Poll: Who should the Wolves take with the #1 overall pick?

Post #1361 » by **Worm Guts** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:07 am

I think Russell has got a pass on this board, but there's been a long discussion on Towns vs Okafor. I have a hard time saying either has gotten a free pass.

Saltine · Post #1362 » by **Saltine** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:11 am

Okafor still can't shoot, and didn't feel like playing much defense when given the opportunity... not much new to hype there.

urinesane · Post #1363 » by **urinesane** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:14 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFp1v9Oufxo[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7feDM8cIQ[/youtube]

Watch both of these games. Kentucky won by 2 and Duke won by 10.

If you ask me Towns had a lot more to do with his team winning than Okafor did.

Sure they aren't direct comparisons, because Kaminsky is bigger than Martin, but I like how many ways it seemed Towns was having a positive impact on the game, outside of scoring.

It seemed like Okafor was solid on the post, but looked pretty brutal defensively.

Here's another where Okafor didn't seem to have a huge impact against a big center.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocV7v0W5IA8[/youtube]

Post #1364 » by **C.lupus** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:14 am

Krapinsky wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
Takingbaconback wrote:I feel like the poll will be closer

Why? Okafor hasn't suddenly become better since the season ended and Towns hasn't become worse.

I agree with TBB. It's just the how the wave of media scrutiny goes from one player to another. Okafor was the runaway #1 but couldn't hold up to the scrutiny. Towns has got pretty much a free pass so far. No one mentions how he was held out of games at the beginning of the year, how he wasn't deemed aggressive enough, and how he scored like 4 points or less in 7 games this year. D'angelo has a DX video devoted to his strengths and completely ignores any weaknesses. So I have a feeling the wind is going to blow back the other way a bit and judging by some articles I've read lately hyping Okafor, I'd say it's already begun.

Here ya go:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5BtA2JdOBY[/youtube]

TRKO · Post #1365 » by **TRKO** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:16 am

Krapinsky wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
Takingbaconback wrote:I feel like the poll will be closer

Why? Okafor hasn't suddenly become better since the season ended and Towns hasn't become worse.

I agree with TBB. It's just the how the wave of media scrutiny goes from one player to another. Okafor was the runaway #1 but couldn't hold up to the scrutiny. Towns has got pretty much a free pass so far. No one mentions how he was held out of games at the beginning of the year, how he wasn't deemed aggressive enough, and how he scored like 4 points or less in 7 games this year. D'angelo has a DX video devoted to his strengths and completely ignores any weaknesses. So I have a feeling the wind is going to blow back the other way a bit and judging by some articles I've read lately hyping Okafor, I'd say it's already begun.

You bring up some good concerns. Why should we pick a guy first who on multiple occasions got pulled for poor play? Why couldn't the best defensive big in the draft keep up with Kamminsky?

On coach Calipari saying Towns was his best three point shooter, if that is true then he is an even worse in game coach than I thought. Why not use one of your biggest assets? He says his goal is to get his guys drafted, if so why would you hide a player's strength? Why are kids lining up to play for this guy?

Post #1366 » by **Worm Guts** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:22 am

Well Kentucky went 38-1 and Towns is in the discussion for the #1 pick. Maybe Calipari has some idea what he's doing.

TRKO · Post #1367 » by **TRKO** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:34 am

Worm Guts wrote:Well Kentucky went 38-1 and Towns is in the discussion for the #1 pick. Maybe Calipari has some idea what he's doing.

Or maybe he just has the best kids on his team year after year. Outstanding recruiter, average in game coach.

TRKO · Post #1368 » by **TRKO** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:36 am

Saltine wrote:Okafor still can't shoot, and didn't feel like playing much defense when given the opportunity... not much new to hype there.

Okafor can't shoot?

Post #1369 » by **The J Rocka** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:38 am

A lot of Russell's weaknesses are out of his control since he wasn't born a freak of nature.

He makes up for his weaknesses with a strong BBIQ, elite ability to shoot, great court vision, and can rebound exceptionally well for his size.

We can talk about how he doesn't drive enough or he doesn't use his right hand enough. Those things can be fixed.

He's not the strongest defender, but he at least uses 6'9.75 wingspan to deflect many passes and collect steals. He can at least work to be average. Stephen Curry did the same thing - he disrupted the passing lanes and could get steals.

urinesane · Post #1370 » by **urinesane** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:40 am

Another interesting aspect to the Okafor debate, is that most people think he should be the #1 scorer for the Wolves, but even though he scored the most total points for Duke this season. He was only the top scorer in 14 of 38 games he played in.

Those 14 teams include:

Presbyterian(Won by 69 points)
Furman (Won by 39)
Army (Won by 20)
Elon (Won by 13)
Toledo (Won by 17)
Wofford(Won by 29)
Boston College(Won by 23)
NC State (Lost by 12)
Notre Dame(Lost by 4)
Notre Dame(Won by 30)
Syracuse(Won by 8)
Virginia Tech(Won by 5 in OT)
Notre Dame(Lost by 10)
San Diego State(Won by 19)

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire against the best teams... and most of his leading scoring games were blowouts.

The more I look into Okafor, the less appealing he is as a #1 pick. I hope Flip can see through the hype and take Towns.

TRKO · Post #1371 » by **TRKO** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:46 am

urinesane wrote:Another interesting aspect to the Okafor debate, is that most people think he should be the #1 scorer for the Wolves, but even though he scored the most total points for Duke this season. He was only the top scorer in 14 of 38 games he played in.

Those 14 teams include:

Presbyterian(W)
Furman (W)
Army (W)
Elon (W)
Toledo (W)
Wofford(W)
Boston College(W)
NC State (L)
Notre Dame(L)
Notre Dame(W)
Syracuse(W)
Virginia Tech(W)
Notre Dame(L)
San Diego State(W)

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire against the best teams...

The more I look into Okafor, the less appealing he is as a #1 pick. I hope Flip can see through the hype and take Towns.

And Towns scored less than 10 points in more than half of his games. Statistics don't paint the full picture. If you watch the games you will see Okafor, Towns, and Russell are all worthy of the top pick discussion.

urinesane · Post #1372 » by **urinesane** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:46 am

TRKO wrote:
Saltine wrote:Okafor still can't shoot, and didn't feel like playing much defense when given the opportunity... not much new to hype there.

Okafor can't shoot?

He hasn't shown anything that would lead someone to think he can right now.

urinesane · Post #1373 » by **urinesane** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:49 am

TRKO wrote:
urinesane wrote:Another interesting aspect to the Okafor debate, is that most people think he should be the #1 scorer for the Wolves, but even though he scored the most total points for Duke this season. He was only the top scorer in 14 of 38 games he played in.

Those 14 teams include:

Presbyterian(W)
Furman (W)
Army (W)
Elon (W)
Toledo (W)
Wofford(W)
Boston College(W)
NC State (L)
Notre Dame(L)
Notre Dame(W)
Syracuse(W)
Virginia Tech(W)
Notre Dame(L)
San Diego State(W)

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire against the best teams...

The more I look into Okafor, the less appealing he is as a #1 pick. I hope Flip can see through the hype and take Towns.

And Towns scored less than 10 points in more than half of his games. Statistics don't paint the full picture. If you watch the games you will see Okafor, Towns, and Russell are all worthy of the top pick discussion.

Towns offense isn't his main selling point, Okafor's is and this just shows that his offense while impressive footwork wise was mainly displayed against weak teams.

Towns doesn't have to be the leading scorer, that wouldn't be his role on the Wolves (or any other team at least to start). Okafor does have to be the leading scorer, because you have to run your offense through him. If you're changing your offense to accommodate 1 player with one elite skill (post offense) and he doesn't play defense. He sure as hell better be your lead scorer... and not just in blowouts vs weak competition.

Otherwise there is ZERO justification for drafting him #1.

AQuintus · Post #1374 » by **AQuintus** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:57 am

TRKO wrote:Why couldn't the best defensive big in the draft keep up with Kamminsky?

He could. The majority of Kaminsky's points game about either when Towns and WCS were on the bench or off of designed switches (where Towns and WCS were no longer on him).

Here's Draftexpress's video breakdown of the matchup between Kaminsky and Towns and WCS:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpXYhpSIS4[/youtube]

Kaminsky had 20 points on 7 of 11 shooting.

Of those 7 makes:

2 came against WCS where he got caught on a screen.
2 came off of nice post moves from Kaminsky against WCS.
1 was a result of a switch.
1 was a nicely contested 3 against Towns (his help was late).

The final make isn't in the video, but was presumably against someone that isn't Towns or WCS.

Further, Towns was the Kentucky offense in that game, he had 16 points on 7/11 shooting and 5 O-boards. Kentucky would have won that game if they had kept on feeding Towns in the post, but unfortunately, Andrew Harrison got selfish.

Edit:

I've gone even deeper, according to the play-by-play Kaminsky's free throws came about because:

Booker fouled him. (1/1 FT)
WCS fouled him. (1/2 FT)
WCS fouled him. (3/4 FT)
Marcus Lee fouled him (5/6 FT)

So, Towns was responsible for exactly 3 of Kaminsky's 20 points, and he contested that shot nicely. Otherwise, as the video showed, Towns did an excellent job containing Kaminsky.

Post #1375 » by **Worm Guts** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:59 am

TRKO wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Well Kentucky went 38-1 and Towns is in the discussion for the #1 pick. Maybe Calipari has some idea what he's doing.

Or maybe he just has the best kids on his team year after year. Outstanding recruiter, average in game coach.

Kentucky was probably OK either way, but Towns draft status definitely benefited from proving himself as an interior force. Unless you're Durant or Nowitzki, NBA teams prefer big men who can dominate inside.

mondry · Post #1376 » by **mondry** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:30 am

Worm Guts wrote:
TRKO wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Well Kentucky went 38-1 and Towns is in the discussion for the #1 pick. Maybe Calipari has some idea what he's doing.

Or maybe he just has the best kids on his team year after year. Outstanding recruiter, average in game coach.

Kentucky was probably OK either way, but Towns draft status definitely benefited from proving himself as an interior force. Unless you're Durant or Nowitzki, NBA teams prefer big men who can dominate inside.

Yeah, honestly this is one of the things I see as a plus for towns and coach Calipari. He was a shooter in high school and very raw as a post up big man so to have him come that far in 1 season is pretty amazing.

I mean really, before the season and before Towns improved so much, he wasn't the over all consensus #1 pick was he?

FargoWolf · Post #1377 » by **FargoWolf** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:39 am

I don't think Cal is a great offensive coach, offensively UK looked like an AAU all-star team at times. Defensively though I think he is one of the best minds in the college game and he is obviously the top recruiter.

I think he really helped Towns by forcing him to become a low post presence and really UK needed a guy they could count on in the post offensively. If they had fed him at the end of the Wisconsin game consistently, they probably win.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #1378 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:42 am

urinesane wrote:Another interesting aspect to the Okafor debate, is that most people think he should be the #1 scorer for the Wolves, but even though he scored the most total points for Duke this season. He was only the top scorer in 14 of 38 games he played in.

Those 14 teams include:

Presbyterian(Won by 69 points)
Furman (Won by 39)
Army (Won by 20)
Elon (Won by 13)
Toledo (Won by 17)
Wofford(Won by 29)
Boston College(Won by 23)
NC State (Lost by 12)
Notre Dame(Lost by 4)
Notre Dame(Won by 30)
Syracuse(Won by 8)
Virginia Tech(Won by 5 in OT)
Notre Dame(Lost by 10)
San Diego State(Won by 19)

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire against the best teams... and most of his leading scoring games were blowouts.

The more I look into Okafor, the less appealing he is as a #1 pick. I hope Flip can see through the hype and take Towns.

Okafor had to deal with the focus of the defense every game this year. His ability to play throught the attention allowed his teammates to get theirs.

Okafor doesn have to be the 1 option on the wolves, he can make life easier for wiggs and vice versa.

urinesane · Post #1379 » by **urinesane** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:09 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:
urinesane wrote:Another interesting aspect to the Okafor debate, is that most people think he should be the #1 scorer for the Wolves, but even though he scored the most total points for Duke this season. He was only the top scorer in 14 of 38 games he played in.

Those 14 teams include:

Presbyterian(Won by 69 points)
Furman (Won by 39)
Army (Won by 20)
Elon (Won by 13)
Toledo (Won by 17)
Wofford(Won by 29)
Boston College(Won by 23)
NC State (Lost by 12)
Notre Dame(Lost by 4)
Notre Dame(Won by 30)
Syracuse(Won by 8)
Virginia Tech(Won by 5 in OT)
Notre Dame(Lost by 10)
San Diego State(Won by 19)

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire against the best teams... and most of his leading scoring games were blowouts.

The more I look into Okafor, the less appealing he is as a #1 pick. I hope Flip can see through the hype and take Towns.

Okafor had to deal with the focus of the defense every game this year. His ability to play throught the attention allowed his teammates to get theirs.

Okafor doesn have to be the 1 option on the wolves, he can make life easier for wiggs and vice versa.

If Okafor isn't the #1 option, than Towns is a better pick. He makes life easier for teammates on both sides of the ball (Okafor makes it tougher at least on defense, and tougher on offense for Rubio).

jpatrick · Post #1380 » by **jpatrick** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:10 am

http://zagsblog.com/articles/towns-will-interview-with-wolves-lakers-wont-do-workouts/

Says Towns won't workout for us or the Lakers. This is very disappointing. With his shooting, he'd kill it. I wonder if this is his way of pushing for LA.

Edit: just listened to Flip's interview. This news is especially disappointing given Flip mentioned how important workouts can be, especially for Towns to show his shooting.