A Very Specific Plan to Trade & Replace Jeff Teague

[Jamaaliver]

I've been advocating for some time now, the need to move our PG on a great contract. He is, in my estimation, more valuable for what he can bring in trade than what he can do for us on the court.

Where to move him:
OPTION A

There are numbers reports about several players the Knicks are “interested” in for the No. 4 pick in the 2015 NBA draft. Or the Knicks might decide to trade their pick?

According to ESPN’s Chad Ford, the Minnesota Timberwolves are offering up a trade for Ricky Rubio and are very much interesting in grabbing another top pick in the draft to select D’Angelo Russell.

The Knicks have the space to absorb his four-year, $55 million contract and he might be the what the Knicks are looking for to fit in to the triangle offense. While he is known for his assists one aspect he needs to work on is his outside shooting.

Both Phil Jackson and general manager Steve Mills have hinted they would move down the board if the return package was good.

Here

Frank Isola of the New York Daily News reported last month that the team is "enamored" with Kentucky forward Trey Lyles. Lyles...is considered a late-lottery talent rather than someone who should be going No. 4. Still, given the Lamar Odom-type skills Lyles possesses—Odom was a favorite of Jackson when he coached in Los Angeles—Lyles makes more sense than Payne on paper.

Here

So many sources indicating that NY is open to moving that pick. It's not a coincidence, they're fishing the market for the right deal. Teague allows them to compete immediately with Melo in his prime. It also makes NY a more attractive destination for Free Agents. And if there is a single prospect in this draft outside of the top 3 that our staff sees as s future star...this is a perfect move.

OPTION B

The Sacramento Kings are considered a darkhorse candidate to land Rajon Rondo, according to a report.

The Kings are entering a pivotal season and have Darren Collison coming off a hip surgery.

Kings have a plethora of young talent: From DMC to Staukas, McLemore, Ray Callum. They need veteran leadership to help turn that ship around. Teague is battle tested and still young enough to grow with all that young talent, at #6 we're still in play for Stanley Johnson, Willie Cauley Stein or Justise Winslow.

HERE

Who to Replace Him With:
Jameer Nelson

Denver Nuggets guard Jameer Nelson is planning to opt out of his $2.85 million player option for the 2015-16 season to enter free agency, league sources told RealGM.

After receiving interest from over a dozen teams last offseason, Nelson decided upon a two-year deal with the Dallas Mavericks. —
The Mavericks started the season 19-8 with Nelson, a concise offensive system with him at point guard - prioritizing his leadership on the team and finding proper balance within the offense, where Ellis and Chandler Parsons sought touches on the wing.

After joining the Nuggets in January via trade from Boston, Nelson scored 9.6 points and 3.7 assists per game. Nelson averaged 7.3 points and 4.1 assists while shooting nearly 37 percent from three-point range in 23 games for the Mavericks. Nelson has averaged 12.2 points, 5.3 assists and 3.1 rebounds over his 11-year career.

[Jamaaliver]

Essentially, NYK is likely looking to move back in the draft to pick up either Trey Lyles or Cameron Payne.

I think the Payne pick is a smokescreen as the triangle offense PJ is still enamored with has never utilized a ball dominant Point Guard. I think Jackson wants Lyle...badly

The Knicks scouted Kentucky extensively during the season. Jackson even made a trip to Lexington to see John Calipari's team practice, and the word from people associated with the Wildcats is that the Knicks were impressed with Lyles.

Here

We move Teague and #15 for #4 and Tim Hardaway Jr. This clears up additional cap space, gives us a scoring wing off the bench and gives us a shot at a top player of our choosing. Whether it's D Russell, Porzingis, Cauley-Stein or Justise.

With more than $30 million in cap space now available, we can either bring back the rest of the core in Millsap and Demarre while adding vet PG Jameer Nelson. Or we could build a proper roster: Robin Lopez-Horford-Demarre-Wes Mathews-Jameer while adding Hardaway, Korver and top young player to a much improved bench.

Whether you think this team is on the verge and just needs tweaks, or if you want to utilize all this cap space to build the ideal roster: this is the time to do it.

JT0 has been a really good player for us, but we have a chance to build something great for the next decade. Not just the next couple of seasons until Millsap and DC slow down leaving us with no bench, no tangible means for upgrade and Teague wanting a massive pay increase.

[td00]

Very interesting as I thought that our success depended on how Teague performed.

I think he was very adequate against the Nets and Wizards. I think he fared well against the West as well during the year.
Now, I like him on our side when we play the Bulls and Cavs. He was our only positive in Game 3.

JT played well this playoffs; I'm not sure if we can replace that straight up with DS. I like our rotation at PG and feel we have advantages on both the 1st and 2nd units.
The question is will Bud break up the rotation? I will say they moved George Hill to have the ability to draft Leonard.

I think we have to see if we can afford DMC and Sap first; the problem is the FAs are after the draft, so you have to have a very clear idea where you are headed.

My prediction is we don't make a significant move; it would be great to have Lyles available at 15 for the draft.

[Jamaaliver]

Very interesting as I thought that our success depended on how Teague performed.

I think he was very adequate against the Nets and Wizards. I think he fared well against the West as well during the year.
Now, I like him on our side when we play the Bulls and Cavs. He was our only positive in Game 3.

My prediction is we don't make a significant move; it would be great to have Lyles available at 15 for the draft.

A fair sentiment. I simply don't see Teague improving much from the 17 & 7 he gives us now. I don't see the team improving much with this exact same core. Ferry/Bud haven't had much success acquiring TOP talent in the draft the way SAS did with Parker, Ginobili or Kawhi.

My fear...we're secretly still a treadmill team and don't know it. If AL doesn't get a single putback bucket in Game 5 against WAS...we likely don't make it past Round 2 this year.

And if we can't even compete against a wounded CLE team, I'm reluctant to believe we can beat a healthy Cavs squad NEXT year.

But I agree, it is unlikely we make a move. I predict we win 50+ games next year and lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs. By then, we will be committed to an aging core and stuck as a REG Season juggernaut that's not talented enough to beat the big boys.

[Hawk Eye]

Couple of things..

1. Teague + #15 is not enough to jump up into the KAT, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay tier. Even if we attached the heavily protected MIN pick from the A. Payne trade. We also wouldn't get any extra cap space because NYK wouldn't even consider it if they can't dump Calderon on us.

2. Jameer Nelson is a backup PG at this stage of his career. He's a good 3 point shooter and can generally run an offense well but he's a walking turnstyle on defense. He wasn't able to close out on shooters and his lack of length/size/and athleticism really got to him this year. Ask any Mavs fan how Jameer did for them in his short stint with them (I personally asked ChuckTexas a Mavericks fan and user on RealGM that I trust, and what he said is along the lines of what I stated about him in this post.)

I'm not apposed to trading Teague but we have to get similar production or extremely close to what Teague gave us at the PG position in order for us to win 50+ games next season. Jameer Nelson and Dennis Schröder can't provide that as starters imo.

[td00]

I would like to see us make a splash for the sake of making a splash. We know that Bud & Wilcox will likely try to just tweak what we have, since we had injuries to 2 starters and Thabo. Hard to say 60 wins can be improved upon with this roster.
We still need to be bigger inside, as shown by Mosgov, Thompson, Nene, Gortat & Lopez. Al and Sap are not enough.

Here's my question: based on the current list of FAs, and with the draft, what ONE player would help us the most? I don't have faith in a big trade going down. Say we move Teague for another #1; would we be crazy to go for a Rondo or elevate DS with more veteran strength elsewhere? How much is a Rondo going to cost the next team? We can afford Rondo if we save in the Teague trade, but that would be drastic steps. I think Rondo is a huge unknown at this stage.

After resigning DMC and Sap, how much are we likely to be left with to improve the roster? I think we have one more year with the current starters.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I would be willing to trade Teague, but we would have to go after Love at that point depending what is also coming back to us from the trade.

[Rip2137]

The bottom barrel of this league is littered with teams that felt they would rather be good for the next decade vs being good and capitalizing now.

NOW is our window. Sacraficing the present for the future makes sense when you are a 7 seed and first round exit. It seems that some have not shaken that mindset.

We were one of the final 4 teams in the NBA this season. We won 60 games. We wont the conference. We are in the 2nd year of our system. Trading the guy that literally makes it all go is insane.

You were conviced Teague had taken us as far as we could go last year. Then we went further. I do not understand why wanting to be a 45 win team and a first round exit because we might be better at some mythical point in the future .

I am different than you. With a healthy Milsap, Demare and Korver, Thabo, we win, at worse, two of those games against Cleveland(I personally think it goes 7 as JR and Shumpert would have reverted to what we are seeing in the finals). I think we have a roster that needs tweaks. I am finding it hard to follow the logic that "If you make slight improvements to a team that made the Eastern Conference finals, they aren't any closer to the finals". You want to take us further away from the finals because we will totally be in better shape to get there later.

Downgrading your team at the arguably most important position in the NBA today is ridiculous.

[Skyhawk1]

I want Teague gone but Rondo as a replacement is a disaster. If our coach's system is based on ball movement how in the world you get a guy like Rondo?!?!?!?!?! I just think NBA teams should be more realistic. We are not winning big until a guy named LeBron James is playing in our conference so I'd try to stay competitive while we get younger and more talented. That's where the draft comes into place. Look at Warriors with Curry, Thompson, and Barnes. They are set for the next 8-10 years in those 3 positions unless there's an injury or something. If I'm running the Hawks I'd trade Teague (his value is high now with coach's Bud system), let Millsap go, try to trade Horford for a young talented star ( Wiggins was traded for K. Love). I really think this team overachieved this season. I doubt with the same group we can win 50 games next season given the fact that all you need to do to beat us is pound inside and stay home with our shooters and the entire world now knows about that.

[Jamaaliver]

The bottom barrel of this league is littered with teams that felt they would rather be good for the next decade vs being good and capitalizing now.

NOW is our window. Sacraficing the present for the future makes sense when you are a 7 seed and first round exit. It seems that some have not shaken that mindset.

We were one of the final 4 teams in the NBA this season. We won 60 games. We wont the conference. We are in the 2nd year of our system. Trading the guy that literally makes it all go is insane.

You were conviced Teague had taken us as far as we could go last year. Then we went further. I do not understand why wanting to be a 45 win team and a first round exit because we might be better at some mythical point in the future .

I am different than you. With a healthy Milsap, Demare and Korver, Thabo, we win, at worse, two of those games against Cleveland(I personally think it goes 7 as JR and Shumpert would have reverted to what we are seeing in the finals). I think we have a roster that needs tweaks. I am finding it hard to follow the logic that "If you make slight improvements to a team that made the Eastern Conference finals, they aren't any closer to the finals". You want to take us further away from the finals because we will totally be in better shape to get there later.

Downgrading your team at the arguably most important position in the NBA today is ridiculous.

If we make slight improvements, while CLE, MIA and Indy each make drastic improvements and come back stronger, I do not believe we maintain our hold on the East. If we bring back the same core, I predict we lose badly next post season as well.

The difference between us and the elite teams in this league is one thing: TALENT. We don't have a top 10 player. Every other Final Four team from this year and last has a franchise cornerstone to lean on.

If Jeff Teague is all that stands between us getting a true superstar, are you truly so loyal to the player that you'd pass up a legit shot?

EVEN FERRY KNEW WE NEEDED MORE TALENT. That was the whole reason behind dumping Joe, dumping Lou, letting Josh walk. To put everything into acquiring a star player. Now that we have the assets, the cap space, the coach to construct an elite roster from top to bottom...we're refusing to even consider it over Jeff Teague? Seriously?

I am skeptical this collection of players can accomplish more than they already have. I suspect we will simply have the same conversation again next year while we make the exact same excuses.

(We could have won if Demarre was healthy. We could have won if Horford was healthy. We could have won if Zaza and Lou were available.)

One day we will actually acknowledge what AL already did...we lost because we simply weren't good enough. Period.

[td00]

I'm for adding to the talent we have; not sure we can get a big FA to come here still.

3 names that interest me:

- Brandon Knight
- Tobias Harris
- Jeff Green

If we have to trade someone to improve the talent, I think we have to keep JT. DS goes first IMO as he has proven to have value.

[Rip2137]

You are a top team in the league. Find me another that trades key piece for a rookie. There is a reason it doesn't happen.

You don't seem to understand that you are saying get this team better. You are saying throw on the towel after a 60 win season and ECF appearance. You are saying toss it in and look to get back to this level in a few years. That is INSANE.

Move Teague for a rookie and we are a worse team for the foreseeable future. If this was year five of this system and this was a 1 let round exit...then sure. But to undercut team improvement and get worse because you lost a series with 4 key players seriously hurt is a mindnumbingly dumb move. NO team would do what you are suggesting.

And again, I don't think you are suggesting it because its the right move. You get so locked into players (in this case Dennis) that you are willing to sacrifice all of the team success so that the guy that YOU think will be a star gets to start. The same way you managed to convince yourself Bebe was on par with a Hall of fame cente, Jared Cunningham deserved to be in the NBA, Shelvin Mack doesn't belong in the NBA, Adrian Payne would have added something in these playoffs... None of this is close to true.

You are watching the finals. James is getting monster numbers, Thompson is killing the boards...Golden State is fairing about as well as us and they are healthy. Is it time to trade key contributors?

[Jamaaliver]

You are a top team in the league. Find me another that trades key piece for a rookie. There is a reason it doesn't happen.

You don't seem to understand that you are saying get this team better. You are saying throw on the towel after a 60 win season and ECF appearance. You are saying toss it in and look to get back to this level in a few years. That is INSANE.

Move Teague for a rookie and we are a worse team for the foreseeable future. If this was year five of this system and this was a 1 let round exit...then sure. But to undercut team improvement and get worse because you lost a series with 4 key players seriously hurt is a mindnumbingly dumb move. NO team would do what you are suggesting.

And again, I don't think you are suggesting it because its the right move. You get so locked into players (in this case Dennis) that you are willing to sacrifice all of the team success so that the guy that YOU think will be a star gets to start. The same way you managed to convince yourself Bebe was on par with a Hall of fame cente, Jared Cunningham deserved to be in the NBA, Shelvin Mack doesn't belong in the NBA, Adrian Payne would have added something in these playoffs... None of this is close to true.

You are watching the finals. James is getting monster numbers, Thompson is killing the boards...Golden State is fairing about as well as us and they are healthy. Is it time to trade key contributors?

RIP, if you tell me you honestly, without any hesitation, you believe Jeff Teague is the key, to defeating LeBron James. If you are willing to go on record that this group of core players is the absolute best shot we have or can possibly have at getting past CLE for this next few years....I will never mention it again. If you are completely certain that Teague and Millsap are only players that could possibly unseat the single best player on the planet, just say the word. I will support you wholeheartedly until the day Jeff walks away from the franchise.

Just say the words. Tell me that Jeff is the best shot we have at beating LeBron....I will sit back and simply watch. No excuses. No caveats.

If you honestly believe that keeping this group who just got swept by the Depleted Cavs...is the Hawks only chance defeating the Cavs.

Say the words. Go on record. Stand by the statement.

If its unfathomable to even consider moving Teague, just tell me that Teague is our ONLY shot at beating LeBron. That simple.

The goal is to win a Championship for the Hawks.

If you honestly believe no other combination of players could possibly get us there other than Jeff Teague...just...say...the words...

[jayu70]

"If we make slight improvements, while CLE, MIA and Indy each make drastic improvements "

That's funny - what drastic improvements are Indy and Mia making? It always amuses me that all other team will make improvements except the Hawks.
Trading Teague is not the issue, it's what you get in return is the issue at hand. Trading Teague for a rookie won't get us closer to winning the championship in 2015-16.
Kings are looking to move Cousins - Teague, #15, future pick(s) and whatever else is something that moves us closer to championship contention sooner.

[Jamaaliver]

"If we make slight improvements, while CLE, MIA and Indy each make drastic improvements "

That's funny - what drastic improvements are Indy and Mia making? It always amuses me that all other team will make improvements except the Hawks.

I honestly don't know. But, I've seen Pat Riley retool the Heat four times in the last 18 years and regularly make the Conference Finals as a result. They also won three titles in the last 12 years. Riley is always looking to improve his team. In the same way Hawks improved when we got Horford back, I expect Miami to rebound if Bosh comes back and with Dragic getting a full training Camp and they have a top-10 pick to dangle in talks.

I've seen Indy retool and make a handful of runs to Conference Finals. Larry Bird isn't quite as savvy as Riley, but he is a competitor. Last year Indy nearly made the playoffs with no Lance and severely limited Paul George. Word is, Hibbert is benched in favor of a small-ball approach to take advantage of their wing talent.

CLE was dysfunctional all season and still won 50+ games. With this playoff run giving confidence to their players, a return to health from Kyrie and K Love, the emergence of Delladova and Tristan, a full training camp with JR, IMan and Mozgov...they're gonna be beastly next year. Also, Lebron James hasn't lost an Eastern Conference playoff series in 5 years. (15-0)

CHI will also be tough as they bring back a veteran core under a more offensive minded coach. Bulls have finished in top 5 of the East for 5 straight years.

And I also expect WAS to be stronger after going 5-0 in the playoffs with a Healthy squad.

The Hawks can improve this summer. We have cap space. Roster spots. Appealing draft picks. Tradable contracts. It's my hope we follow through and look to build an ideal team from top to bottom, regardless of who is on the roster.

Either way, it'll be really exciting to see what moves get made at the draft and in Free Agency.

[PandaKidd]

Lets just boil it down, this team, as currently constructed, isnt winning a title.

We won 60 games after going INSANE in January. We have another 30 game sample that shows us more of a .500 team. I believe we are more a 4-5 seed than a #1 ECF Team. Ive always believed that. I think this team severely overachieved in the Regular Season. YOu saw that in the playoffs when bench staples like Scott/Bazemore/Pero etc couldnt score to save their lives. DS looked as unprepared as ever. It got to the point where we were begging for Mike Muscala to play........ just let that sink in. I love Moose, but hes a 3rd tier player.

We also suffered the same conversation we have EVERY year when we lose, WE GO as TEAGUE GOES. Teague had some GREAT games, he also had some all time DUMBASS games/moments. He makes great plays, he also makes a lot of dumb IQ bball plays. No ones perfect, but Ive seen enough of Teague to know what he is, a good PG that will give you more good games than bad, but hes not getting you over the hump.

So the only LOGICAL place for us to improve is at SG when we move Korver to the bench (assuming everyone comes back.) I dont see us improving at PF/C/SF because I suspect we resign PM and let DMC walk. In many cases we could be worse at SF.

PG trading Teague likely doesnt make us better either, but, I believe we could find someone suitable to shoulder the load.

SG, if we got someone who could create their own shot, would make the team much better.

Personally, Teague/DMC/ Millsap are the expendables. Teague because I do no believe hes our answer, DMC because if he gets offered 10 million a year im not paying it, Millsap because I believe we need a Center which doesnt mean he stays IMO.

You have to pick what you want to improve:
C- let Millsap Walk
SG-Move Korver to bench
PG- Trade teague for one of the other positions we need.

Teague, IMO, is the BEST trade asset, and the LEAST key piece to our success. I believe in a heavy PG league, we can find other people to control the game and temp0. But you would have to make up for it in other areas (and improve those positions). Trading Teague for the #4 pick to me is kind of dumb because I dont believe in Rookies and neither does Bud

[td00]

"If we make slight improvements, while CLE, MIA and Indy each make drastic improvements "

That's funny - what drastic improvements are Indy and Mia making? It always amuses me that all other team will make improvements except the Hawks.
Trading Teague is not the issue, it's what you get in return is the issue at hand. Trading Teague for a rookie won't get us closer to winning the championship in 2015-16.
Kings are looking to move Cousins - Teague, #15, future pick(s) and whatever else is something that moves us closer to championship contention sooner.

I have yet to see where Cousins is being shopped....a link would be helpful. The only one spreading those rumors are teams like the Celtics, who need a big splash to get reengaged into contention.

We are in a very good position, similar to Indy last year, but with more flexibility. A couple of starter replacements and Indy couldn't make the playoffs. So it is a possibility that same scenario happens here. The key is putting the pieces in place just in case we lose our FAs.
Looking at the SA system, the core pieces were retained year after year. Pop moved George Hill, Stephen Jackson, Dennis Rodman, & Luis Scola, but really didn't take too bad a hit on any of them.
I don't see Bud doing anything more than getting his starters some help...his current starters. So, since the league has changed a bit, and we have room to add pieces to our roster, but they might have to accept coming off the bench.

My goal is to see us improve our SG position, as Korver needs help. So more defense, more outside shooting, and someone to take the Antic/Muscala/Brand role.....and not a minimum vet.

[hawkschop1]

teague is the head of the snake and like rip said trading him would be insane. IMO.

[Rip2137]

Sigh…
Jamal, I didn’t say ANY of that and you know I didn’t.

Let’s trade Kyle Korver for Evan Turner. No? Well then clearly you think Kyle Korver is going to lead us to a championship and is untradeable. That’s the logic you used in that long, rambling post.

You can trade anyone on this team if it improves the team. I am fine with that. Your scenario makes the team worse. That is what I have a problem with. Its simple as that.

Look, despite some of these insane requirements you all have for Jeff Teague (apparently he has to average 26-8 a game, never have a off shooting night, and never make a bad play) he is one of the top 10 point guards in the game(higher in my eyes) and our best player. You don’t trade your best player unless the guy you are bringing in is going to be your best player when you are a winning, championship caliber team. And we are a championship caliber team. If you are a middling team and looking to reset, yes, you can trade your best player for cap space, picks or lesser players and be okay. We are not a middling team.

You guys are constantly ignoring the truth to feed your biases some times. Most of you all are completely set on Al Horford HAVING to be a PF and us being too small to win a championship. So you ignore Millsap missing the last 2 weeks of the season and playing injured. So of course you try and say we struggled against the Nets due to size…despite out rebounding them, and our bigs outplaying them once Horford got a little used to that finger wrap...you talk about us struggling against Washington’s bigs despite the fact that our frontline out played theirs by a HUGE MARGIN. You talk about how if we were bigger against Cleveland it would have been a different series, despite 2 7 footers in Chicago not being able to keep Thompson off the board and now another 7 footer has been benched in the finals because he couldn’t keep up with the frontline of Cleveland and they went smaller than we are.

Depth is the difference between this team being in the finals and not. Upgrade the 2 and have Korver on the bench. Upgrade your backup bigs and you can sit Millsap longer. Get ANYTHING from the backup point and your offense doesn’t go in the tank every time Teague leaves the floor. A overhaul at this point is just plain stupid.

I will say again. Year TWO of this system, we win the conference and go to the NBA Conference Finals. YEAR TWO. You want to start over and say “We will get back to where the franchise never got EVER IN ITS HISTORY in 3-4 years, no problem.” THAT’S what wrong with your pitch. If we could get DMC for Teague and the 15 then hell yeah, trade him. Trading him for a pick that MIGHT be able to contribute to a championship caliber team in a few years and fringe NBA players is ridiculous. And if you weren’t so bias towards seeing Dennis Schroder start, you would see that. Honestly say that if Schroder had put up Teague’s numbers in the conference finals you wouldn’t be shouting from the mountain tops what a star this kid is and what a superstar he is going to be, quoting every post I ever had doubting him and taking multiple victory laps. But Teague put up those numbers and he is just “good”.

[PandaKidd]

Jeff Teague (apparently he has to average 26-8 a game, never have a off shooting night, and never make a bad play) he is one of the top 10 point guards in the game(higher in my eyes) and our best player.

Youre smoking Crack. Hes not Top 10. And thats where we differ. Teague is a GOOD player, hes not a GREAT player and hes NOT a top 10 talent.

Hes our best trade chip, because of hes a 12-15 million dollar producer being paid 8 million and hes YOUNG. everything else you said is pointless, because it doesnt change the fact hes the best trade bait we have.

You can blame injuries, you can blame a lot of things. But this team wasnt playing well before the PM injury. They certainly didnt play well after either. TT absolutely abused our bigs. This is nothing new. So did Brook Lopez.

you guys are arguing things in a vacuum, trading Teague would mean we got significantly better at another position, otherwise im not for it. I dont value the PG position as highly as others, I think if you could trade Teague and land a legit C/SF/SG and replace him with a vet, id do it in a heartbeat.

Ive seen Teagues ceiling, and its not in the same realm of CP3/Harden/Curry/KI/Rose/Wall/Westbrook/Conley , aka teams we will have to battle for the forseeable future. All those teams have legit Big men, rebounding, and create your own shot SGs, only the clippers are sans a legit SG, and you see that as a MAJOR weakness for them.