NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I found myself rooting for Cleveland last night. I couldn't believe it but it's true.

I know I'll be flamed for this but I really do not enjoy watching GSW play. They come down and shoot the first contested 3 they get. Curry was 2-15 from 3. Best handles in the league and refused to take it to the rim.

I'm not mad at LBJ anymore. Watching him play is a pleasure. And without any other superstars around him, he has to put the team on his back.

Eh, I understand. It is irritating watching them play their soft ass brand of basketball. Same story with Houston and Portland and Dallas and many of the other elite offensive teams in the West. And Curry plays with so little urgency sometimes that it's irritating. Even that game-tying lay up he rolled in was executed as slooooow as molasses. That's not a situation to try and run off clock and the last time he pussy footed around with an easy lay up, Kyrie Irving, of all people, stuffed his ass. Reminds me of the times Wall has tracked him down and embarrassed him with a chase down block.

I've got to say, there has been some Emperor's New Clothes effect with Curry, the Warriors, and the Western Conference as a whole in the first two games of this series. The WC just looks soft now, their best and baddest team is getting bullied around by Tristan Thompson and Timofey Mozgov. Bogut looks like an utter bum and Draymond Green looks very limited. It's a foolish team that gives him a max contract BTW. And Curry has made so little impact beyond his shooting and scoring that it's been a very, very stark contrast between him and LeBron. Because of this, I don't think it's a stretch to think that Wall will be a better and more impactful player than Curry in a couple seasons. John is so much more active and physical than him.

The media and IMO less knowledgeable NBA fans didn't notice that the top east teams did beat the top west teams much of the time in the regular season. Washington waxed Memphis. Atlanta and Chicago beat Golden State.

I'm not surprised that Cleveland is MORE EFFECTIVE WITHOUT Love and Irving. Real Plus Minus, and guys like Thompson and Dellavedova are matching up well.

Steve, I think Klay Thompson will emerge and Steph Curry will be a playmaker much more. Curry is too smart not to adapt to the physical play.

[stevemcqueen1]

The media and IMO less knowledgeable NBA fans didn't notice that the top east teams did beat the top west teams much of the time in the regular season. Washington waxed Memphis. Atlanta and Chicago beat Golden State.

I'm not surprised that Cleveland is MORE EFFECTIVE WITHOUT Love and Irving. Real Plus Minus, and guys like Thompson and Dellavedova are matching up well.

Steve, I think Klay Thompson will emerge and Steph Curry will be a playmaker much more. Curry is too smart not to adapt to the physical play.

I think Curry will adjust too. That offense gives him the a ton of freedom to take any shot he wants, but not a ton of freedom to create for others. It's very scripted and the movement is precise and the ball leaves his hands a lot when he's not the first scoring option. Having him become more of a playmaker and Klay more of the finisher is going to take time because the offense will have to evolve.

Klay is something else though. I love his fearlessness, he's really been aggressive in both games. Shot wasn't necessarily falling in game one, but it sure was in game two. He's become a bonafide star and I think he's going to continue to blossom as a scorer over the next several seasons.

I think Steph will shoot better moving forward and that'll be the main source of his improvement. But he's also going to need Barnes, Green, Iggy, and especially Bogut to execute better on offense. Golden State alternated between chucking bad fresh clock threes and playing glacially slow half court offense. Bogut is an embarrassment. Sometimes he doesn't drag his ass over the half court line until the shot clock ticks 13 or 14 on plays where he inbounds it... And then he stands around in the high post hoping they don't pass it to him. And then Cleveland figured out how scared he was and started to intentionally foul him until Kerr recognized the situation and immediately yanked him. I'm not sure Jan Vesely was ever this frightened and useless. He at least played with energy. Iggy has been way too timid and quick to pass too. There's unselfishness and then there is making bad decisions to pass, such as making Maurice Speights, of all people, run the break in the sequence that led to that embarrassing and disastrous missed dunk. Speights should never have had to dribble at all.

Golden State actually looks like an inept fast break team. LeBron scores and gets to the FT line against 1 on 3s. Klay did it once last game, and I applaud him for it. And Barnes can really run the floor. But nobody else on GS seems to play at that speed. And the decision making has looked terrible, too many times where they screwed up the break when they had even or better numbers. Those situations need to be automatic points.

But just in general, that ball is hot potatoing around way too much for Golden State. And even Curry is passing up lay ups for unnecessary kick outs. Klay has been the only one playing consistently aggressive. And the end result is that way too many possessions end up with Curry catching the ball with two seconds on the shot clock and having to chuck a three that has zero chance. That just exacerbated a cold shooting night for him.

[Higga]

I think this years playoffs are proving that you can still win playing dirty, grimy style of basketball. Maybe not win 60+ regular season games, but in the playoffs you can still win out toughing and out grinding the opposition.

Aka, Wizards Basketball.

[queridiculo]

If there's one take away from this series so far it's that possessions matter. Both Thompson and Curry waste too many of them with bad shots and Cleveland is using their size advantage to hold the Warriors to one shot.

Another thing, it's pretty incredible to me that the Warriors haven't been able to solve the Cavaliers trap.

Last game I saw the Warriors run a double screen on the top of the key which resulted in an easy scoring opportunity inside.

Haven't seen them go back to that play even once since. It's dribble, dribble, probe, culminating in a contested or off-balance shot.

They have to get Thompson and Mozgov away from the basket or the Warriors are going to starve taking poor shots on the perimeter.

It also helps that Cleveland is able to keep the Warriors busy boxing out and fighting for defensive boards without having to commit extra men to crash the board.

The Warriors are barely getting any opportunities on the break because Cleveland is consistently bracketing them with three players ready to defend.

[queridiculo]

I think this years playoffs are proving that you can still win playing dirty, grimy style of basketball. Maybe not win 60+ regular season games, but in the playoffs you can still win out toughing and out grinding the opposition.

Aka, Wizards Basketball.

It helps that Cleveland has two mobile bigs that can defend in space, alter shots and rebound on both sides of the court.

Washington really wouldn't have an answer for the Cavaliers in post season play. Nene is done, and Gortat never seems to be able to perform consistently against level competition.

[nuposse04]

I honestly believe GSW benefits from their system a lot. But when that system falls apart the flaws in their player are apparent. Barnes is overrated, Klay is most definitely overrated, Green...maybe mildly overrated. Curry is great but when his shot isn't on...he need to find more ways to contribute. GSW is gettin bitched... they need to stop being so mentally weak.

[Induveca]

I honestly believe GSW benefits from their system a lot. But when that system falls apart the flaws in their player are apparent. Barnes is overrated, Klay is most definitely overrated, Green...maybe mildly overrated. Curry is great but when his shot isn't on...he need to find more ways to contribute. GSW is gettin bitched... they need to stop being so mentally weak.

Agreed completely. Physicality and extreme determination are two variables which simply aren't present for the vast majority of the regular season.

I own a company which deals strictly with building AI on demand for specific industries. It's based on gigabytes of data, catered to a business, the main issue all AI companies face is what happens when the "norm" is not the "norm".

That's what we're seeing right now. You can't judge a ceiling or floor accurately unless there is precedent for that set of variables being exposed to similar circumstances. And it's very much specific to the individual players. You can attempt to determine equivalents from similar historical occurrences but it simply can't be relied upon like it can for game 55 of the regular season.

[queridiculo]

Overrated hardly, but if the Warriors don't find a way to switch it up, they're going to be out of it before they had a chance to really get into the series.

The Cavs know exactly where they need to be on defense, when to blitz the pick and roll, when to switch, when to help. They're in the Warriors heads, and Golden State is bailing the Cavaliers out by stubbornly refusing to adjust their game.

[pineappleheadindc]

Look at The Bron's supporting cast of ex NY Knicks + bunch of others.

At the risk of getting totally roasted, let me say this: Yeah, current Lebron is by far the best player on the planet. Better than peak Kobe and as good as peak Jordan.

[AFM]

Curry looking like Eric Maynor


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[LyricalRico]

Look at The Bron's supporting cast of ex NY Knicks + bunch of others.

The same guys Melo got nowhere with. LOL

[LyricalRico]

GS loses, but nice to see Curry show up at the end. Too late, though.

[queridiculo]

Look at The Bron's supporting cast of ex NY Knicks + bunch of others.

At the risk of getting totally roasted, let me say this: Yeah, current Lebron is by far the best player on the planet. Better than peak Kobe and as good as peak Jordan.

I'll concede Kobe, but naw, he's not on peak Jordan's level.

[AFM]

2 completely different players
point fwd vs a sg/sf

Jordan wouldnt have grabbed 12 boards like Lebron, but he would have dropped 55 on Klay Thompson

[Jay81]

your true colors shine in the playoffs. Max player-klay thompson? i dont think so

[Jay81]

one trick ponies get exposed in playoffs

[FAH1223]

Bron is accounting for around 60% of the Cavs offense right now when you factor in assists, this is an all-time performance....

I wasn't old enough to see most of Jordan's titles and what Hakeem did with the Rockets but this is feeling like one of those type of performances.

[stevemcqueen1]

Klay Thompson is not overrated. Draymond Green is overrated. Truly great defensive player, but he is completely limited on the other end. Bogut is even worse. He's had a nightmare series.

Barnes killed them tonight, but he was good in game one. He's a young player, he's going to be up and down. He has some real two way ability though.

[FAH1223]

All this LeBron and MJ talk.

Why wasn't LeBron doing this in 2011 and 2014??????

[AFM]

All this LeBron and MJ talk.

Why wasn't LeBron doing this in 2011 and 2014??????

He wasn't forced to...
He was sharing the rock with 2 other HOFers

I think it actually plays to his advantage to not be a part of a "big 3".