The #2 Pick

[TRKO]

Would you rather the Timberwolves pick Towns or Okafor? Flip Saunders is said to be leaning towards selecting Okafor.

[LApwnd]

Would you rather the Timberwolves pick Towns or Okafor? Flip Saunders is said to be leaning towards selecting Okafor.

I prefer he take's Towns....its great and all he can shoot from the perimeter but I'd rather have a true post presence off the bat. IF Okafor is really that good on the blocks he should make everyone better offensively, his passing skills is already pretty solid being coached by coach K. I do think Randle/KAT offensively are somewhat similar and I think KAT takes much longer to get to his full potential if he ever does get there. I don't think KAT will ever be dominant in anyone aspect of his game, he might be great at several things but IMO OKafor will be dominant offensively, we can adjust the system and sign/draft future players to cover up his defensive weakness, not like Pau was some sort of defensive juggernaut like Dj or the likes, shoot Marc won DOPY w/o having so much as 1/4 of Dj athleticism.

[ak7]

I know why Towns is listed as PF, but is he a C in the nba?

He's a 6-11, 7 fter with an almost 8 ft wingspan and a frame that is easily bigger than some NBA centers now, with room to grow. He's very much an NBA center, I'd say. Without even mentioning his athleticism.

[LApwnd]

would anyone be open to trading down and getting rid of Young at the same time, something along these lines
Sac-Lawson, 27th
Den-2nd, Young
La-6th, 7th, Chandler

Den gets a possible franchise type SG with Russell or takes chance to pair Okafor/Nurkic (Nurkic covers up Okafor lack of D)
Sac-gets a starting PG and another pick to add to their depth
la-we fill more spots with 6th/7th, maybe something like WCS/Mario or WCS/Winslow? WCS covers up randle and we use Chandler as a stop gap SF till Mario or Winslow show they're capable of the starting spot

sure we gona give up a possible franchise C but the positions we fill could make up for that loss with being a more balanced team. Could still try to target Marc to tutor the bigs.

[Kilroy]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

As a TWolves fan, my answer will be coming out of left field..... Emmanuel Mudiay. Firstly, let's not be delusional to think that this should only be a 2-player discussion for the top pick. There are 4 (and arguably 5 if you are bold enough to include Kristaps Porzingis like some GM's are) prospects in this draft that can make a case for #1. For the Lakers I can understand limiting the choices as to who is left of Towns and Okafor. For us, we have to be more open-minded with our options.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAaK9jtb8U[/youtube]

Flip has said that he wants to build a running team around Wiggins and LaVine (notice that he made no mention of Rubio). Mudiay fits the bill perfectly. LaVine is statistically ranked as the worst defending PG in the league, so I would think of eventually moving him to SG if there is no improvement there. Rubio is overpaid regardless of the rising cap but I believe he is still viewed favorably in the league and I think we can get a first round pick for him especially from a team that wants to make a run at Kevin Love (i.e. Celtics). As for our bigs, I feel that Dieng and Pek (although injury prone) are serviceable enough. NBA has turned into a guard-league especially in the West and it would take massive grassroots re-orientation for this to shift in the near to mid-term.

If I were Flip I will detach myself from any sentimental attachment of winning the #1 pick and explore trading down. I would look to do a trade with these two teams in the Atlantic:

Minny gives: Ricky Rubio
Boston gives: Gerald Wallace, Kelly Olynyk, #16 Pick

Minny gives: #1 Pick (Towns), Chase Budginger
NY gives: #4 Pick (Mudiay), Tim Hardaway Jr, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, 2018 1st Round Pick

Well, now news comes out that you'd be willing to trade Rubio... Assuming that's been leaked to generate some interest/activity...

Maybe your idea has some legs... Though I agree with other posters who say if they wanted to that, they could simply trade down and make out like bandits.

[LApwnd]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

As a TWolves fan, my answer will be coming out of left field..... Emmanuel Mudiay. Firstly, let's not be delusional to think that this should only be a 2-player discussion for the top pick. There are 4 (and arguably 5 if you are bold enough to include Kristaps Porzingis like some GM's are) prospects in this draft that can make a case for #1. For the Lakers I can understand limiting the choices as to who is left of Towns and Okafor. For us, we have to be more open-minded with our options.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAaK9jtb8U[/youtube]

Flip has said that he wants to build a running team around Wiggins and LaVine (notice that he made no mention of Rubio). Mudiay fits the bill perfectly. LaVine is statistically ranked as the worst defending PG in the league, so I would think of eventually moving him to SG if there is no improvement there. Rubio is overpaid regardless of the rising cap but I believe he is still viewed favorably in the league and I think we can get a first round pick for him especially from a team that wants to make a run at Kevin Love (i.e. Celtics). As for our bigs, I feel that Dieng and Pek (although injury prone) are serviceable enough. NBA has turned into a guard-league especially in the West and it would take massive grassroots re-orientation for this to shift in the near to mid-term.

If I were Flip I will detach myself from any sentimental attachment of winning the #1 pick and explore trading down. I would look to do a trade with these two teams in the Atlantic:

Minny gives: Ricky Rubio
Boston gives: Gerald Wallace, Kelly Olynyk, #16 Pick

Minny gives: #1 Pick (Towns), Chase Budginger
NY gives: #4 Pick (Mudiay), Tim Hardaway Jr, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, 2018 1st Round Pick

Well, now news comes out that you'd be willing to trade Rubio... Assuming that's been leaked to generate some interest/activity...

Maybe your idea has some legs... Though I agree with other posters who say if they wanted to that, they could simply trade down and make out like bandits.

IF I were Minn and I did a trade back to 4th with NYK I'd at least force them to eat Pekovic contract. At very least that 13mill of deadweight eating at their cap for the next 3 years. Would limit their FA acquisition, would help that 2018 pick being a little worse.

[Slava]

Trading for cap space means nothing to Minnesota, they are not getting a free agent to sign with them so pointless to drop down unless they get a good player/multiple picks in return. Honestly there's not a single asset with the Knicks for them to trade up.

[Jedi32]

Sheed was also probably in the wrong generation for a player like him. He never found his niche until he met Larry Brown in 2004.

Sheed's problem was he had no discipline. If he had discipline he could have went down in history as being better than Garnett and Duncan imo.

[john248]

I don't think Okafor is in the class of Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, or Olajuwon. The best comparison for him is Brad Daugherty, which is in the tier below those guys. Okafor has to improve his defense and if the scouts and coaches do not think he can, then you pass on him.

No disagreement here since I never explicitly said he'd be as good on offense as those 4. I do think Kareem and Shaq are in a clear class of their own, and having an offense as effective as Duncan and Hakeem can be projected. Projecting his defense is a whole different thing since I don't think there's a real reliable way of doing though signs point to him never getting there given his physical attributes at which point you're relying solely on him "getting it".

[john248]

Would you rather the Timberwolves pick Towns or Okafor? Flip Saunders is said to be leaning towards selecting Okafor.

I prefer he take's Towns....its great and all he can shoot from the perimeter but I'd rather have a true post presence off the bat. IF Okafor is really that good on the blocks he should make everyone better offensively, his passing skills is already pretty solid being coached by coach K. I do think Randle/KAT offensively are somewhat similar and I think KAT takes much longer to get to his full potential if he ever does get there. I don't think KAT will ever be dominant in anyone aspect of his game, he might be great at several things but IMO OKafor will be dominant offensively, we can adjust the system and sign/draft future players to cover up his defensive weakness, not like Pau was some sort of defensive juggernaut like Dj or the likes, shoot Marc won DOPY w/o having so much as 1/4 of Dj athleticism.

Okafor's defensive issues will negate some of his offensive value. Building a team around a defensive hole is costly since the perimeter would have to be tightened up considerably, and they'd have to be able to shoot to take advantage of Okafor's passing. These types of players aren't cheap, so the hope is management can find some underrated talent whiling having good coaching to guide them along the way. So this is just to say that Okafor's potential 1 way dominance wouldn't mean he'd be a dominant player. There's just as many questions about him as there is KAT.

DJ isn't a defensive juggernaut as you say; quite overrated. He puts up nice volume numbers. By most metrics, he rates as average to slightly above. This doesn't mean he's terrible but solid to good would be a better description. He doesn't ice PnRs either which makes me wonder why. Ah right, not so good at defending the perimeter. That's ok though because he's just ask to be a rim protector. Just felt the need to point out a part of his game that isn't there. But he is athletic enough to contest a shot on the ball handler who's diving for the basket in that situation. He's a nice weakside shot blocker. As a paint protector, he falls short of Bogut and Gasol as they just simply do a better job of it, quite noticeably to and statistically. A player like Marc is rare as an immobile big who plays DPOY level defense just isn't common.

[seeingstars]

If I'm you guys, I'm drafting Russell and playing him at the 2. Y'all would have your backcourt set for the future with he and Clarkson.

With one year of mentoring from Kobe, I could see Russel being just as good as Harden if not better.

That's my 2¢ for what its worth.

[LApwnd]

Would you rather the Timberwolves pick Towns or Okafor? Flip Saunders is said to be leaning towards selecting Okafor.

I prefer he take's Towns....its great and all he can shoot from the perimeter but I'd rather have a true post presence off the bat. IF Okafor is really that good on the blocks he should make everyone better offensively, his passing skills is already pretty solid being coached by coach K. I do think Randle/KAT offensively are somewhat similar and I think KAT takes much longer to get to his full potential if he ever does get there. I don't think KAT will ever be dominant in anyone aspect of his game, he might be great at several things but IMO OKafor will be dominant offensively, we can adjust the system and sign/draft future players to cover up his defensive weakness, not like Pau was some sort of defensive juggernaut like Dj or the likes, shoot Marc won DOPY w/o having so much as 1/4 of Dj athleticism.

Okafor's defensive issues will negate some of his offensive value. Building a team around a defensive hole is costly since the perimeter would have to be tightened up considerably, and they'd have to be able to shoot to take advantage of Okafor's passing. These types of players aren't cheap, so the hope is management can find some underrated talent whiling having good coaching to guide them along the way. So this is just to say that Okafor's potential 1 way dominance wouldn't mean he'd be a dominant player. There's just as many questions about him as there is KAT.

DJ isn't a defensive juggernaut as you say; quite overrated. He puts up nice volume numbers. By most metrics, he rates as average to slightly above. This doesn't mean he's terrible but solid to good would be a better description. He doesn't ice PnRs either which makes me wonder why. Ah right, not so good at defending the perimeter. That's ok though because he's just ask to be a rim protector. Just felt the need to point out a part of his game that isn't there. But he is athletic enough to contest a shot on the ball handler who's diving for the basket in that situation. He's a nice weakside shot blocker. As a paint protector, he falls short of Bogut and Gasol as they just simply do a better job of it, quite noticeably to and statistically. A player like Marc is rare as an immobile big who plays DPOY level defense just isn't common.

we don't know how bad a defender Okafor will be nor will we know how limited KAT will be offensively off the bat. Defensive schemes help limit weak defenders if Okafor really is that bad, post moves can be taught but being naturally gifted at that aspect of the game cannot, that is why the C position is so weak these days there's no truly dominant post presence anymore in this game (besides Duncan). To me its less difficult to invent a defensive scheme to hind weak defensive players than it is to groom a big into a prominent post presence and I feel if teams don't force KAT to play on the blocks he'll eventually turn into a jump shooting big.

[DEEP3CL]

Phil should be able to work things out with Rubio, triangle offense or not.

I can tell you right now Rubio isn't a Triangle player, I know you Wolves fans dreaded watching the Triangle but in LA we saw it in it's truest form. In fact the system isn't dependent on a point guard at all, this is why Phil is looking at Russell...he's the big guard that Phil likes in that system. Rubio won't work.

[kblo247]

Phil should be able to work things out with Rubio, triangle offense or not.

I can tell you right now Rubio isn't a Triangle player, I know you Wolves fans dreaded watching the Triangle but in LA we saw it in it's truest form. In fact the system isn't dependent on a point guard at all, this is why Phil is looking at Russell...he's the big guard that Phil likes in that system. Rubio won't work.

I disagree actually. I think Rubio could be Harper, play d, make the right pass, hit the mid range shot ... Basically do beat Livingston does under Kerr. The thing would be getting the right bigs

[DEEP3CL]

More news on Mudiay...

Larry Brown says Emmanuel Mudiay is expected to work out for the Lakers, Sixers and Knicks, the teamsmudiay1 picking 2, 3 and 4 in the NBA Draft. A second source told SNY.tv that the order of the workouts will go Lakers first, Knicks second and then the Sixers last

http://hoopshype.com/archive/rumors/201 ... 150601.htm

[john248]

we don't know how bad a defender Okafor will be nor will we know how limited KAT will be offensively off the bat. Defensive schemes help limit weak defenders if Okafor really is that bad, post moves can be taught but being naturally gifted at that aspect of the game cannot, that is why the C position is so weak these days there's no truly dominant post presence anymore in this game (besides Duncan). To me its less difficult to invent a defensive scheme to hind weak defensive players than it is to groom a big into a prominent post presence and I feel if teams don't force KAT to play on the blocks he'll eventually turn into a jump shooting big.

And building a team to run those defensive schemes is, currently, tougher to build around than someone like KAT. Making a comparison between building a defensive scheme around a really weak defensive big versus grooming a big to be good in the low post is irrelevant here as there are recent teams that have succeeded, including winning championships, without a low post big. KAT doesn't need to be a good low post player since having a low post player isn't the path to the championship as it may have been a long, long time ago. All he has to do on the offensive end is put up a productive, efficient 15 ppg by being a finisher/roll man, shooting open jumpers whether by creating space and receiving a pass or off a screen, and put backs. If he ever develops a respectable post game, he can that too at times. As a passer, he'd just minimally have to be like Tyson Chandler, who just passes it off if an opportunity isn't there to keep the ball moving.

There are plenty of other ways to score in the paint whether by dribble penetration or PnR action. Even with KAT, the Lakers wouldn't be just a jump shooting team. They would need a good wing player in the future who can get to the paint effectively and can run PnRs. But this is also true even if Okafor were on the team. The main compelling thing about Okafor is indeed is low post play and his passing. It is because of this that he can be an additional hub on the offensive end. It then becomes if there is an offensive coach out there who can take advantage of his position on the floor to create opportunities for others. We haven't seen a successful strategy for this yet in today's league. Maybe we'll see some of it depending on what Cousin's future holds or what Gentry does with Davis (different style, I know).

[DEEP3CL]

I disagree actually. I think Rubio could be Harper, play d, make the right pass, hit the mid range shot ... Basically do beat Livingston does under Kerr. The thing would be getting the right bigs

Then we're seeing two different Rubio's, yeah he could make the right pass...but Rubio is a high tempo player and when teams have slowed him down he struggles. His speed and passing helps the Tri, but his inability to even strike from mid range on a more consistent basis hurts how functional he could be in the Tri. I mean kblo...he's not even B.J. Armstrong in the Tri !

[Wavy Q]

I don't watch much Minnesota games but i thought a few of Rubio's biggest flaws were 1. He cant finish worth a damn around the rim and 2. He's pretty bad at shooting in general other than free throws. So while he may be able to make the passes and what not, a lot of the Triangle revolves around the PG simply making the easy entry pass and hitting 3s / mid range jumpers. Rubio is good at 1 of those things.

[ratra_1211]

What do you think about okafor and old pau (2008ish - now) comparison? Great post game, BAD P&R defense, good passing, but i think pau is taller and longer. Okafor is way younger and can still improve alot. I dont know about young gasol though so cant say much

[kblo247]

I agree he's not traditional but I think he's young enough to be molded. He misses a lot of time trying to play his way. I'm also not really sold on the fact that he can't be developed away from Minnesota. Brewer had no role or development there, same with Gerald Green, and even Wes. I just don think Minny is fit to groom smalls personally. I think he has some potential that hasn't been tapped, but he needs coaching and someone to sit him down and mold his game up a bit. He plays great D, has vision, can board, but he needs help with his pacing, body, and shooting.