blue Jays added Josh Donaldson, Russell Martin and Devon Travis to their lineup this offseason and all three have provided strong returns.

"The lineup would be weakened without Bautista or Encarnacion, but far from weak, especially with Jose Reyes expected back from the DL soon, and Michael Saunders perhaps by the All-Star break," writes Sherman.

"However, the Jays might already have missed the window with Bautista. He gained 10-and-5 rights to waive any trade seven games into this season plus incurred a shoulder injury that currently has reduced him to a DH. Encarnacion earns 10-and-5 rights on July 3, so Toronto might have just six weeks to act."

I agree with this article. Bautista and Encarnacion are FAs after next season and at most Jays can only try to resign 1 of em. That will easily be Bautista anyways. "If" he chooses to return ofcourse. Better than trading prospects at this uncertain point.

Trading EE should get a huge return. Otherwise the season is a waste and AA/Gibbons are fired.

[Randle McMurphy]

Don't think trading one of the team's best hitters away is going to be saving their season.

[Sifu]

Don't think trading one of the team's best hitters away is going to be saving their season.

I think trading them away for elite prospects would be best for the team if the season progresses as it has so far.

I would trade EE for a Syndergaard, D'Arnaud and Becerra.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Don't think trading one of the team's best hitters away is going to be saving their season.

I think trading them away for elite prospects would be best for the team if the season progresses as it has so far.

I would trade EE for a Syndergaard, D'Arnaud and Becerra.

They're guaranteed to have EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Martin under contract for 2016. They have Stroman back, and hopefully the young pitchers develop a bit. They should theoretically have a bit of money to spend with Buehrle's big contract expiring. I don't think it would be smart to let a disappointing 2015 lead to a complete blow up before 2016.

If by the deadline in 2016 things aren't looking good, then you trade Jose and EE. The returns obviously won't be as good as they would be if you traded them now, but I don't like the idea of giving up on 2016 already. Maybe I'm naive though.

[Michael Bradley]

Don't think trading one of the team's best hitters away is going to be saving their season.

I think trading them away for elite prospects would be best for the team if the season progresses as it has so far.

I would trade EE for a Syndergaard, D'Arnaud and Becerra.

They're guaranteed to have EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Martin under contract for 2016. They have Stroman back, and hopefully the young pitchers develop a bit. They should theoretically have a bit of money to spend with Buehrle's big contract expiring. I don't think it would be smart to let a disappointing 2015 lead to a complete blow up before 2016.

If by the deadline in 2016 things aren't looking good, then you trade Jose and EE. The returns obviously won't be as good as they would be if you traded them now, but I don't like the idea of giving up on 2016 already. Maybe I'm naive though.

The problem with depending on young starters is the high bust/injury rate. Stroman's injury this year was a freak accident, but young starters in general are not very reliable until they have a few years of consistent performance under their belts. If the Jays head into next season with Stroman, Hutchison, Norris, Sanchez, etc in the rotation, then they might as well trade Edwin and Bautista now. Realistically, they need to add 3 starters, plus need some help in the bullpen. The year to add pitching was this off-season, since AA made the offense elite. Unfortunately, he traded pitching without recouping any, and now here we are.

If you trade Edwin, it's for long-term gain, not short-term. The Jays are in a bad spot in that the chances of their pitching panning out by 2016 is slim, and the offense is getting older with fewer years of cheap control. The time to add talent was the last two seasons when Nelson Cruz and Ervin Santana were available on one year deals and Headley was traded for nothing, or this off-season. Instead, Rogers pulled back on payroll, and another half-assed job was done. It's better to pull the plug too early than too late.

[North_of_Border]

Bautista and EE are gone after 2016 anyway.

0% Chance Jays re-sign both. (huge salaries)
30% Chance they re-sign 1 of em at this rate... (They want to win. Will find a contender who pays)

......... honestly, if things are still like this by the all-star game, i bet Bautista would waive his clause for the rite team.

[torontoaces04]

Bautista and EE are gone after 2016 anyway.

0% Chance Jays re-sign both. (huge salaries)
30% Chance they re-sign 1 of em at this rate... (They want to win. Will find a contender who pays)

......... honestly, if things are still like this by the all-star game, i bet Bautista would waive his clause for the rite team.

100% chance you pulled those statistics out of your ass.

[rarefind]

This logic of trading a current player on the roster for pitching help is flawed. If you are driving along and you encounter a flat, you don't replace the flat tire with another tire currently in use. The only way such a deal makes sense is if you have the heir-apparent to EE ready to take over which we don't. I wouldn't say we have so many elite hitters that losing one for pitching help really helps us especially considering that one of our sluggers may or may not end up on the DL before he can actually throw a baseball.

Aside from the fact that you're not going to find many teams willing to surrender 2 pitchers out of their rotation for him it becomes a moot point. You have to trade prospects if you actually want to improve this roster and quite frankly, trading our top prospects at this point would be a mistake unless you're getting a guy with many years of control much like Donaldson.

[Indiana Jones]

This logic of trading a current player on the roster for pitching help is flawed. If you are driving along and you encounter a flat, you don't replace the flat tire with another tire currently in use. The only way such a deal makes sense is if you have the heir-apparent to EE ready to take over which we don't. I wouldn't say we have so many elite hitters that losing one for pitching help really helps us especially considering that one of our sluggers may or may not end up on the DL before he can actually throw a baseball.

Aside from the fact that your not going to find many teams willing to surrender 2 pitchers out of their rotation for him it becomes a moot point. You have to trade prospects if you actually want to improve this roster and quite frankly, trading our top prospects at this point would be a mistake unless you're getting a guy with many years of control much like Donaldson.

No no no, we have Justin Smoak!!!

[North_of_Border]

Bautista and EE are gone after 2016 anyway.

0% Chance Jays re-sign both. (huge salaries)
30% Chance they re-sign 1 of em at this rate... (They want to win. Will find a contender who pays)

......... honestly, if things are still like this by the all-star game, i bet Bautista would waive his clause for the rite team.

100% chance you pulled those statistics out of your ass.

Truth Hurts ..... i feel ya bro.

[Sifu]

Every year its the same thing. Wait till next year, Jays can compete. Shame to give up now. But every year their flawed roster finds ways to lose.

This past year they should have added a lot of pitching but instead essentially swapped Happ for Estrada. It fell way short of the mark and not surprisingly pitching is an area of need

But every year its something significant. And every year Jays fall short.

Given the same GM, I really not sure if AA can address the areas and build a balanced and competitive team. So, while there is next year, I highly doubt the current management will improve things

[kwamebargnani]

Don't think trading one of the team's best hitters away is going to be saving their season.

I think trading them away for elite prospects would be best for the team if the season progresses as it has so far.

I would trade EE for a Syndergaard, D'Arnaud and Becerra.

They're guaranteed to have EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Martin under contract for 2016. They have Stroman back, and hopefully the young pitchers develop a bit. They should theoretically have a bit of money to spend with Buehrle's big contract expiring. I don't think it would be smart to let a disappointing 2015 lead to a complete blow up before 2016.

If by the deadline in 2016 things aren't looking good, then you trade Jose and EE. The returns obviously won't be as good as they would be if you traded them now, but I don't like the idea of giving up on 2016 already. Maybe I'm naive though.

I think you are naive. The old core is getting older, and even with the money, we have too many holes to fill. It's time to let it go and start an actual rebuild.

[dagger]

I think trading them away for elite prospects would be best for the team if the season progresses as it has so far.

I would trade EE for a Syndergaard, D'Arnaud and Becerra.

They're guaranteed to have EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Martin under contract for 2016. They have Stroman back, and hopefully the young pitchers develop a bit. They should theoretically have a bit of money to spend with Buehrle's big contract expiring. I don't think it would be smart to let a disappointing 2015 lead to a complete blow up before 2016.

If by the deadline in 2016 things aren't looking good, then you trade Jose and EE. The returns obviously won't be as good as they would be if you traded them now, but I don't like the idea of giving up on 2016 already. Maybe I'm naive though.

I think you are naive. The old core is getting older, and even with the money, we have too many holes to fill. It's time to let it go and start an actual rebuild.

You sound like a Leafs' fan. At a certain point in time, a team's cumulative record over three seasons - its strengths and weaknesses - will suggest that it is what it is, and no amount of good health or good luck makes up for what it lacks.

And don't talk about theoretical money. "We're just incremental improvement away from being a contender - sign Clarkson!". That's Leafs fans talk. If the Jays hedged currency this year, and still cut payroll, they will likely cut more next season when they could be unhedged. And even mid-level pitching talent costs a bag load. It's time to get on with a proper rebuild. The good news is that it doesn't have to be a five year process because there is a fair bit of young talent in the system, it's just not in the high minors. And that's where we would look with a fire sale - adding very good prospects who have reached Double A or Triple A.

[kwamebargnani]

I think you are naive. The old core is getting older, and even with the money, we have too many holes to fill. It's time to let it go and start an actual rebuild.

You sound like a Leafs' fan. At a certain point in time, a team's cumulative record over three seasons - its strengths and weaknesses - will suggest that it is what it is, and no amount of good health or good luck makes up for what it lacks.

And don't talk about theoretical money. "We're just incremental improvement away from being a contender - sign Clarkson!". That's Leafs fans talk. If the Jays hedged currency this year, and still cut payroll, they will likely cut more next season when they could be unhedged. And even mid-level pitching talent costs a bag load. It's time to get on with a proper rebuild. The good news is that it doesn't have to be a five year process because there is a fair bit of young talent in the system, it's just not in the high minors. And that's where we would look with a fire sale - adding very good prospects who have reached Double A or Triple A.

But that's what I'm suggesting..

[bballsparkin]

You trade one of EE or Bautista (or both), because it hopefully makes the team better in the future, not this season.

[Sifu]

Jays now have the 2nd worst record in the AL. You can't be that bad and chalk it up to bad luck.

As well, the Rays have arguably worse injuries and they seem to be humming along fairly well.

This Jays team is just not deep and has way too many holes.

A good GM might be able to address these holes during the off season with savvy FA signings. But do we think AA can do this?

He has tried a few times now. He's made some really perplexing off season moves, and failed to address the key holes that we all saw.

Given all this, I'm now in the boat of rebuild and reload rather than retry in 2016 hoping for a miracle. AA might be good in other areas but as a builder of MLB roster, he has been pretty crappy at it.

[Skin Blues]

Jays now have the 2nd worst record in the AL. You can't be that bad and chalk it up to bad luck.

Yes you can.

As well, the Rays have arguably worse injuries and they seem to be humming along fairly well.

So a worse team with worse injuries is doing fine... all the more reason to expect the Jays to be fine.

It wouldn't be a miracle for this team to do very well in 2016. We'll have the best offense in baseball along with Stroman returning, hopefully one of Sanchez/Norris ready to contribute in the rotation along with Hutch, maybe even another young arm like Hoffman or Boyd are close enough to help in the bullpen like Sanchez did last year. It's the last "go for it" season for this core. The fact that they weren't allowed to spend on the 2015 team is very disconcerting, but that doesn't mean 2016 isn't our best chance.

I don't think people realize how dismal this lineup projects to be 2+ years down the road. Edwin and Bautista will be either gone or well into their decline phase and signed for too much money, Martin will be a 34 year old catcher. We really have nothing to look forward to as far as replacements for any of them. It'll be a lot harder to get the run scoring even close to what we have now, than it would be to improve the pitching in 2015/2016.

[Schad]

Jays now have the 2nd worst record in the AL. You can't be that bad and chalk it up to bad luck.

Yes you can.

As well, the Rays have arguably worse injuries and they seem to be humming along fairly well.

So a worse team with worse injuries is doing fine... all the more reason to expect the Jays to be fine.

It wouldn't be a miracle for this team to do very well in 2016. We'll have the best offense in baseball along with Stroman returning, hopefully one of Sanchez/Norris ready to contribute in the rotation along with Hutch, maybe even another young arm like Hoffman or Boyd are close enough to help in the bullpen like Sanchez did last year. It's the last "go for it" season for this core. The fact that they weren't allowed to spend on the 2015 team is very disconcerting, but that doesn't mean 2016 isn't our best chance.

I don't think people realize how dismal this lineup projects to be 2+ years down the road. Edwin and Bautista will be either gone or well into their decline phase and signed for too much money, Martin will be a 34 year old catcher. We really have nothing to look forward to as far as replacements for any of them. It'll be a lot harder to get the run scoring even close to what we have now, than it would be to improve the pitching in 2015/2016.

The lineup will absolutely be worse after 2016, but particularly so if we ride out the final years of Encarnacion and Bautista's contracts. I mean sure, we can go for it yet again, hope that the pitching staff performs and the old guys don't decline and everyone stays healthy, but there's zero margin for error, and if we fail to make the playoffs next year we're going to be something of a talent wasteland on the hitting side for a long time, just as the pitching staff hits their primes.

Or, we could move Bautista/Encarnacion for young players who are closer in age to the pitchers who'll make up our core, and try for once to have all the pieces peaking within 3-4 years of one another. We have wasted their prime years; let's not waste those of the next generation.

[Skin Blues]

So we give up on Bautista and Edwin and hope that our handful of young pitchers become close to as valuable as our current offense? I don't buy it. There's a good chance we get to 2017 with a few fringe prospects that we are rolling the dice on and really no foundation other than Donaldson. Stroman likely is a star, Hutch might be serviceable, the rest are all wild cards. There's no bright future down the road. I'll pass on a couple lottery ticket prospects if it means forfeiting the only real chance we have of making a deep playoff run in 2016.

I mean look at what Donaldson fetched for the Athletics. He's as good or better than both Edwin and Jose, was under team control for 4 full years rather than 1.5, and they got Brett Lawrie and a few iffy prospects. We can't expect more than that in return even if we do trade both of our superstars.

[Michael Bradley]

I'm at a point now where the only way the Jays could conceivably keep Bautista/Edwin in 2016 is if 1) they somehow make the playoffs in 2015, or 2) they absolutely blow open the vault and sign 3 starters to fill out the 2016 rotation rather than depending on youth. I don't see #2 happening (payroll has a better chance of declining further than increasing substantially), and the Jays keep digging themselves into a deeper hole thereby making #1 less and less likely everyday (even with the winnable division).

Like I've said before, the time to add was 2014 and 2015. When you've reached the final year of the window and the team is no closer to making the playoffs than they were 4 years ago, it's time to pull the plug, and this coming from someone who hates trading stars for prospects or depending on prospects in general.