The #2 Pick

[ALL HAIL]

To be clear, my interest in Duncan's scouting report at age 19 has nothing to do with Russell. I was more interested in comparing Duncan to Okafor at age 19. Since some of the knock on Okafor is his defense. I think someone posted something about Marc Gasol being known as only a offensive player yet the dude just won DPOY last year. I was just wondering how much can Okafor grow on the defensive side of the ball. I'm in the take the big camp.

I know where you're coming from, and to answer your question, Okafor has a bad defensive foundation, from sliding his feet to rebounding, to timing blocks. Obviously, anyone can grow, but right now he's not good.

I wonder why no one is talking about his rebounding.

In the tourney, the more aggressive and intangibled Winslow was doubling up Okafor in the boards.

[Sofa King]

Not sure what is more outlandish, confidently comparing healthy Oden's impact to an MVP player like Durant, or saying that KD might as well be Oden if he doesn't get healthy soon (as though the previous 7+ years of his career are now irrelevant).

If KD doesnt bounce back into his MVP prime form, hes the next Tracy McGrady.

[Michael Lucky]

Exactly and we don't even know if Russell will be better than Clarkson. Clarkson is already doing well he's working on his shot and he's a lot more athletic than Russell.

except Clarkson is still projected more as a SG while Russell is mostly projected as a PG.

... Who can't guard PGs.

Imagine Russell trying to check Ty Lawson.

He's got the size to guard 2s, so I wouldn't really care about that anyways. Besides, there aren't may PGs capable of guarding their own position these days.

[DEEP3CL]

Look man all I'm say is that guys act like Tim was Russell or an early 70's Jabbar on defense.I watched Duncan in college all 4 years at Wake Forest. I remember vividly his first years in the NBA, he improved over time. For some to act as if Oakfor won't figure it out is just dumb quite frankly.

It's completely moot to even compare Duncan to Okafor or Towns, Duncan had 4 years to hone his skills while the game on the college level has changed 100 fold since Duncan. If Towns and Okafor stayed 4 years I'm pretty sure they'd be total beast on the defensive end of the floor.

I'm sure you'll forgive me if I don't trust your recall if your impression of Duncan's defense during his early years in the NBA was that David Robinson was covering for him. Simply not the case.

Of course players improve -- especially ones who seem to have work ethics like Okafor does. But at this early stage, with one season to go on, we have no indication he's ever going to be a "beast" on defense. At least not based on a direct comparison with Duncan at the same age.

I'm not making it out as if Robinson was baby sitting him, but I know for a fact Duncan was guarding mostly 4's. Sure he had his time at the 5 spot and Duncan had the physical tools to guard both spots.

Of course it's only obvious that he won't be the defender he has to later become, one year of college ball isn't going to prepare anyone for the NBA. Again Duncan had 4 years of college ball, Okafor is still a compete unknown in terms of his ceiling to learn capable NBA defense but I'm sure he'll get there.

[DEEP3CL]

Not sure what is more outlandish, confidently comparing healthy Oden's impact to an MVP player like Durant, or saying that KD might as well be Oden if he doesn't get healthy soon (as though the previous 7+ years of his career are now irrelevant).

If KD doesnt bounce back into his MVP prime form, hes the next Tracy McGrady.

Exactly, it's kinda asinine to think a guy is just gonna pick up where he left off, he may or may not we simply don't know. I remember several great players that got hurt, came back and never resembled anything he did before.

So ahh...... Luciferswings , yeah if KD doesn't get back to MVP form his previous 7 years means nothing. As it stands now he has a lot of work to even get back to that level.

[Slava]

Sure, but even if Oden had been an almost Dwight like player, which I think is a fairly generous projection, he'd still have been less impactful than KD. The issue wasn't that Oden wasn't going to be great if he'd stayed healthy, it was that everyone underrated just how awesome KD would be. I'd wan to make sure you don't do the same with Russell, instead of saying "well, you always go big".

Greg Oden in his second season was putting up 17/13/3.5 blks per 36 mins at 23 PER and .214 WS/48 at only 20 Usage, 118 ORTG/ 100 DRTG and +4.1 BPM. That is once in a generation talent at only 22 years old.

you really need to understand the player before even making a comparison with the benefit of hindsight.

[kblo247]

Sure, but even if Oden had been an almost Dwight like player, which I think is a fairly generous projection, he'd still have been less impactful than KD. The issue wasn't that Oden wasn't going to be great if he'd stayed healthy, it was that everyone underrated just how awesome KD would be. I'd wan to make sure you don't do the same with Russell, instead of saying "well, you always go big".

Greg Oden in his second season was putting up 17/13/3.5 blks per 36 mins at 23 PER and .214 WS/48 at only 20 Usage, 118 ORTG/ 100 DRTG and +4.1 BPM. That is once in a generation talent at only 22 years old.

you really need to understand the player before even making a comparison with the benefit of hindsight.

Same way I told you Hill didn't matter per 36, Oden doesnt. He could never handle the work lose in reality. Towns fans will be sad when they see him blow up often without that platoon compared to okafor

[Slava]

Did you just compare Jordan Hill to Greg Oden?

[dockingsched]

I remember Oden just pushing Bynum around like nothing at a time that Bynum looked like the 2nd best center in the league. Oden was so clearly a cut above everyone else when he was on the court.

[kblo247]

Did you just compare Jordan Hill to Greg Oden?

I compared one lotto pick bomb who is incosistent, injury prone, has a alcohol issues, and whose per 36 will never matter because hes too fragile to play 30 even a night big to another yes. I live in reality not some fantasy world .... both busts

[kblo247]

I remember Oden just pushing Bynum around like nothing at a time that Bynum looked like the 2nd best center in the league. Oden was so clearly a cut above everyone else when he was on the court.

That was Yao .... He was the only great big whose career was cut short not Oden or Bynum because he was actually great and not living off flashes

[Frank Dux]

You go with the big, no question about it.

Centers built this franchise. We have a rare opportunity where an incredibly gifted 7 footer will be left on the board. You don't pass that up. Russell is nice, a very interesting player, but he's not an athletic freak with huge size. If we're talking about a guy like Wiggins, that's a different story. Russell is an average athlete, not very explosive, and not very strong either. He'll be a good player, i'm not sure he's the great player he's made out to be.

[iamworthy]

I keep going back to Okafor's hand size. When Phil Jackson talks about the differences between Kobe and MJ he always mentions that MJ's hand size allowed him to do things with the ball that kobe just couldnt do. If hand size gives you an advantage then Okafor is going to have one hell of a advantage.

[ALL HAIL]

except Clarkson is still projected more as a SG while Russell is mostly projected as a PG.

... Who can't guard PGs.

Imagine Russell trying to check Ty Lawson.

He's got the size to guard 2s, so I wouldn't really care about that anyways. Besides, there aren't may PGs capable of guarding their own position these days.

So much wrong here brother.

It doesn't matter that he can't guard PGs?

So Russell would have to exclusively be teamed with a backcourt mate who guards PGs?

You're glossing over defense like your name is Don Nelson himself.

Laughable.

[kblo247]

the it worked for kobe and fish on d thing ignores russell is weak and will be over powered by screen and post ups. Fish was a tank so when he switched on to a sg he stood a chance. Muiday is a better get if you go small with the pick

[ALL HAIL]

There really is no discussion here.

Let's not even make this a philosophical discussion. Let's make this a discussion about Russell and Okafor.

One, by virtue of who he is, would put up numbers on any college team. The other, ironically like two famous OSU alums* before him, seemingly needs the ball in his hands, as the focal point, to be "who he is".

There really is nothing to see here.

*Jimmy Jackson and Evan Turner.

[RingsDontLie]

Just gotta hope that Minnesota is following the media hype and chooses Towns, not Okafor. To me Okafor looks like the next Duncan, while Towns looks like a bigger Josh Smith.


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[knicksup19]

knicks fan here hoping russell falls to us..

I watch tons of college basketball okafor while a great offensive product doesnt rebound hit FT or play D.

Okafor= Al jefferson

Russell= damian Lilliard IMO..

If it was my choice i would take russell

[IAmTheBest]

As a Knicks fan who has been researching and observing Okafor and Russell for months, I have to say I think Russell is the better prospect and it is for that reason I hope the Lakers draft a bigman (so the Knicks can get a guard lol)

Russell has elite court vision, excellent handles, a smooth jumper, excellent passing ability, and a great height for a guard. The things he has like high BBIQ and court vision arent usually things that are teachable at this point. He also seems to have the killer instinct gene , already saying he's the best player in the draft (just like Clarkson said and look how he turned out for you guys). His biggest drawback is his lack of muscle - good thing A) he is still a kid and will put on more weight as he grows older with NBA facilities and diet B) Guards can easily cover lack of size and strength with skill. His game is extremely reminiscent of Curry's.

Okafor, on the other hand, is basically a guaranteed 24/10 player who knows how to pass the rock. The biggest issue is that he might turn into a lackluster defender, which is pretty significant for a center in today's game. That's not to say that he can become a pretty good defender, but i dont think he'll ever be elite on that end.

Then there is mudiay, an athletic specimen who could turn into a john wall/dwayne wade hybrid.

In any case you guys are looking in good shape whoever you choose.

but **** you all for taking our spot

[IAmTheBest]

knicks fan here hoping russell falls to us..

I watch tons of college basketball okafor while a great offensive product doesnt rebound hit FT or play D.

Okafor= Al jefferson

Russell= damian Lilliard IMO..

If it was my choice i would take russell

your comparisons are whack man