The #2 Pick

[iamworthy]

I found this from a site:

1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio, center, 6-10, 249, Wake Forest. An all-around complete talent, Duncan's expected to be a scorer, rebounder and shot-blocker extraordinaire right off the bat. He's also versatile enough to play either forward position since he is a finesse player rather a power guy. "One thing you should know about him is that, unlike a lot of today's big guys, he isn't afraid to be thought of as a center." said Wake Forest's Dave Odom. "He soaks up learning like a sponge and in four years he never missed a practice. The best way I can describe Tim Duncan is to say that he is never in a hurry, on or off the court. The thing about Tim is his sense of fearlessness. He isn't afraid of winning, and all the responsibility that brings, and he isn't afraid of losing, either. He doesn't like losing, but he will find some way to make it better. And he will never stop trying to find a way to win." Duncan's upside is big and he is the type of player who will get better every year.

Pretty generic, he can score block shots,

[ALL HAIL]

Duncan was an ex excellent defender in college; ii wasn't a big secret.

I remember Jerry West, very accurately, describing Duncan as a generationally good big man.

He showed in college that he was elite at rebounding, scoring, and defending -- remember, Duncan went to school for four years. You knew exactly who Duncan was.

Im trying to get away from what people remembered. Anything from a draftexpress type site?

I'm an old school junkie -- been at this over 25 years.

Try Usenet NBA Draft -- very useful back in the day.

[DEEP3CL]

I don't know how people can claim a person is Tim Duncan and completely disregard the defensive end......

Ehhh.....Duncan wasn't the greatest defender when he first came in either. David Robinson covered his ass pretty damn well his first couple of years. Let's not act like Duncan was what he ended up being.

[Luciferswings]

To compare the hype coming out of college between Duncan and Okafor is misguided. Here are some quotes from an oral history of Tim Duncan:

Doc Rivers, former Spurs point guard and TNT analyst: “Pop is the luckiest man alive.”

Brown: “When it came down to us and San Antonio, I thought to myself, this is a no-brainer. If we win, great. If San Antonio wins, it’s great for Pop. The guy was the best man at my wedding. Then, right after it was announced, I thought to myself, ‘I still love you, Pop.’ But man, what a letdown. There was such a drop-off after Duncan.” (Boston Globe)

Jerry Reynolds, Sacramento general manager: “This will make them contenders for a world championship.”

Peter Holt, Spurs chairman: “If we’re healthy, we should win 50-plus games and be in the playoffs. And if Tim Duncan is all that we believe he is, you’ve got to believe he puts us in a league of our own.”

M.L. Carr, Boston director of corporate development: “As soon as (the lottery) was over, I get a call (from Pitino) telling me to ask Pop if he’ll trade the No. 1 pick for the No. 3 and No. 6 picks. Pop was very gracious. He said he thought he’d probably hold onto the pick. Can you imagine having to make that request? We’d have had to give them the right to all future picks and he still probably wouldn’t have done it.” (Boston Globe)

Don Nelson, Dallas coach: “If Pop trades him, I’ll go down there and take my shotgun to his house.”

Popovich: “The chances of us trading Tim Duncan are about the same as (then scout) R.C. Buford starting at off guard.”

The draft was described as the Tim Duncan Sweepstakes.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/19/sport ... takes.html

''I don't mind getting the fourth pick,'' said General Manager Stu Jackson of the Grizzlies. ''What I mind is having to face Robinson and Duncan in the West four times next season.''

I could go on and on. Duncan was seen as a can't miss, generational talent, a true franchise player, elite on O and D. I wouldn't compare Towns to him, and I sure as heck wouldn't compare Okafor to him.

[Sedale Threatt]

Duncan averaged 12 rebounds and four blocks over four years in college. Draw your own conclusions.

Meh, Kobe was a bench rider when he entered the nba...look at him now. Im curious to know Duncans stats as a freshman

Basketball Reference is your friend.

[Sedale Threatt]

I don't know how people can claim a person is Tim Duncan and completely disregard the defensive end......

Ehhh.....Duncan wasn't the greatest defender when he first came in either. David Robinson covered his ass pretty damn well his first couple of years. Let's not act like Duncan was what he ended up being.

He wasn't the absolute greatest, but he was pretty damn great. Led the league in defensive win shares as a rookie (and three of his first four seasons), elite rebound/block numbers from the jump, All-Defensive team by his second year. He obviously improved with experience but he was pretty much the total package, on both ends, coming out of college. Hard comparison to make with a kid coming out after one year of college, despite the offensive similarities. (Indeed, based on their scoring averages/FG%s as freshmen, Okafor looks like the better offensive player at this stage.)

[iamworthy]

Duncan averaged 12 rebounds and four blocks over four years in college. Draw your own conclusions.

Meh, Kobe was a bench rider when he entered the nba...look at him now. Im curious to know Duncans stats as a freshman

Basketball Reference is your friend.

BBR wont tell me that Kobe is a all time great his first year. Yet plenty of people are making post like Duncan was a defensive beast out of college. To my knowlege Duncan played 4 years. take that information now break it down to duncans freshman year. How good was he when he was 19 like towns and Okafor? thats my only question

[ALL HAIL]

Duncan averaged ten points, ten boards, and four blocks in 30 minutes on a team with a senior Rodney Rogers who averaged well over twenty a game. I believe Randolph Children's was on that team as well, another big-time scorer.

Like I said though, based on what was seen, he would've gone first in the draft -- ahead of even Chris Webber.

Much like Embid, you could see the grace and mobility was quite exceptional. Duncan's defense freshman year was very good.

Okafor and Duncan aren't comparable defensively, even as freshmen.

[DEEP3CL]

I don't know how people can claim a person is Tim Duncan and completely disregard the defensive end......

Ehhh.....Duncan wasn't the greatest defender when he first came in either. David Robinson covered his ass pretty damn well his first couple of years. Let's not act like Duncan was what he ended up being.

He wasn't the absolute greatest, but he was pretty damn great. Led the league in defensive win shares as a rookie (and three of his first four seasons), elite rebound/block numbers from the jump, All-Defensive team by his second year. He obviously improved with experience but he was pretty much the total package, on both ends, coming out of college. Hard comparison to make with a kid coming out after one year of college, despite the offensive similarities. (Indeed, based on their scoring averages/FG%s as freshmen, Okafor looks like the better offensive player at this stage.)

Oh I agree...look he wasn't inept by any means. I'm just saying guys have to figure it out. Lucky for Tim he had Dave to show and explain to him. Jahlil or Karl will have to raw dog it on their own. Yes it is unfair to compare either rookie to Duncan, last I looked 4yrs in school is better than 1.

[iamworthy]

again, Im not against Duncan, I just want to see 1997 opinions

[Sedale Threatt]

Meh, Kobe was a bench rider when he entered the nba...look at him now. Im curious to know Duncans stats as a freshman

Basketball Reference is your friend.

BBR wont tell me that Kobe is a all time great his first year. Yet plenty of people are making post like Duncan was a defensive beast out of college. To my knowlege Duncan played 4 years. take that information now break it down to duncans freshman year. How good was he when he was 19 like towns and Okafor? thats my only question

I mean, he was, on both ends. He was a lock for the No. 1 pick after his sophomore year. He was a can't-miss superstar, the total package. I'm surprised anybody is questioning this. This is common knowledge.

As for year-to-year breakdowns, what Duncan was as a freshman year, that's a little different. I don't think it's a stretch, given what he became, and the fact that he averaged almost 10 rebounds and more than three blocked shots, that he was a pretty damn good defensive player in his first year. Then he blossomed offensively over the last three.

Could Okafor do the same defensively? I mean, I guess. I've honestly maybe watched him play twice. Based on some of the reports he can improve just by trying harder. The stuff you read about Marc Gasol, and how much he's obviously improved is encouraging. But while the offensive similarities would seem fair, we don't have anything tangible to suggest he's going to be anything like Duncan was on the defensive end pretty much from the start of his career.

[iamworthy]

@ST Im not really questioning Duncans growth as a player through the years. I just wonder if he was all of this why didnt he get drafted out of high school? Wasnt KG straight out of high school in 96?

[Luciferswings]

I linked you to both a 1997 article and the Oral history of Tim Duncan, which is full of quotes from the time, calling him a complete player who can do everything.

[Sedale Threatt]

Ehhh.....Duncan wasn't the greatest defender when he first came in either. David Robinson covered his ass pretty damn well his first couple of years. Let's not act like Duncan was what he ended up being.

He wasn't the absolute greatest, but he was pretty damn great. Led the league in defensive win shares as a rookie (and three of his first four seasons), elite rebound/block numbers from the jump, All-Defensive team by his second year. He obviously improved with experience but he was pretty much the total package, on both ends, coming out of college. Hard comparison to make with a kid coming out after one year of college, despite the offensive similarities. (Indeed, based on their scoring averages/FG%s as freshmen, Okafor looks like the better offensive player at this stage.)

Oh I agree...look he wasn't inept by any means. I'm just saying guys have to figure it out. Lucky for Tim he had Dave to show and explain to him. Jahlil or Karl will have to raw dog it on their own. Yes it is unfair to compare either rookie to Duncan, last I looked 4yrs in school is better than 1.

No, no, no. "He wasn't inept" -- come on. All the evidence we have, from statistical to anecdotal, shows he was great pretty much from the start. That wasn't just a matter of having David Robinson explain the game to him. Certainly, having a mentor and a partner like David was a big benefit. But Duncan was an elite defensive player on his own -- great size, great length, exceptional IQ and instincts and timing. I can see Okafor becoming a solid, maybe above average defender. He sounds like he's got a tremendous work ethic and a desire to get better. But there's nothing to suggest at this ridiculously early stage -- and I'm mainly going on scouting reports here -- that he's going to be anything like Duncan has been on D. He's going to have to prove that isht.

[Luciferswings]

@ST Im not really questioning Duncans growth as a player through the years. I just wonder if he was all of this why didnt he get drafted out of high school? Wasnt KG straight out of high school in 96?

Duncan promised his mother, who was dying of cancer, that he would get a college degree. He was heavily recruited for years before declaring for the draft, which is one reason everyone wanted him so badly and was tanking in 1997 to get him. He was completely proven, for years, as the best prospect you could get.

[ALL HAIL]

Listen to your elders gentlemen:

Usenet NBA Draft ... 1997

[iamworthy]

@ST Im not really questioning Duncans growth as a player through the years. I just wonder if he was all of this why didnt he get drafted out of high school? Wasnt KG straight out of high school in 96?

Duncan promised his mother, who was dying of cancer, that he would get a college degree. He was heavily recruited for years before declaring for the draft, which is one reason everyone wanted him so badly and was tanking in 1997 to get him. He was completely proven, for years, as the best prospect you could get.

Ahhh thanks for the info.

[Sedale Threatt]

@ST Im not really questioning Duncans growth as a player through the years. I just wonder if he was all of this why didnt he get drafted out of high school? Wasnt KG straight out of high school in 96?

A. That was still an extremely unusual route to take.

B. Tim was a huge outlier in that he was a late bloomer, who didn't start playing basketball until really late -- he was mainly a competitive swimmer as a kid -- and flew pretty much totally under the radar in St. Croix. Didn't play AAU ball or whatever. (Which was probably a huge blessing.) Nobody really knew who he was. This was 20 years ago, before the Internet age. There is some interesting stuff about all this in that oral history. The Wake Forest coach saw him in a pick-up game in high school and was like, holy isht, who is this kid? And even then he was considered the worst player their recruiting class.

EDIT: He didn't start playing basketball until the ninth grade.

[Sedale Threatt]

If we're going just on stats, I'll say this much: Tim Duncan didn't shoot 66 percent as a college freshman. Or ever. That's pretty damn ridiculous.

[Luciferswings]

Yeh, guy went head to head with Zo in some pick up games at age 16 and just stunned everyone at the time. I'm not sure that snippet is in the oral history. I mean, David Robinson is one of the best 15-20 players of all-time (and peak to peak he'd be higher than that), and it was obvious in the first few days of the Spurs training camp in Duncan's rookie year that they needed to make Duncan the focal point over Robinson. It's something that got a lot of media coverage last year when they won the title.