Paul George to Play PF?

[Jake0890]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/06/04/paul-george-ready-to-play-power-forward/28500275/

Paul George is not only OK playing power forward for the Indiana Pacers -- he's been working at it.

"I'll be ready for it. I'm working on making that change and being prepared to play some forward this year," George said Thursday. "I understand what Larry (Bird) wants as far as playing the faster pace. I mean, I'm for it. That's the way the league is going nowadays."

....

After last season, Bird had some ideas for George when he returns this season.

"David is our starter, but when we go smaller, we'd like to see Paul maybe play some (power forward) and you know everybody says, 'You'll have a problem on the defensive end.' Well, I don't think so," Bird said in April. "He can guard about anybody, and then on the other end, it's a major plus for us."

Thought it was interesting. Started his career playing SG migrating to PF now a la Rudy Gay. Perhaps playing a lot of small ball next year? Next year is probably the last time we see Hibbert in a Pacers jersey, imo.

[Wizop]

I don't think we've made a Hibbert decision yet. We've made it clear that he'll have to earn PT this year. The next steps are his beginning with his contract option.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't think we've made a Hibbert decision yet. We've made it clear that he'll have to earn PT this year. The next steps are his beginning with his contract option.

I think it's likely Hibbert is a Pacer this upcoming year, but I can't imagine that he, nor his agent, would have any interest in sticking around once he's unrestricted.

[Wizop]

I can't imagine that he, nor his agent, would have any interest in sticking around once he's unrestricted.

I think that all depends on how this year plays out. Roy's been given a challenge to earn his PT and if he rises to the challenge he could be happy here. then again he could sulk and play his way to the bench.

[countryboy667]

This worries me....for all the positives I hear about it here in RealGM, I'm not a fan of small ball as a consistent strategy...I'm old school...remember Wilt, Russ, Bells, the Chief et al...personal favorite was Thurmond...put big Nate on this team at anywhere near his prime, we walk to the title...Roy Hibbert may not be the answer, but my experience is that teams still need a reliable big at the 5 or the 4 to protect the rim and rebound the ball...I was a huge fan of Dale Davis...we need someone like him on this team, and it became clear to me last year that West, as much as I like him, has lost more than a step...I'm as frustrated with Hibbert as anyone, but despite his failings, he's usually good as a rim protector...with Paul back and a George Hill playing much better with the Lance Stephenson gone and exposed for the cancer he was, and a much improved bench that we lacked so long before last year, I think we have enough scorers, just need Roy to focus on defense and the boards... Myself, I hope we draft a big in the first round ...Portis, Kaminsky, Turner...go for a "project" PG in the 2nd...

[Scoot McGroot]

This worries me....for all the positives I hear about it here in RealGM, I'm not a fan of small ball as a consistent strategy...I'm old school...remember Wilt, Russ, Bells, the Chief et al...personal favorite was Thurmond...put big Nate on this team at anywhere near his prime, we walk to the title...Roy Hibbert may not be the answer, but my experience is that teams still need a reliable big at the 5 or the 4 to protect the rim and rebound the ball...I was a huge fan of Dale Davis...we need someone like him on this team, and it became clear to me last year that West, as much as I like him, has lost more than a step...I'm as frustrated with Hibbert as anyone, but despite his failings, he's usually good as a rim protector...with Paul back and a George Hill playing much better with the Lance Stephenson gone and exposed for the cancer he was, and a much improved bench that we lacked so long before last year, I think we have enough scorers, just need Roy to focus on defense and the boards... Myself, I hope we draft a big in the first round ...Portis, Kaminsky, Turner...go for a "project" PG in the 2nd...

We're the last of the old school teams; a team that plays a traditional big man at the 4 and 5 that stays inside the arc. We've been abused by the fact that pretty much every team has a "position-less" lineup system. You have to be able to shoot at every position nowadays, or else the defenses just sag off you and double team the rest of the lineup. Also, putting an interior offensive guy brings more defenders into the paint, negating the benefits of the current hand-check rules in the NBA of being able to get to the hoop at will. It's tough. It's not so much that we're trying something revolutionary: quite the opposite. We're one of the last teams to come around to this. Look at the NBA playoffs. In the East, Cleveland has played Love at the 4. Atlanta has played Paul Millsap. You've got Giannis Antetokounmpo, Gooden/Porter, Valanciunas, Mirotic/Gasol, Thad Young, Olynyk/Sullinger all drifting away from the basket. In the West? Anthony Davis/Ryan Anderson, Draymond, Dirk, Josh Smith/TJones/Motiejunas, Griffin and Diaw all floating away as well. The only teams in the playoffs that are like us? Two more traditional big men? Memphis and Portland.

I'm not saying I love the idea of Paul George playing the 4. I'm not as worried about it as I was 5 years ago with Granger, though. Heck, guys like Durant and Lebron play the 4 for good runs in their games. Carmelo, too. It allows them to dictate the style of play, and to force mis-matches. It's just happening now. It's partially why I'd like Trey Lyles/Kaminsky kind of big man. Those are two guys that kind of embody the direction of the NBA. Guys that can go inside, but can also run the perimeter effectively.

[Miller4ever]

Aldridge has been extending his range because of the way it's going.

From an advanced gaming philosophy, most competitive games played on fields come down to space control at the highest levels. In football, tennis, Street Fighter, boxing...it's all about controlling space in the metagame. So offensively in the NBA you have to be able to control the game by controlling where on the court the defense has to focus on. Positions in the NBA have always been arbitrary, and unless the rules change, spacing is the way the game is played today. You don't necessarily have to sink 20 3's a game, but you better have your opponent's defense worried about that possibility.

[Wizop]

we're going to have to get by Cleveland with LeBron playing almost everywhere. PG and Solo will need to play wherever he plays and I don't want to do that for the first time in the playoffs. We need to be very comfortable playing both big and small. We also need to be more comfortable in a zone and playing against a zone than we have been in the past.

[countryboy667]

While Hibbert is inconsistent, it's not like he's always a zero on offense...he's averaged 11 ppg for his career. With the other scorers we now have, that should be sufficient, enough of a threat that he can't be ignored. He does need to focus more on his rebounding. I also don't understand why he doesn't use that little hook shot more often--when he does use it, it has historically been pretty effective. As has been beaten to death on this board, Roy's problems--while he's not a great athlete--are more mental than physical.
I love the game, but I can't say I'm overly enamored of the style of play in today's NBA--too much has been sacrificed in terms of the basics to make the game look "pretty". As much as it is blatantly ignored, you might as well just take the steps rule out of the books. Same with palming the ball. Very few, if any, bigs today have a really killer outlet pass a la Bill Russell. If the rules on steps and palming were enforced, they'd have to shut down the league because there's not a man-jack in the NBA today that could be effective without violating them. The way they are ignored is not a trifle--it's a basic change in the game that makes it nearly a totally different animal from the way the game was conceived. I can enjoy watching the result, but in my opinion the game has lost a lot due to these fundamental changes. Roy is a current, if less talented victim of these changes, and the sad result is that fans of the game will never be able to thrill to the battle of the titans the way I got to see them--Wilt v Russ, Russ v Thurmond, etc., etc.
I have no problems with a big who can spread the floor. But if they can't do the job in the trenches as well--rebounding, rim protection, and overall defense--I'm not impressed.
Sorry for the digression...

[Scoot McGroot]

While Hibbert is inconsistent, it's not like he's always a zero on offense...he's averaged 11 ppg for his career. With the other scorers we now have, that should be sufficient, enough of a threat that he can't be ignored. He does need to focus more on his rebounding. I also don't understand why he doesn't use that little hook shot more often--when he does use it, it has historically been pretty effective. As has been beaten to death on this board, Roy's problems--while he's not a great athlete--are more mental than physical.
I love the game, but I can't say I'm overly enamored of the style of play in today's NBA--too much has been sacrificed in terms of the basics to make the game look "pretty". As much as it is blatantly ignored, you might as well just take the steps rule out of the books. Same with palming the ball. Very few, if any, bigs today have a really killer outlet pass a la Bill Russell. If the rules on steps and palming were enforced, they'd have to shut down the league because there's not a man-jack in the NBA today that could be effective without violating them. The way they are ignored is not a trifle--it's a basic change in the game that makes it nearly a totally different animal from the way the game was conceived. I can enjoy watching the result, but in my opinion the game has lost a lot due to these fundamental changes. Roy is a current, if less talented victim of these changes, and the sad result is that fans of the game will never be able to thrill to the battle of the titans the way I got to see them--Wilt v Russ, Russ v Thurmond, etc., etc.
I have no problems with a big who can spread the floor. But if they can't do the job in the trenches as well--rebounding, rim protection, and overall defense--I'm not impressed.
Sorry for the digression...

No worries. You're fine. That's what this forum is here for!

As for outlet passes from big men? Watch Kevin Love. You'll appreciate that.

As for Roy? The reason he doesn't use the hook shot more is because he's trained himself in a way that he has to be in a certain exact spot on the floor, make the same exact move, and be in perfect position for it, and guys have figured it out. Plus the fact that he has world's of trouble establishing position inside enough to get to his spot, and it's rare he gets to use it. He'd have been chewed up by the classic big men of the league who knew how to fight for position. Heck, even in the 90's he'd have been chewed up by the Oakley's and such of the league.


Off topic, I got to meet and talk with Nate Thurmond when I managed a hotel for a couple years. He and his wife would stay with us a couple weekends a year (I was in Cleveland, he's from Akron originally...I think they had kids that lived in the area?). Nice guy, both he and his wife. I always felt bad when he'd come down for breakfast because when he sat, his knees would bend and be a foot above the table! He seemed to be in rough shape, physically though. His oversized body has a lot of wear and tear. He was moving very slowly and always asked for a room right by the entrance/breakfast area/front desk.

[countryboy667]

i loved watching Nate at Bowling Green where he teamed with Howie Komives--they talk about how ripped guys like Karl Malone and Dwight Howard are--Thurmond was just pure muscle. You could put together three-fourths of a pretty good all-time team from Akron--Thurmond, LeBron James, Gus Johnson and Stephen Curry...all you need is another guard...Thurmond at the five, LeBron at the four, Gus Johnson at the three, and Curry at the two...borrow Norm Van Lier from East Liverpool and you have title team with four starters from the same Ohio city.
I don't know what it would take to make Roy play mean--maybe Bird's statement will do it. I hope so because it's hard not txo like the guy, and he has the size and muscle--if he would use it.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't know what it would take to make Roy play mean--maybe Bird's statement will do it. I hope so because it's hard not txo like the guy, and he has the size and muscle--if he would use it.

He's had so many chances...so many motivators....so many insults to him throughout his career, and has attempted to play mean so many times, but it's just never changed. I don't see it ever happening.

That's not a bad thing. It's just, he is what he is. A top notch rim defender that's learning to shoot a little more away from the rim so as not to hurt his team as much offensively.

[Scoot McGroot]

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2015/06/1 ... e-game-up/

Speaking of Nate, he's been appearing on Cleveland radio during the finals. There's a link for you.

[boomershadow]

Washington in the playoffs this year is agood example of this change in philosophy working well for a team. I also feel it is important to reiterate that this won't be all the time. West is still our starting 4. But last year and the year before with PG healthy we would have stretches midgame where we couldn't get many points. Combine that withan offense that ranks near the bottom in the league and we got a problem. This is one option we have for a way to combat that problem, even if it seems incongruous that last year we were playing Copeland and Rudez at the 3 when they might have been more comfortable as undersized 4s.

I would put last year's Chicago on the list of old school, big frontcourt teams, though it seems likely that may not be the case next year.

[Scoot McGroot]

Washington in the playoffs this year is agood example of this change in philosophy working well for a team. I also feel it is important to reiterate that this won't be all the time. West is still our starting 4. But last year and the year before with PG healthy we would have stretches midgame where we couldn't get many points. Combine that withan offense that ranks near the bottom in the league and we got a problem. This is one option we have for a way to combat that problem, even if it seems incongruous that last year we were playing Copeland and Rudez at the 3 when they might have been more comfortable as undersized 4s.

I would put last year's Chicago on the list of old school, big frontcourt teams, though it seems likely that may not be the case next year.

I don't know about that. Gasol took over 40% of his shots past 10'. Gibson plays inside. Mirotic took 3's over 50% of the time. Noah plays inside. It's range shooting, with the lesser shooters staying close to the basket for rebounding purposes. However, Gibson, Mirotic, and Noah are all still pretty mobile. Gasol used to be, but is slowing down a bit.

[boomershadow]

I don't know about that. Gasol took over 40% of his shots past 10'. Gibson plays inside. Mirotic took 3's over 50% of the time. Noah plays inside. It's range shooting, with the lesser shooters staying close to the basket for rebounding purposes. However, Gibson, Mirotic, and Noah are all still pretty mobile. Gasol used to be, but is slowing down a bit.

Noah this season wasn't mobile the way he used to be. Mirotic didn't play that much and was sometimes at SF. And Gasol has a midrange game, sure, but so do West and Scola.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't know about that. Gasol took over 40% of his shots past 10'. Gibson plays inside. Mirotic took 3's over 50% of the time. Noah plays inside. It's range shooting, with the lesser shooters staying close to the basket for rebounding purposes. However, Gibson, Mirotic, and Noah are all still pretty mobile. Gasol used to be, but is slowing down a bit.

Noah this season wasn't mobile the way he used to be. Mirotic didn't play that much and was sometimes at SF. And Gasol has a midrange game, sure, but so do West and Scola.

He played 20 minutes a night in all 82 games. Also, only 4% of his minutes this year were at the 3. The other 96% were as the 4 or 5.

And for Noah, even though he really should only shoot within 5', he loves to play up top or at the elbows for better passing lanes. He's not a down low traditional banger.

[Wizop]

I also think Rudez should get some time at four. If we can resign Stuckey, we'll have Stuckey, George, Solo, and Miles on the wing which suggests that Damo will have an easier time finding PT at 4 than at 3. What that says about the need to resign Scola is a good question though.