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god shammgod wrote:Dbloc123 wrote:According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back. New York Post
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
was just coming to post this. that was an interesting tidbit.
god shammgod wrote:knicks gotta get rid of jose. they need a little extra money.
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:knicks gotta get rid of jose. they need a little extra money.
well as of right now what do you need the extra $$$ for?
Say they get Carrol around 10 million per. They would have about more or less 17 million remaining. Basically you would have enough for a max spot unless you were getting Gasol or LMA which will all feel is still a long shot. So we wont need the super max I wouldn't believe.
Dbloc123 wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:knicks gotta get rid of jose. they need a little extra money.
well as of right now what do you need the extra $$$ for?
Say they get Carrol around 10 million per. They would have about more or less 17 million remaining. Basically you would have enough for a max spot unless you were getting Gasol or LMA which will all feel is still a long shot. So we wont need the super max I wouldn't believe.
Is that before or after signing our first rounder?
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:knicks gotta get rid of jose. they need a little extra money.
well as of right now what do you need the extra $$$ for?
Say they get Carrol around 10 million per. They would have about more or less 17 million remaining. Basically you would have enough for a max spot unless you were getting Gasol or LMA which will all feel is still a long shot. So we wont need the super max I wouldn't believe.
Thorn wrote:Ewing33 wrote:Just a few question for anyone posting about trading Melo...
1) How are we supposed to attract stars to this team through free agency if we don't give them someone to play with?
With the approach I am proposing we would not be looking to bring in big name free agents at this time, we would be in rebuild/retool mode. We would move any assets we have for picks and young players that fit the system. The win now mentality goes away along with the "sense of urgency" around landing big name free agents. After we reboot our franchise, and our young players start winning, within the winning culture we establish landing free agents is much easier.
2) Why would we trade our best player/biggest asset when he is coming off an injury and his value is as low as it could be right now? This is a great point, and generally I am not a fan of that... however we all know we held Melo out after the slow start so he could rest, recover, and so we could lose as many games as possible. Other GMs know this as well. Melo is still viewed as top 5-10 in the NBA by many. He has plenty of value, especially to a team looking to push through to the next level today.
3) If Phil traded Melo now, wouldn't it look bad to potential stars looking to sign with us that we show no loyalty to a guy who choose to re-sign with this rebuilding franchise instead of heading for greener pastures in Chicago (or hell, LA for that matter even though they weren't much better then we were)? I will say again, no. The Heat have built this way for years, as has every contending team in the league. Even the Mavericks who has an owner who is super loyal to his core makes the moves he needs to up to and including MAJOR parts of his team in order to stay relevant or improve their team. You have a commitment to the city, state,league, fans, and yourself to continue to do whatever it takes to allow you to compete. Long term or short term plans aside... more over it's a business and players jump ship and force trades all the time. Loyalty in business makes very little sense. If I get an offer tomorrow for twice my salary I am out of here.
Before you all bash me and say I'm bias and a Melo defender, just know I really don't like his game and would NEVER had made the trade that brought him here. To be honest, I'm still pissed we gave up three value players (Moz, Wilson and Gallo) and picks to bring a guy who could have signed with us in the off-season here. At the time I supported it, but the deal ended up as one I was not in favor of, we were fleeced by Denver and our owner pushed that trade through while our GM was not a fan of it. We gave up too much and that trade along with 10-12 years of mismanagement is why we are a franchise in disarray. We sacrificed our future again and again for star chasing.
While I don't like the guy, I still think it's a mistake to let him go. Ideally I see the offseason as a chance to retool and hopefully build a team through free agency that can compete and make 2016 free agents salivate about playing here. Lets be real here, while I hope we do, the chances of us getting Gasol, Aldridge or any of the restricted free agents worth signing (Butler or Green) are slim. It'd be smart to bring in players who add value as role players and mesh well with Melo and our #4 pick (I'm praying Russel or Okafor slip but I'd be happy with Mudiay as long as we let dude run some pick and rolls). Here's how I see the ideal offseason playing out. We will have to agree to disagree on the approach, and I respect your right to disagree as well as your opinion.
1st) Either trade Calderon or waive him and save the 4mil.
2nd) Trade Timmy for a mid first round pick (somewhere in the 8-13 range) if (and only if) Frank the Tank or WCS are available.
3rd) Keep on Gallo and guarantee his contract, but let Ledo walk.
4th) Extend Qualifying offers to both Wear and Acy and bring in Antetokounmpo from the D League.
5th) Use that 30 million or so in cap space to bring in Matthews (8m per for 2 years), Millsap (13 mil per for 3), and the remaining 10mil on one year contracts for role playing vets.
I know Matthews tore his achilles and the injury was nasty but he isn’t actually injury prone. He is apparently ahead of schedule. He could be back just as strong, but expectations should never be too high for someone suffering an injury like that. This could actually end up being a positive for us for as a lot of teams could pass on him, letting us make a lower offer to him.
As for Millsap, I LOVE his game and think he'd be great playing along side next to Melo. While I wouldn't pay more then 13 million, I think that would be enough to bring him here. Hopefully Phil can convince him to come and we steer clear of Greg Monroe and his want for a max contract, in today's NBA I wouldn't pay a slow footed big with lackluster D more then 8 mil per.
As for the remaining 10 million, I'd offer 8 to Brendan Wright on a one year contract with a player option for next year. With a chance to start, he could play himself into a big contract for next season (either with us or another team). The remaining two I'd offer to Mike Dunleavy on a one year contract. I'd sign 4 guys for the minimum for the year, hopefully one big like a Scola or K-Mart and two D league guys to ride the pine in suits with Wear.
New Line-Up (12 man, but I'd play 9)
C- Wright(28 mins)/Kaminsky(20 mins)
PF- Millsap (34 mins)/Acy(14 mins)
SF- Melo(34 mins)/Dunleavy(14 mins)
SG- Matthews(34 mins)/Dunleavy(4 mins)/Gallo(10 mins)
PG- Mudiay(34 mins)/Gallo(14 mins)
10th- Early
11th- Antetokounmpo
12th- Vet Min Big
IR: Wear, Vet Min, Vet Min
This line-up leaves us 10mil off the books for next year which should be enough to bring in a max contract guy if the cap jumps as high as expected. It's also pretty solid and should fit well together for pick and roll spacing with Mudiay running the point. Melo, Matthews and Millsap can all dial in from long range so a P 'n' R with Mudiay/Wright should create open shots or easy lanes for Mudiay to score himself or Wright easy dunks. We would also be pretty decent on D as well, not amazing but in the top 15 in the league.
Thoughts?
I think that line up is never going to get us anywhere near a championship, and since my goal is a championship I would have to say that would be a plan Z. Maybe not that far down on my list, but you know... swing for the fences first and settle later. I am saying go all in on one direction or another, and for me the best course of action is moving Melo while you can and get back out of him something for all we gave up.
New York Knicks With Carmelo:
2010–11 season - Swept in the first round by the Celtics.
2011–12 season - Eliminated in the first round in 5 games by the Heat, 4–1 (The Knicks 1st playoff win since 2001, say that out loud)
2012–13 season - Knicks' first playoff series win since 2000 (against the Celtics 1st round), only to be eliminated in the 2nd round by the Pacers in 6 games.
2013–14 season - We finished 9th in the East and missed the playoffs.
2014–15 season - Franchise worst ever record of 17-65, winning 6 meaningless games ot give up the best chance of landing the #1 pick in the draft.
So the best Melo has done for us is the second round? Winning ONE series? He is an amazing player, but he is neither a vocal leader nor a player who makes a team better. He needs to be on the floor with a guy who is all of that...
Enter: Kobe Bryant.
god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:knicks gotta get rid of jose. they need a little extra money.
well as of right now what do you need the extra $$$ for?
Say they get Carrol around 10 million per. They would have about more or less 17 million remaining. Basically you would have enough for a max spot unless you were getting Gasol or LMA which will all feel is still a long shot. So we wont need the super max I wouldn't believe.
because to get guys here you have to overpay a little. people are always acting like we're the only suitor for people. we're not.
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
well as of right now what do you need the extra $$$ for?
Say they get Carrol around 10 million per. They would have about more or less 17 million remaining. Basically you would have enough for a max spot unless you were getting Gasol or LMA which will all feel is still a long shot. So we wont need the super max I wouldn't believe.
because to get guys here you have to overpay a little. people are always acting like we're the only suitor for people. we're not.
yeah but even if we had to overpay for Carroll and Monroe we still would have enough room.
We could give Carroll 12 million (which is a massive overpay) and give Monroe his max at 15 and still come away with 2 starters in FA. Which was the plan.
Draft Mudiay and start young neckless at least that is a competitive young team with a lot of defensive potential. Not a lot of shot blocking but
Mudiay
Galloway
Carroll
Melo
Monroe
would be an interesting starting 5. But yes if you can move Calderon and Timmy in a trade you would free up another 9 million. You could theoretically bring in Danny Green, Demarre Carrol, and Greg Monroe. For about 35 million in total. Looking like this.
Mudiay
Danny Green
DeMarre Carroll
Melo
Monroe
Galloway would be your guard off the bench. Bring back shved for the room and cole, lance (ugh but they probably will), and amundson to round out the bench with Early and Thanasis.
mpharris36 wrote:I don't get the WCS and Monroe front court. While yes it works a little bit defensively. The offense flow and spacing would be atrocious. Melo would have absolutely no driving lanes.
swisscheeseD wrote:mpharris36 wrote:I don't get the WCS and Monroe front court. While yes it works a little bit defensively. The offense flow and spacing would be atrocious. Melo would have absolutely no driving lanes.
Myles Turner would be a much better fit next to a guy like Monroe in the front court. At least he'd provide the spacing necessary to make it work on offense, and he can be an elite rim protector.
And100 wrote:Thorn wrote:Having picks is one thing trading away picks, or moving them for established players in horrible draft day deals is another. Saying the Knicks have made sound decisions with draft picks would be laughable.
Would said that?
The point is, unless the Knicks somehow get Toronto to trade the 2018 pick back AND also get Denver to remove the swap right, whether the Knicks win 15 games or 65 will be INDEPENDENT of what the position of what pick they may or may not acquire.
They have no relationship to one another. To say you wouldn't mind another 15 win season if they had a pick is non-sensical.
What would be the point of another tank season if thy had someone else's pick?
KnicksGod wrote:And100 wrote:Thorn wrote:Having picks is one thing trading away picks, or moving them for established players in horrible draft day deals is another. Saying the Knicks have made sound decisions with draft picks would be laughable.
Would said that?
The point is, unless the Knicks somehow get Toronto to trade the 2018 pick back AND also get Denver to remove the swap right, whether the Knicks win 15 games or 65 will be INDEPENDENT of what the position of what pick they may or may not acquire.
They have no relationship to one another. To say you wouldn't mind another 15 win season if they had a pick is non-sensical.
What would be the point of another tank season if thy had someone else's pick?
It's 2016 that's traded. Our 2018 pick is free and clear.
mpharris36 wrote:You could do that trade with NY, Denver, and Sacromento. Where sacremento gets a couple vets (lawson and tim hardaway jr) for Karl. Nuggets get the #4 pick from the knicks. And the Knicks get the #6 and #7 picks from Sacremento.
Knicks would then pick justise winslow with the 6th pick (mudiay goes #4 to denver, and magic pick from porzingis and WCS at 5).
bigfnjoe96 wrote:mpharris36 wrote:You could do that trade with NY, Denver, and Sacromento. Where sacremento gets a couple vets (lawson and tim hardaway jr) for Karl. Nuggets get the #4 pick from the knicks. And the Knicks get the #6 and #7 picks from Sacremento.
Knicks would then pick justise winslow with the 6th pick (mudiay goes #4 to denver, and magic pick from porzingis and WCS at 5).
C'Mon mp you better than that. You really think all the knicks need to do is just give up the #4 pick and Trashaway and move down to 6 and 7. Your gonna have give Sacto a future 1st in order to possibly make that happen, along with some other sweetners
mpharris36 wrote:If the draft is top 4 heavy as everyone says it is, no will will not.
You can't just look at it like its going from 4 to 6. Its going from a A- type prospect to possibly a very risky euro or possibly role player that doesn't have all-star potential.
Go ask denver fans. Today they would give up 7 and Lawson for #4. 3 spots for acquiring lawson? Yep it will happen because the gap between 4 and 7 is large and to move out of 4 will be a huge coop for the knicks.
malik959 wrote:Wow, I can't stand when people put the blame on Melo. Those rosters sucked! When your second best player on a team is an inconsistent, ball hogging, maddador defense playing, night club hawk like JR Smith Your always going to look, smell, and be garbage. We signed Amare to a (say it with me now) $100,000,000 contact and he self injures in his first series as a Knick, then fails to play even 100 games as a Knick (something like that). You had no offense, garbage ass, non rebounding Chandler and do I really have to talk about Felton?
Our only hope was two players, one that had inconsistent offense and no defense and one that had inconsistent defense and no offense (cant wait to see him defend Curry, going to be funny as hell). This team was crap and the D-League players played better and were more entertaining.
bigfnjoe96 wrote:mpharris36 wrote:If the draft is top 4 heavy as everyone says it is, no will will not.
You can't just look at it like its going from 4 to 6. Its going from a A- type prospect to possibly a very risky euro or possibly role player that doesn't have all-star potential.
Go ask denver fans. Today they would give up 7 and Lawson for #4. 3 spots for acquiring lawson? Yep it will happen because the gap between 4 and 7 is large and to move out of 4 will be a huge coop for the knicks.
I get why Denver might do it. My question is what's the incentive for Sacto? You really can't tell me Sacto will just give up the 6th pick for Lawson and Trashaway and not expect any other assests in return