Bledsoe to the Kings. Pistons move up

[bwgood77]

I don't know that a player at 8 is going to be that much better than a player you can get at 13.

[NavLDO]

I don't know that a player at 8 is going to be that much better than a player you can get at 13.

Agreed. And as much heartache I've given about Bledsoe, losing him to move up 5 spots is not likely worth it to the Suns.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Turrible. If it were the 4th pick I would do it

8th is a joke

I here you bro, I'm sure you are aware of my propensity to build through the draft, more specifically, with focus on the top 6 or so of the lottery.

That is why I indicated in my earlier post that I'd prefer the New York trade first and foremost. However, the single worst thing I think we can do as a franchise is to not make any viable attempt to trade into the top 5 of the draft.

I believe that the New York trade that I posted a few trades earlier was a great deal for their needs, as well as ours.

That is what I hope and prefer above all.

A trade for the #4 with New York, We take Winslow. Keep our #13. Then trade it along with gerald green, marcus morris, and clevelands' 2016 first rounder to Charlotte for their pick, noah vonleh, and gerald henderson.



Now Winslow is easily at the top of my draft board for sure, but if he's gone in any scenario, I would consider taking a flier on porzingas( not a fan of his soft European play at times though) he reminds me of a 7'1 kirilenko.

Or Stanley Johnson, whose offense is developing. I see him as a cross between artest with his defense, and if his offense develops and he reaches his potential, Paul George.


I know that seems exceedingly generous right now, but I think his athleticism is really underrated.

My interest in the Sacramento trade is primarily based upon the 8th pick, getting stauskus, and collison while keeping our 13th pick for r.j. hunter or booker. Then of course taking dakari Johnson in the 2nd round.

[RunDogGun]

Green isn't under contract right now, so highly doubtful that a draft pick from this draft will be in a trade along with Green.

But again, very few teams can rebuild through the draft. It's all about luck, and a hope that not only does the talent live up to the hype, but gel together. With that very slim margin, I don't think McD will go that route. Plus our main issue was lack of floor leadership, and I just don't see rookies making that better.

[Scutt]

Green isn't under contract right now, so highly doubtful that a draft pick from this draft will be in a trade along with Green.

But again, very few teams can rebuild through the draft. It's all about luck, and a hope that not only does the talent live up to the hype, but gel together. With that very slim margin, I don't think McD will go that route. Plus our main issue was lack of floor leadership, and I just don't see rookies making that better.

You really think our main issue is simply lack of veteran leadership? I would say we are lacking in talent, across the boards. We need a star player to build around, its the main issue we have been dealing with since Nash left. Hopefully Alex Len becomes that.

You say that very few teams build through the draft, but just look at the Western conference, the majority of teams obtained their initial building blocks through the draft. The only teams that went the trade/ free agency route are the Grizzlies, Houston, and Denver. I would argue Denver is the only team worse off than the Suns right now, but maybe they can get someone with the #7 pick they got this year. Dallas doesn't have much going for them in the next few years, but they got job done already. They worked out a draft day deal to get Dirk and ended up winning a championship. Stars are not choosing Phoenix in free agency and we are not going to trade for one, with mid first round picks all the time, so what's wrong with building through the draft? Everyone else seems to use it...

Golden State - Drafted Curry
Houston - Used tade/free angecy to obtain franchise players
L.A. Clippers- Drafted Blake Griffin
Portland - Drafted Lamarcus Aldridge and Lillard
Memphis - Used tade/free angecy to obtain franchise players
San Antonio - Drafted Tim Duncan
Dallas - Drafted Dirk
New Orleans - Drafted Anthony Davis
Oklahoma City - Drafted Durant and Westbrook
Phoenix - Drafted Alex Len
ill out)Utah - Drafted Haywood and Gobert
Denver - Used tade/free agency to obtain franchise players
Sacramento - Drafted Demarcus Cousins
L.A. Lakers - Drafted Kobe, tanked last year and this year to get two top picks.
Minnesota- Drafted Kevin Love, which turned into Wiggens and they have the #1 pick this year.

[RunDogGun]

One or two bricks does not make a wall. It's darn near impossible to build or rebuild through the draft. It takes a good combination of three things: quality drafting (often very lucky, many top picks don't stay with their teams now a days), getting the right FAs that fit your system, and making good trades.

Yes, our main issue was lack of leadership on the floor. Because both Goran and Bledsoe was inconsistent, and never lead the team, IT saw it as a means to break into the starting line up. All of this created a me first, not team first atmosphere. Both Morri were leaned upon, and did not rise to the challenge.

Very few draftees rise up to lead a team, and over the years with more and more one and done freshman entering the draft, GMs are stuck with choosing potential over actual known and quality skill. Many rookie contracts dont see that player yielding great results in their first or second season. Many only hit their stride right before their rookie contract is up.

I don't see anyone that is attainable in this draft for us that will move the needle in the direction of championship. And of the super young we currently have, we've only seen slightly above just role players. If Warren can become a much better defender, and extend his range, he has a good shot. Len, to me, will just be a decent role player, if he can stay healthy. Goodwin is a long ways away, yet thinks he is much better than he is.

If you think differently, cool, not my concern. But in the thirty plus years I've been following this team, I don't see many teams having success building through the draft. Most teams require draft, FA, and trade success to fully build anything of quality.

[RunDogGun]

Also, many of the teams you listed have won the lottery when there was a clear number one choice. Suns have never won the lottery.

Next, both Portland and Minny made draft day trades to secure both LMA and Love respectfully, either team could have been stuck with Tyrus Thomas or Oj Mayo respectfully. Drafts are a crapshoot. OKC could have been stuck with Oden.

[kennydorglas]

That's not a bad trade at all.
I'm not high on Stauskas, but he was better than Booker in his Frosh YR.

I'd be intrigued.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Both very valid points,

Also sorry run, my bad. I forgot that gren was expiring. Switch him with bullock.

Anyhow, I would love if we could accomodate our pressing needs through free agency. But for whatever the reason, we just seem to keep wiffing on any player with talent or value.

The beauty of the draft is in that you can if you are assertive, very possibly position yourself to acquire such a young talent. It's not at the players' discretion who drafts them, but the franchise.

At wich point you then maintain contractual control of that talent for quite a few years. So I would much rather take a chance on the draft, than free agency wherein you have primadonna players, snubbing us, and looking to build superteams.

Finally, either way, wether it be the draft or free agency, we aren't going to be competing viably until our youngsters develop. So why not the draft?

[RunDogGun]

Both very valid points,

Also sorry run, my bad. I forgot that gren was expiring. Switch him with bullock.

Anyhow, I would love if we could accomodate our pressing needs through free agency. But for whatever the reason, we just seem to keep wiffing on any player with talent or value.

The beauty of the draft is in that you can if you are assertive, very possibly position yourself to acquire such a young talent. It's not at the players' discretion who drafts them, but the franchise.

At wich point you then maintain contractual control of that talent for quite a few years. So I would much rather take a chance on the draft, than free agency wherein you have primadonna players, snubbing us, and looking to build superteams.

Finally, either way, wether it be the draft or free agency, we aren't going to be competing viably until our youngsters develop. So why not the draft?

Like I said, you need all three draft, FA, and trade. Drafting is tough just because so many haven't developed their skills in college. Many lack the fundamentals needed for success at the next level. It's very tough on a coaching staff to develop too many youngsters. Many won't fit your system, and many get frustrated early because of either lack of maturity, drive, or an overinflated sense of worth.

Overall, there is very little chance we move a bunch of guys r more draft picks, and this Detroit deal is very bad. Sometimes when you keep choosing door number three, you get stuck with a big jar of Bosco, instead of the kitchen set you already have.

I still have higher hopes for Bullock then to just throw him into a trade.

[Scutt]

I don't see anyone that is attainable in this draft for us that will move the needle in the direction of championship. And of the super young we currently have, we've only seen slightly above just role players. If Warren can become a much better defender, and extend his range, he has a good shot. Len, to me, will just be a decent role player, if he can stay healthy. Goodwin is a long ways away, yet thinks he is much better than he is.

He is already much more than a decent role player. As a raw 21 year old, playing his first real meaningful minutes in the NBA, Alex Len averaged 6.9 points, 7.7 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks as a starter last year. Big men take longer to develop, and Len is already putting up solid numbers. You don't think he will continue to improve at all?

Of our 3 super young guys, Len, Warren, and Goodwin, I am the most excited by Len and it is not even close. I think he has the potential to be a perennial all-star, if he stays healthy. Guards and forwards are a dime a dozen but having a 7'1 center, who is agile and has a good shooting touch, is much harder to come by.

[RunDogGun]

7/7/1.9 is barely a role player for me. Moreover, the problem is he can't stay healthy. So, I'm not expecting much. If he turns into a borderline allstar, awesome, but even Plumlee was a double double player in his second year, for most of the first season of starting, and look what most think about him.

I like Len, but dang, Wright did a better job as a starter.

[Mr-Al]

I don't see anyone that is attainable in this draft for us that will move the needle in the direction of championship. And of the super young we currently have, we've only seen slightly above just role players. If Warren can become a much better defender, and extend his range, he has a good shot. Len, to me, will just be a decent role player, if he can stay healthy. Goodwin is a long ways away, yet thinks he is much better than he is.

He is already much more than a decent role player. As a raw 21 year old, playing his first real meaningful minutes in the NBA, Alex Len averaged 6.9 points, 7.7 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks as a starter last year. Big men take longer to develop, and Len is already putting up solid numbers. You don't think he will continue to improve at all?

Of our 3 super young guys, Len, Warren, and Goodwin, I am the most excited by Len and it is not even close. I think he has the potential to be a perennial all-star, if he stays healthy. Guards and forwards are a dime a dozen but having a 7'1 center, who is agile and has a good shooting touch, is much harder to come by.

exactly ^

I like Len, but dang, Wright did a better job as a starter.

Dude what the **** are you even talking about? Wright is a 27 year old veteran, of course he's going to look a bit more competent

Those stats mean absolutely nothing

By your logic, according to almost every player's rookie stats, they all project to be role players


Last season was basically Len's rookie season and he did fantastic. No one in their right minds can say he will just be a decent role player, considering his youth and inexperience, he was huge for us last year. Maybe in 2-3 years you could accurately project his ceiling

Len is objectively probably the most valuable player on the team and I would still take him 5th any day



(Giannis and Gobert were taken so low that no one knew how good they'd be, but out of that draft Gobert, Giannis, and Len have the best chances of becoming top players)

[RunDogGun]

The problem with your logic, is this season wasn't Len's rookie season. And you can't say it was basically his rookie season. It wasn't. So don't lecture me about my logic and use a false statement to justify your chastising.

It doesn't matter Wright's age, he played better as a starter than Len did. You can't discredit Wright's performance because he is older.

Look it's not my fault that in Len's rookie season, the game was too fast for him (his words). It's not my fault that Len can't stay healthy enough to stay on the floor. Right now, he is putting up less than average numbers as a starter. Guys that came of the bench behind him, outplayed him, and no Wright's stats as a starter aren't meaningless. You only say that because you can't deny he outplayed Len as a starter.

I like Len, but man your argument sucked. He is injury prone, and has put up average numbers. If he can't turn his third season (and yes, it's his third season), into a double double starter, we should look for an upgrade at the center spot.

Damn, Bledsoe puts up 17/5/6 and almost everyone wants to get rid of him, but those same people love a 7/7/2 guy that can't make it through a season uninjured?

[Scutt]

I forgot to mention, those starting numbers from Alex Len were done in only 24 minutes a game. The Suns were 21-17 when he was a starter, and 12-13 with him on the bench. He is basically ignored on offense, and he is putting up 10.6, 10.9, and 2.6 blocks per 36, in his 2nd year in the league. If he can stay healthy and play full starter minutes, he is going to be much more than a role player.

[RunDogGun]

I forgot to mention, those starting numbers from Alex Len were done in only 24 minutes a game. The Suns were 21-17 when he was a starter, and 12-13 with him on the bench. He is basically ignored on offense, and he is putting up 10.6, 10.9, and 2.6 blocks per 36, in his 2nd year in the league. If he can stay healthy and play full starter minutes, he is going to be much more than a role player.

What you also forgot to mention was the reason he was only playing 24 minutes per game, which was he was a risk for another injury, and he had constant pain in his foot. You guess all day at what he could be, but I'm talking about what he currently is. And again, Wright completely outplayed Len when we put Wright in the starting lineup. I guess Wright is so much more than a role player?

Oh well, this will go nowhere, for I sure hope Len can be more than just a role player. But for now, he isn't doing much.

[Qwigglez]

Back to the original poster, I would make a deal of Bledsoe for Staukas and the 6th pick. I'd pick WCS. He reminds me of a mix of Andre Drummond and Amare Stoudemire. Then with our 13th pick choose Devin Booker.

[JohnWall2]

I forgot to mention, those starting numbers from Alex Len were done in only 24 minutes a game. The Suns were 21-17 when he was a starter, and 12-13 with him on the bench. He is basically ignored on offense, and he is putting up 10.6, 10.9, and 2.6 blocks per 36, in his 2nd year in the league. If he can stay healthy and play full starter minutes, he is going to be much more than a role player.

Quoting his per 36 is all well and good but would he physically ever be able to handle playing anything close to 36 mins a night? He certainly hasn't as of yet. His current numbers are average and he has a long way to go before we can call him an upper tier starting centre in this league.

[Mr-Al]

The problem with your logic, is this season wasn't Len's rookie season. And you can't say it was basically his rookie season. It wasn't. So don't lecture me about my logic and use a false statement to justify your chastising.

It doesn't matter Wright's age, he played better as a starter than Len did. You can't discredit Wright's performance because he is older.

Look it's not my fault that in Len's rookie season, the game was too fast for him (his words). It's not my fault that Len can't stay healthy enough to stay on the floor. Right now, he is putting up less than average numbers as a starter. Guys that came of the bench behind him, outplayed him, and no Wright's stats as a starter aren't meaningless. You only say that because you can't deny he outplayed Len as a starter.

I like Len, but man your argument sucked. He is injury prone, and has put up average numbers. If he can't turn his third season (and yes, it's his third season), into a double double starter, we should look for an upgrade at the center spot.

Damn, Bledsoe puts up 17/5/6 and almost everyone wants to get rid of him, but those same people love a 7/7/2 guy that can't make it through a season uninjured?

wow, it's not even worth it

[Mr-Al]

I forgot to mention, those starting numbers from Alex Len were done in only 24 minutes a game. The Suns were 21-17 when he was a starter, and 12-13 with him on the bench. He is basically ignored on offense, and he is putting up 10.6, 10.9, and 2.6 blocks per 36, in his 2nd year in the league. If he can stay healthy and play full starter minutes, he is going to be much more than a role player.

This. That's the end of the argument