The #2 Pick

[dockingsched]

if you use the pick to trade for Drummond, you basically bank your entire future on him. With Drummond due for a huge deal next summer when the cap rises, the price isn't just the pick, you're also sacrificing a lot of cap room that could be used elsewhere. He'd need to be a championship cornerstone for that type of price, and if in the lakers I'm not willing to put all my eggs in the Drummond basket.

If you are the Lakers and you know you want a big with that draft pick, do you draft a big like Okafor who despite the "Hakeem-like" offensive game still slid while another big was picked in front of him (red flag), or do you trade that pick for a big like Drummond. Without pulling up the CBA FAQ, I'd assume the #2 pick is making 5-6 mill his initial season, so we are really not sacrificing an extra 8-10 mill a year on a franchise big like Drummond to be penny pinchers? I thought we are the Lakers?

first, gotta stop making this about just Okafor. The number two pick can be someone else too if you are so down on Okafor.

Anyway, the salary point has nothing to do with the Lakers being penny pinchers. It has everything to do with opportunity costs. I thought I communicated that point well, apologies if that wasn't clear.

[ak7]

I don't see how we could even consider trading the #2 for someone outside Durant/Westrbook/Lebron/AD/Curry which obviously won't happen. Even if someone like Drummond is better than Okafor the opportunity cost is a net loss. I would rather have: Okafor + 2 max FA's then Drummond + 1 max free agent. It baffles me that it could be considered a good idea by anyone to make a trade like this.

Two max free agents (I assume we are talking Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, AD possibly, etc) are going to team up in Los Angeles because what? It's LA? They are more accessible to being on Jimmy Kimmel? They can play with 20, 21 years old who aren't established, but it's still LA? Every team in the league is going to have 1-2 max slots available with already established players on their roster in the coming years with the salary cap boom. Also, with Kobe's contract ending, we still have a net gain of cap space even with Drummond onboard.

The people who think we are going to sign two random max free agents with no established player base (meaning not just role players on a good team) given the current landscape of the league are delusional.

[ak7]

if you use the pick to trade for Drummond, you basically bank your entire future on him. With Drummond due for a huge deal next summer when the cap rises, the price isn't just the pick, you're also sacrificing a lot of cap room that could be used elsewhere. He'd need to be a championship cornerstone for that type of price, and if in the lakers I'm not willing to put all my eggs in the Drummond basket.

If you are the Lakers and you know you want a big with that draft pick, do you draft a big like Okafor who despite the "Hakeem-like" offensive game still slid while another big was picked in front of him (red flag), or do you trade that pick for a big like Drummond. Without pulling up the CBA FAQ, I'd assume the #2 pick is making 5-6 mill his initial season, so we are really not sacrificing an extra 8-10 mill a year on a franchise big like Drummond to be penny pinchers? I thought we are the Lakers?

first, gotta stop making this about just Okafor. The number two pick can be someone else too if you are so down on Okafor.

Anyway, the salary point has nothing to do with the Lakers being penny pinchers. It has everything to do with opportunity costs. I thought I communicated that point well, apologies if that wasn't clear.

Opportunity costs? If there are league execs who feel Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler are max players, Andre Drummond is one as well - on any team, in any situation, even if you are giving up only a $6-7 million cap hit on a #2 pick. You are acting like we have $65 million tied up in salary going forward when that is not the case.

This isn't really just about Okafor, this whole discussion stemmed from a few posters and myself feeling we have a bigger need going forward at guard then an offensive center who can't defend/rebound. I'd much rather see Russell/Mudiay then Okafor. The tangent was obviously definitely targeted at Okafor, because the way most of these guys here talk about him, Towns' ceiling should be the #2 pick and that is obviously not the case either. That in it's own right shows that Okafor has major, major flaws in his game.

[LApwnd]

Drummond not a good pick and roll defender? You are very mistaken. I will leave this here:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVDtx1NtwvY[/youtube]

for all your Drummond praise, below is the fg% allowed with Drummond on and off the court...I'll let you guess which is which.


Effective FG% Allowed 50.4% 49.8% +0.6%

There is a reason why this stat isn't even considered when comparing team defenses. The amount of variables affecting this stat are literally in the thousands.

anyone can use stats to justify one owns agenda.....fact is Det sucks offensively and rank in the middle pack in terms of D. However you want to justify that as NOT being Drummonds fault he is a big factor in it as he is the main paint protector.

[kblo247]

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing 16s17 seconds ago

Kupchak said he has been so far unsuccessful getting @KarlTowns to come for Lakers workout and/or meeting but believes it will happen.

He ain't trying to be a laker ... 3 dog race as we were the other guys first workout

[Gus McCrae]

I don't see how we could even consider trading the #2 for someone outside Durant/Westrbook/Lebron/AD/Curry which obviously won't happen. Even if someone like Drummond is better than Okafor the opportunity cost is a net loss. I would rather have: Okafor + 2 max FA's then Drummond + 1 max free agent. It baffles me that it could be considered a good idea by anyone to make a trade like this.

Two max free agents (I assume we are talking Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, AD possibly, etc) are going to team up in Los Angeles because what? It's LA? They are more accessible to being on Jimmy Kimmel? They can play with 20, 21 years old who aren't established, but it's still LA? Every team in the league is going to have 1-2 max slots available with already established players on their roster in the coming years with the salary cap boom. Also, with Kobe's contract ending, we still have a net gain of cap space even with Drummond onboard.

The people who think we are going to sign two random max free agents with no established player base (meaning not just role players on a good team) given the current landscape of the league are delusional.

You are incorrect by assuming I'm talking about signing 2 of KD, Westbrook and AD. I don't see us getting 2 superstar players ala what the Heat did or Celtics Big 3 did. But there's still a tier of max players outside of ALL-NBA first team guys who'd be great additions. Marc Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George, etc. Then you have a tier of Demare Carroll, Wes Mathews, Mike Conley type of guys as well (i'd put conley in group a but just for illustrative purposes.)

So yes, i would like to preserve cap space to go after as many of these guys as we can. So my point is, say you want to go after a big fish like KD or Westbrook, is it more desirable to him if you have Drummond/Clarkson/Randle or something like Okafor/Clarkson/Randle/Marc Gasol. or Okafor/Clarkson/Randle/Mike Conley/Wes Matthews.

On your second point. Yes, LA is more desirable than 90% of the NBA cities and when salaries and quality of teams are equal and a FA is considering that LA weather is gonna be the card that puts us over the top.

[ALL HAIL]

There should be no scenario where we don't pick Towns or Okafor. I don't think people here realize just how lucky we got. We not only got to keep our pick, we landed in the the top tier of the draft. And now you guys want to go small? I like Russell, but he has some serious flaws, and he might not translate very well. We'd be very foolish to go in that direction.

Okafor is godly on offense. We're talking the best post moves since Hakeem. Watch his highlights at Duke again, footwork very few players have ever displayed. Coach K doesn't coach defense, so the defensive concerns are overblown. He's 18-19 years old, I think he can be capable. We need to surround him with the right players, and bring in a tough defensive culture.

Towns has a skill set few guys have at his size. He's so mobile, and will be perfect for blowing up opposing pick and rolls. He'll run the floor and finish too. Great jump shot, and a great competitor. He's a can't miss prospect, and reminds me a little of KG.

I would hate to be the team sitting on Russell or Mudiay while two other teams select a franchise center. Not enough explosiveness/athleticism to warrant the selecting Mudiay/Russell.

Other than some of your creative embellishment, I agree with a lot if what you're saying here.

Its not cool, however, how you lump Russell and Mudiay in together like they're connected at the hip; they're not.

Towns one. Okafor two for me, but Mudiay is the wildcard.

I've seen more than enough of Russell to know what he is. No way he should go ahead of the Towns\Okafor. I don't care what he shows in private workouts or how he sounds or what kitten he's saving from trees. I disagree with doc on his point that more info is needed here. More info would help some -- obviously -- but with Russell, it isn't vitally important. We've seen him enough to know his game.

Mudiay is different. Unless you're like kblo and watched all twelve of his Chinese games, most of us are only relegated to highlight reels and scouting report videos -- that's not nearly enough.

This is where doc's point has validity. With Mudiay, the "extra" information we're not previed to is extremely important. The intel that the Lakers gather on Mudiay WILL tell the story ... and at that point I have no choice but to have faith in them.

As it stands though, the Lakers undoubtedly are looking at the two bigs as the primary target.

Mudiay and Russell's job was to make the question.

[miggs]

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing 16s17 seconds ago

Kupchak said he has been so far unsuccessful getting @KarlTowns to come for Lakers workout and/or meeting but believes it will happen.

He ain't trying to be a laker ... 3 dog race as we were the other guys first workout

I saw that same twitter post from Ding and was wondering the same, does this mean Towns doesn't want to be a Laker? I do remember during the lottery his face when the 4th pick was announced and it was the NYK, he had the most sour face as they announced the top 3 picks. It seems clear Towns wanted to go to NYK, especially after hearing his MSG story.

The more I saw of Okafor in the twitter feed today for his workout, the more I like his game next to our core group. He looks good in purple n gold too.

Okafor dined with LAL mgmt and tonight will dine with Coach Scott and his staff per Twitter.

[Slava]

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing 16s17 seconds ago

Kupchak said he has been so far unsuccessful getting @KarlTowns to come for Lakers workout and/or meeting but believes it will happen.

He ain't trying to be a laker ... 3 dog race as we were the other guys first workout

That makes no sense, he made it clear that he wouldn't workout for anyone, which seems fair but he already had dinner with Julius Randle while in LA. Why would he refuse to do the same with Mitch?

[Kilroy]

I think Minni and NY might try to swap picks. Not sure how that happens though. NY has nothing to offer.

[miggs]

I think Towns met with Randle just as old Kentucky players, doesn't seem Towns wants to be here otherwise why won't he meet anyone.

I too think the wolves and knicks are talking swaps, I tried to work the trade machine and figured either:

a - NYK gets Pekovic
b - Involve a 3rd team

Rubio seems tradeable, he said he's staying in Minny but I didn't hear of mgmt denying the story that for the right deal he'd be available.

Knicks only assets are... Hardway Jr? Larkin?

[Slava]

Knicks have **** all to trade unless they send Melo to Minnesota, which would be hilarious.

[miggs]

For sure minny tries to push pekovic on nyk if they're going down to the 4th pick. nyk gotta include calderon's contract

[miggs]

Trade won't match up on the trade machine though, may have to wait until the summer when Bargs is off the books so they can do the deal. As I don't think the NYK can even trade their pick until AFTER they've drafted right? or can't trade it until the summer? Does anyone know the specifics on this one

[kblo247]

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing 16s17 seconds ago

Kupchak said he has been so far unsuccessful getting @KarlTowns to come for Lakers workout and/or meeting but believes it will happen.

He ain't trying to be a laker ... 3 dog race as we were the other guys first workout

That makes no sense, he made it clear that he wouldn't workout for anyone, which seems fair but he already had dinner with Julius Randle while in LA. Why would he refuse to do the same with Mitch?

Those 2 and trill had dinner ... I assumed it was just a Kentucky thing tbh

[LApwnd]

I think Towns met with Randle just as old Kentucky players, doesn't seem Towns wants to be here otherwise why won't he meet anyone.

I too think the wolves and knicks are talking swaps, I tried to work the trade machine and figured either:

a - NYK gets Pekovic
b - Involve a 3rd team

Rubio seems tradeable, he said he's staying in Minny but I didn't hear of mgmt denying the story that for the right deal he'd be available.

Knicks only assets are... Hardway Jr? Larkin?

Towns isn't meeting or doing workout for Minn either so who cares, he's pretty much guaranteed #1 already. The less teams see of him the less they can poke holes in his game.

[Rafer24]

If Towns doesn´t want to be in L.A, move on. I still think he is Minnesotta bound.

It´s pretty clear Okafor does , and i´m sure Russell and Mudiay would love to be a laker as well.

[Slava]

For sure minny tries to push pekovic on nyk if they're going down to the 4th pick. nyk gotta include calderon's contract

What does Minnesota do with cap space? No one ever signs there. If they trade down, its definitively not with the Knicks. May be Philly offers Noel + #3 for Rubio + #1?

[miggs]

For sure minny tries to push pekovic on nyk if they're going down to the 4th pick. nyk gotta include calderon's contract

What does Minnesota do with cap space? No one ever signs there. If they trade down, its definitively not with the Knicks. May be Philly offers Noel + #3 for Rubio + #1?

Why would Philly want the #1 pick? I think a trade with NYK is more likely than one with PHI. I think PHI is eyeing Russell/Mudiay and not at all Towns/Okafor

[miggs]

As for the cap space, it's not about Minny creating cap space it's about them making the deal work for them, I mean we all agree NYK has nothing but the #4 pick to give up for the #1.