Poll: Who should the Wolves take with the #1 overall pick?

[C.lupus]

First, per36 numbers lose a lot of meaning when you are comparing 13.6 mpg as a backup to 30 mpg as a starter. Second, I disagree that his shooting is the same. If you disregard the 7 3 point shots he's taken in his career (it isn't close to a legitimate part of his game), his 2pt% went from .496 to .510, his FT% went from .634 to .783, and his TS% went from .534 to .573. His points per36 dropped because A. he took fewer shots (on improved his efficiency) and B. he had a drastically different role, playing almost three times the number of minutes - a lot of times as the only big man on the floor - with a lower usage.

I'll give you that his rebound rate was down, steal rate was down slightly, and his blocks were about the same. But his turnover rate was also down slightly and his foul rate was down significantly (6.5 per 100 vs. 4.4).

[Calinks]

Yep he had to play fewer minutes last season. Also do not forget, he had one of the best PF's in the game playing alongside him and the team was a lot better overall, he had way more freedom to operate because of that. This year he was playing with players who were terrible and not up to NBA standards (currently) and he had way more responsibility. You put him next to another impact 4 and his game becomes much more effective.

[Feilong]

Bla bla bla ...

Quality retort.

Ignore me just like i am ignoring you.

[Calinks]

"The greatest thing for Minnesota if they choose to pick him is, he wants to be there," he said. "You can take either guy and maybe Jahlil feels the same way, I don't know. I just know Karl Towns, if they choose to take him, wants to be there."

Calipari was referring to national speculation that Okafor -- part of it judging from a glum expression when the Wolves won the draft lottery last month -- wants to play in Los Angeles for the Lakers, who own the draft's second pick.

"Karl's the one guy who's like, `I'm fine with Minnesota, I'd like to be in Minnesota,' " Calipari said. "There's no, like, "Well, I could go to the Lakers.' That isn't who he is.That isn't his family, either. As soon as the lottery balls hit, he called me and said, `Coach, I'm good in Minnesota, I'm fine there.' "

I have said it before but I swear we are the most self-conscious state in the NBA. If the best thing about Towns is "he wants to be here" then we got issues. I blame the media for some of this because they spit this rhetoric constantly but man, we get so nervous about this. Attention to all athletes, if you ever want to ingratiate yourselves with Minnesota sports fans and become a legend, all you have to do is talk the place up, that instantly gives you icon status lol. If I was an agent, I'd be drilling that notion hard into my players. If they take Towns he just needs to talk about how amazing the state of Minnesota is, it's the best place he has ever seen and he will have the number 1 selling jersey inside of 3 months.

[C.lupus]

He went from playing 13 mpg to 30 mpg. When you are playing only 13 mpg you can play with more energy which can skew the per 36 number. When you are playing 30 mpg you have to play with endurance. I also think being the only big can really hurt your rebound totals because you have nobody helping you block out. You can't go by the per 36 or in college the per 40. This is what worries me a bit about Towns. He could play at a high energy rate because he had reinforcements where as Okafor was on a team with very limited depth. The Towns per 40 numbers look terrific, but can he play at that pace for a full game night in and night out? Maybe he can. I'm not going to say he can't, but I'm leery of just projecting his per 40 numbers just as much as I dislike projecting per 36 when a guy was only getting 13 mpg.

Bla bla bla ...
If you for some reason don't like the PER36 comparison then go and check his stats from March and April (1st year) when he was playing similar (big) minutes and make a comparison with this year. Tell me what you found out.

I found a small sample size of player that was playing with Kevin Love, Kevin Martin, and Ricky Rubio and that was mainly having success because the other teams weren't game planning for him.

[packforfreedom]

he was good on the offense end no doubt, he added several moves and shots to his arsenal and his passing vision is still very good for a bigman. but the fact, that he tried to block everything hurt the team so much on defense and brought him out of position to box out. if he can fix that, he'll be allright.

[Feilong]

First, per36 numbers lose a lot of meaning when you are comparing 13.6 mpg as a backup to 30 mpg as a starter. Second, I disagree that his shooting is the same. If you disregard the 7 3 point shots he's taken in his career (it isn't close to a legitimate part of his game), his 2pt% went from .496 to .510, his FT% went from .634 to .783, and his TS% went from .534 to .573. His points per36 dropped because A. he took fewer shots (on improved his efficiency) and B. he had a drastically different role, playing almost three times the number of minutes - a lot of times as the only big man on the floor - with a lower usage.

I'll give you that his rebound rate was down, steal rate was down slightly, and his blocks were about the same. But his turnover rate was also down slightly and his foul rate was down significantly (6.5 per 100 vs. 4.4).

Ok you also don't like the PER 36.
Then lets find a month with similar minutes (April 31.1 vs 2nd year 30.0 minutes)
APRIL, 31.1 mins, 11.9 PTS, 10.7 REB, 1.6 AST, 2 BLK
2nd Y, 30.0 mins, 9.7 PTS, 8.3 REB, 2.0 AST, 2.1 BLK

In March he played 20.7 mins and had like ~13.5points and ~12.5reb (PER30 to make a comparison)

But the most obvious thing is how opponents ignored him and went to the basket. He was a non factor defensively. This wasn't the case in his 1st year.
Let's see if he can improve next year.

[Klomp]

Ok you also don't like the PER 36.
Then lets find a month with similar minutes (April 31.1 vs 2nd year 30.0 minutes)
APRIL, 31.1 mins, 11.9 PTS, 10.7 REB, 1.6 AST, 2 BLK
2nd Y, 30.0 mins, 9.7 PTS, 8.3 REB, 2.0 AST, 2.1 BLK

Yeah, because it makes perfect sense to compare a complete season to a nine-game stretch.

[C-Dub47]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DWolfsonKSTP 38s38 seconds ago
Filed to @KSTP: #Twolves boss Flip Saunders in Los Angeles/Santa Barbara and will get a look at Towns and Okafor over the next few days.

[TRKO]

He went from playing 13 mpg to 30 mpg. When you are playing only 13 mpg you can play with more energy which can skew the per 36 number. When you are playing 30 mpg you have to play with endurance. I also think being the only big can really hurt your rebound totals because you have nobody helping you block out. You can't go by the per 36 or in college the per 40. This is what worries me a bit about Towns. He could play at a high energy rate because he had reinforcements where as Okafor was on a team with very limited depth. The Towns per 40 numbers look terrific, but can he play at that pace for a full game night in and night out? Maybe he can. I'm not going to say he can't, but I'm leery of just projecting his per 40 numbers just as much as I dislike projecting per 36 when a guy was only getting 13 mpg.

Bla bla bla ...
If you for some reason don't like the PER36 comparison then go and check his stats from March and April (1st year) when he was playing similar (big) minutes and make a comparison with this year. Tell me what you found out.

I wasn't the one making any sort of claims about him progressing or regressing. I was just saying how the per 36 argument isn't a good one. If going by the March and April numbers proves your point of regression I feel that would have been the argument to make over the per 36 projection.

[TRKO]

"The greatest thing for Minnesota if they choose to pick him is, he wants to be there," he said. "You can take either guy and maybe Jahlil feels the same way, I don't know. I just know Karl Towns, if they choose to take him, wants to be there."

Calipari was referring to national speculation that Okafor -- part of it judging from a glum expression when the Wolves won the draft lottery last month -- wants to play in Los Angeles for the Lakers, who own the draft's second pick.

"Karl's the one guy who's like, `I'm fine with Minnesota, I'd like to be in Minnesota,' " Calipari said. "There's no, like, "Well, I could go to the Lakers.' That isn't who he is.That isn't his family, either. As soon as the lottery balls hit, he called me and said, `Coach, I'm good in Minnesota, I'm fine there.' "

I have said it before but I swear we are the most self-conscious state in the NBA. If the best thing about Towns is "he wants to be here" then we got issues. I blame the media for some of this because they spit this rhetoric constantly but man, we get so nervous about this. Attention to all athletes, if you ever want to ingratiate yourselves with Minnesota sports fans and become a legend, all you have to do is talk the place up, that instantly gives you icon status lol. If I was an agent, I'd be drilling that notion hard into my players. If they take Towns he just needs to talk about how amazing the state of Minnesota is, it's the best place he has ever seen and he will have the number 1 selling jersey inside of 3 months.

First off I think the whole "player x would rather be in LA" is a whole media speculation. From a basketball standpoint Minnesota is a superior landing spot to LA. You get paired up with Wiggins, LaVine, Muhammed, Dieng, and Rubio, all of whom are under the age of 25. So you get a chance to grow with a group of young talented players. From a nightlife perspective and media attention perspective LA is superior. But if I'm a competitor I want to be in Minnesota. I want to be on the team with the better talent and upside.

[jpatrick]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DWolfsonKSTP 38s38 seconds ago
Filed to @KSTP: #Twolves boss Flip Saunders in Los Angeles/Santa Barbara and will get a look at Towns and Okafor over the next few days.

Hmmmmm...Flip seemed to really want them to come here.

[Feilong]

I wasn't the one making any sort of claims about him progressing or regressing. I was just saying how the per 36 argument isn't a good one. If going by the March and April numbers proves your point of regression I feel that would have been the argument to make over the per 36 projection.

Fair enough. I understand that PER36 isn't the best tool to make a comparison that's why i also posted his stats in March and April when he was playing heavy minutes. I like Gorgui, he has the tools to become a good bench player but until now he can't put it together, specially on defense. Maybe this summer with hard work he can become the defender he was projected to become.

[Saltine]

Gorgui had no consistency with his teammates other than Wiggins, 'Top Five-Man Floor Units';
http://www.82games.com/1415/14MIN24.HTM

He could have used some stability at PF, his stats are pretty good for the crappy situations he had to deal with up front. Thad Young is a poor rebounder, essentially a SF. Payne was all over the place, and Bennett doesn't understand basketball.

His best overall numbers came from the 45 minutes this lineup got to play together;
Rubio-Martin-Wiggins-Dieng-Pekovic

We need healthier guys.

[urinesane]

Towns.

He's still the right choice. Looks like Okafor lost some votes in the poll.

[Calinks]

"The greatest thing for Minnesota if they choose to pick him is, he wants to be there," he said. "You can take either guy and maybe Jahlil feels the same way, I don't know. I just know Karl Towns, if they choose to take him, wants to be there."

Calipari was referring to national speculation that Okafor -- part of it judging from a glum expression when the Wolves won the draft lottery last month -- wants to play in Los Angeles for the Lakers, who own the draft's second pick.

"Karl's the one guy who's like, `I'm fine with Minnesota, I'd like to be in Minnesota,' " Calipari said. "There's no, like, "Well, I could go to the Lakers.' That isn't who he is.That isn't his family, either. As soon as the lottery balls hit, he called me and said, `Coach, I'm good in Minnesota, I'm fine there.' "

I have said it before but I swear we are the most self-conscious state in the NBA. If the best thing about Towns is "he wants to be here" then we got issues. I blame the media for some of this because they spit this rhetoric constantly but man, we get so nervous about this. Attention to all athletes, if you ever want to ingratiate yourselves with Minnesota sports fans and become a legend, all you have to do is talk the place up, that instantly gives you icon status lol. If I was an agent, I'd be drilling that notion hard into my players. If they take Towns he just needs to talk about how amazing the state of Minnesota is, it's the best place he has ever seen and he will have the number 1 selling jersey inside of 3 months.

First off I think the whole "player x would rather be in LA" is a whole media speculation. From a basketball standpoint Minnesota is a superior landing spot to LA. You get paired up with Wiggins, LaVine, Muhammed, Dieng, and Rubio, all of whom are under the age of 25. So you get a chance to grow with a group of young talented players. From a nightlife perspective and media attention perspective LA is superior. But if I'm a competitor I want to be in Minnesota. I want to be on the team with the better talent and upside.

Agree and as a player I would def be excited to play for a young, up and coming team. I think a big reason why there is the negative Minnesota vibe is people just dont know what its like

[Note30]

Man after watching the Stein workout and the Towns workout, I'd be so happy if we could get them both.

[sfernald]

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 12m12 minutes ago

In talking to execs, I've heard Jahlil Okafor compared to Tim Duncan and Karl Towns compared to David Robinson. How lucky were the Spurs?

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 5m5 minutes ago
Sat with several coaches. Here were comparisons (ceilings):
Okafor: Duncan
Towns: Robinson
Russell: Kyrie
Winslow: Butler
Hezonja: McGrady

Wow this is the best draft ever!!!

Mudiay: Oscar Robertson
Cauley Stein: Bill Russell
Porzingis: Super Athletic Dirk Nowitzki
Tyus Jones: Isiah Thomas
Andrew Harrison: Kobe

Worst case scenarios:

Karl Anthony Towns: Black defensive-minded Spencer Hawes
Jahlil Okafor: Bigger Big Al
D'Angelo Russell: Cliff Paul
Emmanuel Mudiay: Jonny Flynn 2.0
Kristaps Porzingis: Biedrins with a jumper

[Calinks]

Wow this is the best draft ever!!!

Mudiay: Oscar Robertson
Cauley Stein: Bill Russell
Porzingis: Super Athletic Dirk Nowitzki
Tyus Jones: Isiah Thomas
Andrew Harrison: Kobe

Worst case scenarios:

Karl Anthony Towns: Black defensive-minded Spencer Hawes
Jahlil Okafor: Bigger Big Al
D'Angelo Russell: Cliff Paul
Emmanuel Mudiay: Jonny Flynn 2.0
Kristaps Porzingis: Biedrins with a jumper

That supposed to be a bad thing? I swear Big Al gets no respect.

[jpatrick]

Lots of video of Mudiay's Laker workout. He's young and can improve, but that shot does not look smooth to me.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BueCQgmdu-Y[/youtube]