Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[letsgosuns]

Cousins puts up monster stats. Sometimes even crazy stats. However, outside of that, I do not view him as a winner, a good teammate, or someone that exudes championship qualities. Worst of all, the Kings have not improved one bit since they got him. Look at their records since he has been on the team starting with the 2010-11 season: 24-58, 22-44, 28-54, 28-54, 29-53. A five game improvement in five years. The Kings have never even won at least 30 games with him. I understand he has not had great talent around him but he still has had good players like Isaiah Thomas, Rudy Gay, and some young guys.

If you put Lebron James, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, or Steph Curry on the Kings instead of Cousins, I am gonna take a wild guess and say they should be able to win at least 30 games once in five years. I could care less about the Western Conference being tougher. Those guys I mentioned are all true superstars and can elevate the players around them. When has Cousins ever made players around him better? That is what the best players in the league do. Nash was the best at it. So you guys can dream about Cousins all you want but if the Suns hypothetically ever got him, they would have to give up so much for him that they would be no better than the Kings are right now anyway. Who wants that? I do not.

Isnt that pretty much everything that everyone said about Zack Randolph before he went to Memphis. Cousins maturity is lacking, but once it comes, he will dominate, and win, consistently, if he has any kind of team around him.

Yes, you could say that is true about Zach Randolph. However he still had problems even during the 2014 playoffs. He was suspended for game 7 of the of the Grizzlies' playoff series against the Thunder for punching Steven Adams' jaw in game 6. He missed game 7 and the Grizzlies lost that game and the series. He was his team's leading scorer in the series up to that point as well. So last year he cost his team dearly and ruined a chance for them to go deeper in the playoffs because of his own anger issues. That is my point with players like Randolph and Cousins who have such bad attitudes. No matter how much they help, they unfortunately can still find a way to be a detriment to their team.

[bwgood77]

If we need a new coach, who does everyone expect us to push for? Someone young?

Am I missing something with the Hornacek thing? Are people now under the assumption he is leaving? This is the last thing I read. http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... /28417251/

[saintEscaton]

If we need a new coach, who does everyone expect us to push for? Someone young?

Am I missing something with the Hornacek thing? Are people now under the assumption he is leaving? This is the last thing I read. http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... /28417251/

Just wishful thinking.

[bwgood77]

If we need a new coach, who does everyone expect us to push for? Someone young?

Am I missing something with the Hornacek thing? Are people now under the assumption he is leaving? This is the last thing I read. http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... /28417251/

Just wishful thinking.

Sure, every time a coach overachieves early and heightens expectations of fans to unrealistic levels, it makes it difficult, and some fans blame the coach if they don't continue to overachieve. When this results in a firing of the coach, a team typically reverts back to expected wins based on talent...what was it 17 last year? So maybe it would have been 25 this year (8 win improvement per year is pretty good though, especially when you lose the most unstoppable pick n roll duo in the league).

If we changed coaches would it make us better? It obviously depends on the coach, and it would be easier to have success then this year, with bad chemistry, mad players due to roster make up, and a constantly changing roster along with injuries to two starters, one being your center and the other being your near all star acquired at the deadline to replace your 3rd team all NBA guard.

Things should naturally be better next year even with the exact same roster due to more time together, our younger guys having more experience, and hopefully not a ton of moving parts and injuries all year long. Hornacek is an extremely solid coach in a very tough situation between fan expectations, a churning roster, too many starting quality point guards not getting minutes, injuries, hotheads on the team, etc.

And of course the west is extremely tough and I doubt the Pelicans are going to get any worse, and OKC will be back, and teams like Utah and Minnesota will also be on the rise.

[lilfishi22]

The grass is ALWAYS greener for some people

[Ghost of Kleine]

He's not going anywhere guys, he just rejected an interview with Iowa state. At least that is what the wiretaps are saying...

[Qwigglez]

I don't mind Hornacek. He's not a bad coach. Rather keep him than try something new.

[jredsaz]

Im interested in the actual cap number the Suns will have once free agency begins and what they can actually do to make the playoffs.

Sport track has a cap number at 44.2 before the cap holds. If we include Brandon Kinghts hold ($3.56x250%) and release the rest (Thornton, Green, Wright, etc.) it leaves the Suns about $53.1 million on the books. Add in the 13th pick at $1.77 million and the Suns have a cap hit from day one of FA at 54.8+/-

According to Larry Coon and others the projected cap will be at $66.5 million. Recent history shows us that the actual number will be slightly higher, lets call it $67 million.

That leaves the Suns with $12 million in cap space give or take.

What are the possible scenarios that move this team TOWARDS a playoff berth? Are there FAs available at $12 million a year that can come in and improve the starting lineup at the 3 or 4 or 5? If so, doesn't that signing significantly set back a developing player like Warren, Len or Keiff?

Due to the Morris' leagal issue the only tradeable assets are Bledsoe, Tucker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, and Bullock.

Does it make sense to package #13 and Tucker to move down in the draft to Atlanta or Milwaukee (Teams that can essentially absorb Tuckers Salary pre draft) and accumulate "Mini-Max" cap space for someone like Middleton, Monroe, or Harris?

Can the Suns attract those kind of players in free agency?

Is a deal for Noah that includes either Tucker or Warren plus #13 that is processed after the NBAs new season make sense, again given Lens development?

Realistically I assume the Suns will add another pick at 13, sign an FA at value but will cause a further logjam at a position of needed development and continue on a path of accumulating assets in the pursuit of a Star all while accepting another year in the late lottery next season.

[bwgood77]

Im interested in the actual cap number the Suns will have once free agency begins and what they can actually do to make the playoffs.

Sport track has a cap number at 44.2 before the cap holds. If we include Brandon Kinghts hold ($3.56x250%) and release the rest (Thornton, Green, Wright, etc.) it leaves the Suns about $53.1 million on the books. Add in the 13th pick at $1.77 million and the Suns have a cap hit from day one of FA at 54.8+/-

According to Larry Coon and others the projected cap will be at $66.5 million. Recent history shows us that the actual number will be slightly higher, lets call it $67 million.

That leaves the Suns with $12 million in cap space give or take.

What are the possible scenarios that move this team TOWARDS a playoff berth? Are there FAs available at $12 million a year that can come in and improve the starting lineup at the 3 or 4 or 5? If so, doesn't that signing significantly set back a developing player like Warren, Len or Keiff?

Due to the Morris' leagal issue the only tradeable assets are Bledsoe, Tucker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, and Bullock.

Does it make sense to package #13 and Tucker to move down in the draft to Atlanta or Milwaukee (Teams that can essentially absorb Tuckers Salary pre draft) and accumulate "Mini-Max" cap space for someone like Middleton, Monroe, or Harris?

Can the Suns attract those kind of players in free agency?

Is a deal for Noah that includes either Tucker or Warren plus #13 that is processed after the NBAs new season make sense, again given Lens development?

Realistically I assume the Suns will add another pick at 13, sign an FA at value but will cause a further logjam at a position of needed development and continue on a path of accumulating assets in the pursuit of a Star all while accepting another year in the late lottery next season.

Honestly do the players you mention REALLY make us THAT much better in the west? I don't think they do. I honestly think our best chance of improving fairly quickly is nailing a draft pick. I'm talking making a pick like Kawhi Leonard in our spot who starts to seriously contribute fast.

I don't think we are THAT set for sure at any position to where we draft for need. I obviously have super high hopes for Len and Warren but if we could nail a pick that became one of the best players in the league at that position, the depth or option of playing together would be nice.

If we can get that one player that transcends us, like KJ or Nash did, that is our best chance of changing things quickly. Both of those players, especially KJ, transformed into top tier players due to the coach and system or opportunity (in KJs case) and improved us by 25+ wins. I don't think that kind of improvement is possible at all, especially given the tough conference, but we struck gold with those two trades and of course the Colangelos' were behind those.

[King4Day]

If we need a new coach, who does everyone expect us to push for? Someone young?

Am I missing something with the Hornacek thing? Are people now under the assumption he is leaving? This is the last thing I read. http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... /28417251/

I didn't see that when i posted. It was a question of, 'in the event of'. Not, 'when he's gone'.
No matter. He stays and I'm happy he is. We can't afford to keep making big changes the moment something goes wrong.

EDIT: I was also referring to the rumor he would go to Iowa. Not be fired (this would have happened weeks ago if it were to occur). If he left for Iowa, it would be a legit question but that was nipped and my post was crossed with the time this was made official.

[bwgood77]

If we need a new coach, who does everyone expect us to push for? Someone young?

Am I missing something with the Hornacek thing? Are people now under the assumption he is leaving? This is the last thing I read. http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/h ... /28417251/

I didn't see that when i posted. It was a question of, 'in the event of'. Not, 'when he's gone'.
No matter. He stays and I'm happy he is. We can't afford to keep making big changes the moment something goes wrong.

EDIT: I was also referring to the rumor he would go to Iowa. Not be fired (this would have happened weeks ago if it were to occur). If he left for Iowa, it would be a legit question but that was nipped and my post was crossed with the time this was made official.

Yeah, I realized after I posted that the article was dated after your post, so obviously the question was legit. I'm not sure who I would have wanted to go after. I'd probably mostly look at assistant coaches for teams with good offensive flow yet were also good defensively. Or possibly college guys. I'd definitely take a hard look at Ettore Messina who won four euroleague championships and was an assistant with the Spurs this year. Off the top of my head, I'd start with him.

[Years90Suns]

We need bigger needs in filling our PF spot and probably finding a good SF, him being a starter or a veteran who could play behind Warren so TJ can learn from him.
If Cousins could come easily, then I would get him. But, what the plan would be? Playing him at the 4?
We already have a 7-1 C who is still developing...

Then, we have to go through the draft. If we get Kaminsky, then I believe we have our PF problems quite resolved. We should get rid of the M&Ms. Len, Kaminsky, Wright and another C is really enough.

Then continue with this two PG system is stupid. We (and they) already saw it does not work. So get ahead with this is a mistake. Knight needs to be our only PG. Either EB. But both at the same time will bring us to disaster again. How are we supposed to combine two guards that want to run with Warren (big for a SF who likes to post up) and Len?

[StarMaker]

In terms of his skills and athleticism, Cousins can play well at 4. Given the Memphis duo, Cousins would make excellent partnership with Len. I think Gasol and Randoph are good example for the twin tower.

[alphagorilla]

how about something like Brandon Knight + Marcus for Favors. That way Goodwin and TJ can get more min. Have Favors, Kieff, Len, Kaminsky? as our bigs

[Cutter]

I personally don't have Archie in any future plans for the Suns. Trading established talent so Archie can get some play time doesn't make sense to me. Archie wasn't very good in college, and certainly hasn't shown much in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not sure why his name is even brought up on this board.

Now, I will be perfectly ok if he proves me wrong and becomes a good player. I really hope he does become a contributor, but the logical and analytical side of me says this is not likely.

[Fo-Real]

how about something like Brandon Knight + Marcus for Favors. That way Goodwin and TJ can get more min. Have Favors, Kieff, Len, Kaminsky? as our bigs

If they did have any thoughts of trading him, you are not in the same ballpark to get him, actually not in the same country. You post that in thier thread and someone might knock on your door later today with look on thier face.... dont open that door..... that fool just drove all the way from Sacto with a space diaper on and weapons in his car.

Welcome to the board by the way!

[jcsunsfan]

The Suns need one player in free agency. He has to be starter/star quality. He has to be a leader--a player that gives this team an identity. He can be somewhat older. A player like a 31 year old Kevin Garnett (just giving a type) or like Grant Hill was when he first came here. Someone who loves winning, hates losing and holds others accountable.

An NBA version of Captain America! Ha!

[BobbieL]

The Suns need one player in free agency. He has to be starter/star quality. He has to be a leader--a player that gives this team an identity. He can be somewhat older. A player like a 31 year old Kevin Garnett (just giving a type) or like Grant Hill was when he first came here. Someone who loves winning, hates losing and holds others accountable.

An NBA version of Captain America! Ha!

I totally agree. They need a team guy who is about winning and not themselves. Somebody quoted Popovich as saying "you need a team of guys who are over themselves."

Well - Isiah Thomas was not over himself - gone
Seems like Goran was not over himself - gone
The Morri are clearly all about themselves - need to go

I wish I knew who that player was in free agency - it might be Kaminsky in the draft - but I know this much, it starts with dumping those the guys who are about each other before the team.

Not sure who that leader type is - and nobody is just giving those guys away. Hard to find. Ryan has a lot of work to do.

[BobbieL]

In terms of his skills and athleticism, Cousins can play well at 4. Given the Memphis duo, Cousins would make excellent partnership with Len. I think Gasol and Randoph are good example for the twin tower.

I would take Boogie but what would you he to give up. I think Len.

Need somebody to take the Morris twins. Maye PJ Tucker too

[thamadkant]

I personally don't have Archie in any future plans for the Suns. Trading established talent so Archie can get some play time doesn't make sense to me. Archie wasn't very good in college, and certainly hasn't shown much in the NBA. Honestly, I'm not sure why his name is even brought up on this board.

Now, I will be perfectly ok if he proves me wrong and becomes a good player. I really hope he does become a contributor, but the logical and analytical side of me says this is not likely.

In 23 games this season, he played more than 15 minutes.
He averaged 8 points, 3 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.7 steals.

For a someone who didn't get much college time and being raw. That's something.


TJ Warren has shown as much as Goodwin, yet he is older.

I think if you look at the positives instead I the negatives you'll find that Goodwin has indeed shown a lot for a raw 20 year old who seems to have a high ceiling.

I've seen plenty of good things personally. He is easily a 15 point 5 rebound rim attacking Guard with 30 minutes a game. Without a reliable 3pt and mid range yet, that's pretty impressive.

And he only counts 1 million against the cap. McD likes him too... So the person who matters the most in decision making sees something.