Draftexpress drops Mudiay down to pick #6 today

[PeteW]

I know this is going to sound incredibly silly. But the knicks need a high flier at the 2 that gets a lot of highlight reel dunks and finishes. Exciting players like that get a lot of exposure and TV time. ESPN shoves them down your throat all day long. That makes more fans want to watch that players team. More televised games brings more positive exposure. The way the game is played today,... big athletes are at an advantage because all they have to do is get near the rim and jump. Guys like that also control the crowd and that influences teammates, and like it or not,.. the refs. Its the stuff manufactured stars are made of. I have always felt that one of the reasons carmelo does not get as much love (and calls) as others is because he is a more grounded player.

So you want Hezonja?

Yeah he literally just described Hezonja to a tee.

[vallen]

The skills that WCS and Winslow offer can be found in trades in FA.

But good luck finding an a guard who can get to the rim at will like Mudiay. It's too valuable of a skillset, and by the time these guys enter UFA, they've already lost a step. If Phil acknowledges that this is an essential skillset for a team to have in today's NBA, he's gotta go with Mudiay.

its not that valuable when its his only skillset...

[isiah_thomas]

DX explanation talks about Winslow being a good fit here.

Mudiay dropping has more to do with what the Knicks board could look like

The Knicks sported the third worst defense in the NBA last year, and don't really have a single player on their roster that projects as being above average on that end of the floor. Justise Winlsow's toughness, unselfishness and track record as a winner should be attractive to a team that struggled with chemistry all season and rarely looked to be on the same page. He's intelligent enough to pick up the Triangle quickly, should have no problem playing the 2 or the 3 alongside Melo (at the 3 or the 4), and has all the intangibles you look for on a team that needs pretty much everything at this stage. Don't rule out a trade either, especially if a more immediate contributor becomes available.

The Kings would likely be thrilled to see a talent like Mudiay, considered a top-3 pick for most of the season, at this stage in the draft. While Darren Collison has done an admiral job at the point, it's difficult to see him as a starter on a playoff team in the loaded Western conference. Collison and Mudiay can play together regardless, and George Karl can finally start to in-still his fast paced, up-tempo offense with a big, strong athlete like Mudiay running the show. Defensively, the Kings could sorely use a long-armed athlete like Mudiay at the point of attack.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

The skills that WCS and Winslow offer can be found in trades in FA.

But good luck finding an a guard who can get to the rim at will like Mudiay. It's too valuable of a skillset, and by the time these guys enter UFA, they've already lost a step. If Phil acknowledges that this is an essential skillset for a team to have in today's NBA, he's gotta go with Mudiay.

its not that valuable when its his only skillset...

Well the point of picking him is to hope his other skills pan out. But even as just a penetrator, that would be very valuable to us. At worst, he's another Tony Wroten, who basically would have been our best player this past year.

[moocow007]

DX explanation talks about Winslow being a good fit here.

Mudiay dropping has more to do with what the Knicks board could look like

The Knicks sported the third worst defense in the NBA last year, and don't really have a single player on their roster that projects as being above average on that end of the floor. Justise Winlsow's toughness, unselfishness and track record as a winner should be attractive to a team that struggled with chemistry all season and rarely looked to be on the same page. He's intelligent enough to pick up the Triangle quickly, should have no problem playing the 2 or the 3 alongside Melo (at the 3 or the 4), and has all the intangibles you look for on a team that needs pretty much everything at this stage. Don't rule out a trade either, especially if a more immediate contributor becomes available.

The Kings would likely be thrilled to see a talent like Mudiay, considered a top-3 pick for most of the season, at this stage in the draft. While Darren Collison has done an admiral job at the point, it's difficult to see him as a starter on a playoff team in the loaded Western conference. Collison and Mudiay can play together regardless, and George Karl can finally start to in-still his fast paced, up-tempo offense with a big, strong athlete like Mudiay running the show. Defensively, the Kings could sorely use a long-armed athlete like Mudiay at the point of attack.

So basically Mudiay is still the best player projected to be available at 4. If Jackson doesn't want him and the Kings do, then trade. Don't simply just take the guy you want (see differences between a bad GM, good GM and great GM). I would be extremely pissed if Jackson simply passes on Mudiay and takes someone that he likes that projects to be available later. Assets, Knicks have little, need to be maximized as much as possible.

[Juggynaut]

I think draftexpress expects a trade to happen with the Knicks, which is y they changed it.

[moocow007]

I think draftexpress expects a trade to happen with the Knicks, which is y they changed it.

That kinda doesn't make sense since chances are the Knicks would be trading with a team that actually would want the guy that most believe should be taken (i.e. whomever is left of the top 4). Why would another team trade up to 4 to take someone that can be had later? Same reason why Knick fans should be up in arms if Jackson does nothing with the pick and picks a guy that should be picked later.

[mpharris36]

Moo, just throwing this out there. What about Orlando though.

What if Orlando is targeting Winslow at 5? So if you move down to 6 and trade the rights to Mudiay for #6 and other assets. It would be a little bit of a risk because if Orlando takes Winslow maybe Phil doesn't want WCS or Porzingis at #6.

Just a thought. If Winslow was our guy (then I would agree, in an ideal scenario you can trade down to 6 or 7 and gain extra assets but if Winslow is our guy would you want to risk that with Orlando? I guess that is the game you have to play as a GM.

[moocow007]

Moo, just throwing this out there. What about Orlando though.

What if Orlando is targeting Winslow at 5? So if you move down to 6 and trade the rights to Mudiay for #6 and other assets. It would be a little bit of a risk because if Orlando takes Winslow maybe Phil doesn't want WCS or Porzingis at #6.

Just a thought. If Winslow was our guy (then I would agree, in an ideal scenario you can trade down to 6 or 7 and gain extra assets but if Winslow is our guy would you want to risk that with Orlando? I guess that is the game you have to play as a GM.

I would consider trading down, yep. It depends on what assets. If Orlando is willing to take Calderon, I would consider trading down sure.

[EchelonNYK]

There's no way in hell we're passing on Mudiay for Winslow. You don't pick a guy that you believe will sharpen up your defense when said team doesn't play much D to begin with. If you want to become a better defensive team then it has to start with Melo. A lone rookie won't turn around our defensive woes, especially at the position he plays.

[moocow007]

There's no way in hell we're passing on Mudiay for Winslow. You don't pick a guy that you believe will sharpen up your defense alone. If you want to become a better defensive team than it has to start with Melo. A lone rookie won't turn around our defensive woes, especially at the position he plays.

Pretty much. At 6'6" Winslow also doesn't have exactly great size for an NBA SF. As a SG he'll have problems as he can't create off the dribble to do it consistently in the NBA (see OJ Mayo). There's also some serious concerns that he takes a bit too long to get his shot off (unlike Mayo who at least can) which, while it can work in college, will be harder to get working in the NBA (see Trajan Langdon, one of the best shooters in college at the time who had a hitch in his shot which resulted in him not being able to consistently get his shot, as good as it was, off quickly enough to last in the NBA). A SG that can neither create shots consistently nor get his shot off is not good. Defense? Yes, excellent. If he had some of the other skills that someone like Lance Stephenson who also didn't come into the league with a bundle of NBA caliber offensive skills, has (ball handling, passing) then sure that can compensate. Can he adjust his offensive game and become top notch? Sure. But I'm not sure I'd want to take the chance at 4. I would if the Knicks pick later (7, 8, 9 range).

[mpharris36]

Moo, just throwing this out there. What about Orlando though.

What if Orlando is targeting Winslow at 5? So if you move down to 6 and trade the rights to Mudiay for #6 and other assets. It would be a little bit of a risk because if Orlando takes Winslow maybe Phil doesn't want WCS or Porzingis at #6.

Just a thought. If Winslow was our guy (then I would agree, in an ideal scenario you can trade down to 6 or 7 and gain extra assets but if Winslow is our guy would you want to risk that with Orlando? I guess that is the game you have to play as a GM.

I would consider trading down, yep. It depends on what assets. If Orlando is willing to take Calderon, I would consider trading down sure.

yeah but like everything there is two sides to a deal. Just like you mentioned above, unless a team is specifically targeting 1 guy, they really wouldn't have much incentive to trade up and give up other things to do it. Ideally you would have to hope someone really wants a guy at 4 that wont make it to where they are picking.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Just go for he sexy, obvious choice in mudiay. In so many drafts we try to get too clever, the crowd/analysts instantly calls us on it, and then we spend the off season in denial. Phil is a rookie GM. He is not outsmarting anybody. Just **** pick mudiay. NOW.

[Juggynaut]

I think draftexpress expects a trade to happen with the Knicks, which is y they changed it.

That kinda doesn't make sense since chances are the Knicks would be trading with a team that actually would want the guy that most believe should be taken (i.e. whomever is left of the top 4). Why would another team trade up to 4 to take someone that can be had later? Same reason why Knick fans should be up in arms if Jackson does nothing with the pick and picks a guy that should be picked later.

This is just their projection of who we want, they are getting a feeling that we value Winslow more than Mudiay. Doesn't necessarily mean we're taking Winslow at 4.

[TrueWarrior]

Just go for he sexy, obvious choice in mudiay. In so many drafts we try to get too clever, the crowd/analysts instantly calls us on it, and then we spend the off season in denial. Phil is a rookie GM. He is not outsmarting anybody. Just **** pick mudiay. NOW.

Either Phil is puffing out some masterful smokescreens or we really are about to f*ck things up again .

[Clyde Frazier]

Winslow > Mudiay

Why?

[newyorker4ever]

Moo, just throwing this out there. What about Orlando though.

What if Orlando is targeting Winslow at 5? So if you move down to 6 and trade the rights to Mudiay for #6 and other assets. It would be a little bit of a risk because if Orlando takes Winslow maybe Phil doesn't want WCS or Porzingis at #6.

Just a thought. If Winslow was our guy (then I would agree, in an ideal scenario you can trade down to 6 or 7 and gain extra assets but if Winslow is our guy would you want to risk that with Orlando? I guess that is the game you have to play as a GM.

I'm sure Phil and his team are smart enough to have their draft board all set up to know exactly how far they would go down in a trade to where there will definitely still be a player they want at that pick.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

I think draftexpress expects a trade to happen with the Knicks, which is y they changed it.

That kinda doesn't make sense since chances are the Knicks would be trading with a team that actually would want the guy that most believe should be taken (i.e. whomever is left of the top 4). Why would another team trade up to 4 to take someone that can be had later? Same reason why Knick fans should be up in arms if Jackson does nothing with the pick and picks a guy that should be picked later.

But deep down you know that will happen. We're the Knicks after all, nothing ever works out to our favor.

[Yankeeknickfan]

melo controls draftexpress ?

Ya. It's like how you are Isola

[melomax]

Just go for he sexy, obvious choice in mudiay. In so many drafts we try to get too clever, the crowd/analysts instantly calls us on it, and then we spend the off season in denial. Phil is a rookie GM. He is not outsmarting anybody. Just **** pick mudiay. NOW.

Either Phil is puffing out some masterful smokescreens or we really are about to f*ck things up again .

What is there to smokescreen?