Draftexpress drops Mudiay down to pick #6 today

[GONYK]

Draft just went from a 4 star draft to a 3 star draft. We're getting stuck with a role player instead of a franchise player because Fisher wasn't with team tank.

Yup. If only he had won 1-4 more games, we'd be sitting pretty.

[Dantares]

So should we be interested in Montrezl Harrell as well? There's no bigger competitor in college basketball than Harrell. Harrell is a warrior and he's a gym rat extraordinaire.

there is a difference of talent though. Of course you just don't take "hard workers". You have to obviously have a combination of both talent to be picked that high and potential.

I mean there is a reason Winslow is mocked to be a 4 to 7 guy in most drafts and Harrell is mocked to be in the early to mid 20's in most mocks.

Scouts and talent evaluators must see a large talent jump between the two, you don't? I don't think its fair to compare those too talent wise (and that is no knock on Harrell) I just think Winslow has more talent then you are suggesting. Enough to crack the top 5? That has yet to be determined. But "role" player is pretty harsh for him.

role player is appropriate. If you can't create your own shot then you are a role player or "complimentary" player if you like that word better. what happens when a good role player is not surrounded by all-stars? I will tell you what happens, you get Courtney lee in Houston/Celtics or Tayshaun Prince in Detroit after billups, sheed and rip left.

My problem with Justise is creating shots is considered a weakness for him, that means he has to get average at it, then we expect him to take another level and become great at it. probably not going to happen. his handles, creativity and mid-range are not good for a shooting guard which is what he will probably be forced to play in the nba.

I don't think for a second anyone doubts phil's ability to evaluate talent. If Phil drafts winslow because he thinks he can be great than that is fantastic. if he drafts him because melo likes him and he wants us to win sooner then I will be crushed. our franchise will be in the same position as Riley and the heat in 2016, trying to make a desperate pitch to a superstar instead of growing one of our own

[shtolky]

Is this the same Draftexpress that gave the then Sonics a grade of a C the year they drafted Westbrook AND Ibaka.

"Possibly more than any team in the league, Seattle’s adventure on Thursday is one that cannot really be properly evaluated for at least 2-3 years. Russell Westbrook is a player that may or may not prove to be worthy of starting at either backcourt position in the NBA, and taking him fourth was definitely a surprise looking at some of the other players that were on the board here. Is Westbrook enough of a playmaker to be a starting NBA point guard in time? And if not, is he big enough, and a good enough ball-handler, outside shooter and all-around scorer to start at the 2? He can surely defend well enough at either position, but considering that he might need a very particular type of lead-guard alongside him—was he worthy of being drafted fourth overall? On first glance the answer to that seems to be no, but Sam Presti might know something that we don’t…"


Guys...do yourselves a favor and treat mock drafts as entertainment, because that is all they are right now. Historically the draft is a crap shoot with only a handful of players as can't miss. This year, those players don't exist, that is, someone almost guaranteed for amazing success. But, this is a draft with some very nice talent at the top and we are picking near the top, so stop whining already.

[Iron Mantis]

This doesn't mean anything. Mudiay has scheduled workouts with LA, Philly, and NY as per Zagoria. There is still the possibility of him going in the top 3. I personally do not see him slipping past us at 4. He has too much potential.

lol If he works our for Philly, He's gone at 3. Book it.

[NOOB77]

I would rather trade down and draft Stanley Johnson then Winslow or WCS at 4

[Iron Mantis]

Winslow > Mudiay

[mpharris36]

If you're not a star though, you're basically on the spectrum of a role player. I don't think it is harsh to project Winslow as such.

I do agree that he is more skilled and projects to have more of an impact than someone like Harrell though.

if we are going to stretch the spectrum of a role player to someone that can be the 3rd or 4th best player on a team to the 9th or 10th guy coming off the bench playing 10 to 15 minutes then yes I guess he is in the spectrum of a role player.

I don't see Winslow as a specialist and I don't see him as someone the defense can just no defend or layoff do the the fact he can get to the basket and finish with his size and athleticism. I think there is a large gap between someone like Winslow and WCS because I see potential to become really good offensive player with a more consistent shot.

I would quantify WCS as more of a role player than Winslow because of potential. Winslow is a 2-way player I weigh that a little more than just a role player. Could he be one? Yes. And every prospect has some potential to bust.

Again, if I am put in the position I am taking one of the top 4 consensus guys but I was more responding to the notion Winslow should be classified as a role player because just like all the other top 4 guys they all need to improve aspects of there game to become all-star caliber players.

[GONYK]

If you're not a star though, you're basically on the spectrum of a role player. I don't think it is harsh to project Winslow as such.

I do agree that he is more skilled and projects to have more of an impact than someone like Harrell though.

if we are going to stretch the spectrum of a role player to someone that can be the 3rd or 4th best player on a team to the 9th or 10th guy coming off the bench playing 10 to 15 minutes then yes I guess he is in the spectrum of a role player.

I don't see Winslow as a specialist and I don't see him as someone the defense can just no defend or layoff do the the fact he can get to the basket and finish with his size and athleticism. I think there is a large gap between someone like Winslow and WCS because I see potential to become really good offensive player with a more consistent shot.

I would quantify WCS as more of a role player than Winslow because of potential. Winslow is a 2-way player I weigh that a little more than just a role player. Could he be one? Yes. And every prospect has some potential to bust.

Again, if I am put in the position I am taking one of the top 4 consensus guys but I was more responding to the notion Winslow should be classified as a role player because just like all the other top 4 guys they all need to improve aspects of there game to become all-star caliber players.

What do you consider someone like Andre Iguodala?

[mpharris36]

So should we be interested in Montrezl Harrell as well? There's no bigger competitor in college basketball than Harrell. Harrell is a warrior and he's a gym rat extraordinaire.

there is a difference of talent though. Of course you just don't take "hard workers". You have to obviously have a combination of both talent to be picked that high and potential.

I mean there is a reason Winslow is mocked to be a 4 to 7 guy in most drafts and Harrell is mocked to be in the early to mid 20's in most mocks.

Scouts and talent evaluators must see a large talent jump between the two, you don't? I don't think its fair to compare those too talent wise (and that is no knock on Harrell) I just think Winslow has more talent then you are suggesting. Enough to crack the top 5? That has yet to be determined. But "role" player is pretty harsh for him.

role player is appropriate. If you can't create your own shot then you are a role player or "complimentary" player if you like that word better. what happens when a good role player is not surrounded by all-stars? I will tell you what happens, you get Courtney lee in Houston/Celtics or Tayshaun Prince in Detroit after billups, sheed and rip left.

My problem with Justise is creating shots is considered a weakness for him, that means he has to get average at it, then we expect him to take another level and become great at it. probably not going to happen. his handles, creativity and mid-range are not good for a shooting guard which is what he will probably be forced to play in the nba.

I don't think for a second anyone doubts phil's ability to evaluate talent. If Phil drafts winslow because he thinks he can be great than that is fantastic. if he drafts him because melo likes him and he wants us to win sooner then I will be crushed. our franchise will be in the same position as Riley and the heat in 2016, trying to make a desperate pitch to a superstar instead of growing one of our own

he also just turned 19 years old. So you don't think he can improve his playmaking? And in general if he is our selection he will be playing in a system that doesn't require a single player to playmake. The offense is the playmaker with ball movement and player movement.

I'm sorry I don't consider Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard. They both came into the NBA with less than explosive offensive games and they worked to become legit threats. Would they be a #1 option on a title contender today? No way they don't have that skillset but what they do have is an elite way of effective the game without consistently scoring 25+ point a night.

[mpharris36]

What do you consider someone like Andre Iguodala?

At this point in his career? Role player. But I didn't consider him a role player in him prime. When he was an all-star and an olympic champion. He was a key contributor.

Was he ever going to be a #1 option on a top tier team, No, but he was a good secondary piece (a "robin" per say) to an elite scorer.

I even think WInslow has a little more shooting potential than Iggy. Even in his prime Iggy was shooting around 31% from 3.

Winslow took a lot more 3's and hit them at a much much better rate than Iggy did at Arizona. I think he was below 30% (26% about in his college career in 2 years). Winslow took just as many 3's that iggy did in 1 year and shot 15% higher over 40%.

If he is a better shooting version of iguadala we have a very very very good player on our hands.

[Dr. Detfink]

After the top 2 picks, the remaining talent from 3-10 can just as easily be flip-flopped on ANY of these "projected" drafts on website du jour. So I'm not convinced just cause Mudiay is #6 on this site and #4 on another.

[Deeeez Knicks]

i dont even know anymore. one day i think there are like 5 or 6 stars in this draft, the next i think everyone minus 1 or 2 will be bums.

just pick the right guy Phil...for once we need something to go our way.

[Capn'O]

Draft just went from a 4 star draft to a 3 star draft. We're getting stuck with a role player instead of a franchise player because Fisher wasn't with team tank.

Yup. If only he had won 1-4 more games, we'd be sitting pretty.

[GONYK]

What do you consider someone like Andre Iguodala?

At this point in his career? Role player. But I didn't consider him a role player in him prime. When he was an all-star and an olympic champion. He was a key contributor.

Was he ever going to be a #1 option on a top tier team, No, but he was a good secondary piece (a "robin" per say) to an elite scorer.

I even think WInslow has a little more shooting potential than Iggy. Even in his prime Iggy was shooting around 31% from 3.

Winslow took a lot more 3's and hit them at a much much better rate than Iggy did at Arizona. I think he was below 30% (26% about in his college career in 2 years). Winslow took just as many 3's that iggy did in 1 year and shot 15% higher over 40%.

If he is a better shooting version of iguadala we have a very very very good player on our hands.

I think the only thing he has on Iggy is shooting. I put Winslow on par or below on pretty much everything else.

Can he develop? Sure, he's only 19. But if I'm choosing between a bunch of teenagers, I'm swinging for the fences. Winslow is a little safe for me.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

The goal in the draft should be to find somebody who ends up being BETTER than Melo, not to find somebody who can help Melo's HOF case by helping him get past the first round a few times.

[mpharris36]

i dont even know anymore. one day i think there are like 5 or 6 stars in this draft, the next i think everyone minus 1 or 2 will be bums.

just pick the right guy Phil...for once we need something to go our way.

the problem is no one is going to be patient with him picking the right guy. Even if Winslow ends up being the better player and Phil picks him we will have to go through agony this offseason on how he messed up the draft.

[mpharris36]

I think the only thing he has on Iggy is shooting. I put Winslow on par or below on pretty much everything else.

Can he develop? Sure, he's only 19. But if I'm choosing between a bunch of teenagers, I'm swinging for the fences. Winslow is a little safe for me.

but a better shooting Iggy is a multiple time all-star. A near 20 point scorer with pretty good efficiency for a guard/SF with plus defense.

In a 4 year stretch in his prime. Iggy was a 18-20 pt on only 14 shots a night scorer shooting 46% and 31% from 3. Playing elite defense and contributing on the glass and could pass.

Winslow I see more of a 35-40% 3 point shooter ideally with a similar impact to prime iggy or a jimmy butler this year.

That is a type of player that really fits nicely next to a higher volume shooter like Melo. Like I said I am not campaigning for Winslow, I just would understand the pick. Like I said before at this point I am still taking one of the top 4 consensus guys but I can understand the thought process in Winslow.

[HarthorneWingo]

We have to find out what players other teams covet at no. 4 and then hopefully trade down, still get our guy plus obtain a vet and/or a pick back.

That's the play.

[Johnny Hoops]

melo controls draftexpress ?

No, he controls...

Melo is the new Starbury? Remember when folks used to blame Marbury for everything and not just bad things that happen specifically for the Knicks?

Marbury did much less damage but ok.

[CrazyKnicks]

Let them sleep on Mudiay, more fuel to his fire.