Brewers @ Pirates Series

[BigDee]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Brewers/status/607996064491294721[/tweet]

[BigDee]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Brewers/status/608346614076424192[/tweet]

[ReasonablySober]

93 mph with a little sink on Jungmann's fastball. Hope the kid does well.

[ReasonablySober]

That was an impressive first inning. Wow.

[wichmae]

2nd inning not so much.

[wichmae]

You can see Taylor having viable stuff. All the more reason to gut the team and give him, Cravy, Thornberg, and other a legitimate shot. Position guys too. Melvin has got to see this.

[BigDee]

Nice day at the plate for Rogers.

[coolhandluke121]

It's not really surprising that decent young pitchers under team control eventually end up being better than good-but-not-great veterans like Suppan, Marcum, Wolf, Lohse, and Garza, and that's before you even factor price tag into their value. The Brewers' plan over the years has pretty much ensured that they would be stuck holding a $10m bag of flaming dog poop (or two) for every veteran pitcher they sign in free agency, acquire in a trade, or retain one year too long.

It's too early to officially declare that Jungmann, Nelson, Fiers, and Thornburg are good enough to build around, but they're sure as hell better than the guys I listed above were/are in their final* seasons with the Brewers.

*Hopefully, in Garza's case.

[BigDee]

How much longer does Perez get a shot.

[ReasonablySober]

Between Wagner, Jungmann and Cravy there are enough guys to at least throw out there every 5th day to see what you have. There is absolutely no reason Garza or Lohse to be on the roster. Doubt they get much of anything for them but anything is better than what they're worth going forward.

[coolhandluke121]

Between Wagner, Jungmann and Cravy there are enough guys to at least throw out there every 5th day to see what you have. There is absolutely no reason Garza or Lohse to be on the roster. Doubt they get much of anything for them but anything is better than what they're worth going forward.

My beef is that they could anticipate this sort of decline and make a trade when you can actually get something of value for once. It's okay to get burned a few times, but they basically get burned every single time.

[El Duderino]

Between Wagner, Jungmann and Cravy there are enough guys to at least throw out there every 5th day to see what you have. There is absolutely no reason Garza or Lohse to be on the roster. Doubt they get much of anything for them but anything is better than what they're worth going forward.

My beef is that they could anticipate this sort of decline and make a trade when you can actually get something of value for once. It's okay to get burned a few times, but they basically get burned every single time.

I question what kind of trade value Garza would have even had say prior to this season. He was available on the free agent market only a year prior, yet it was the Brewers who offered the most money. Plenty of other teams had the option of signing him and simply passed at the money he wanted, much less trading assets to get him along with taking on his contract.

Now Lohse clearly could have been moved in the offseason given he was in the last year of his contract, kind of like Gallardo was.

[blazza18]

Pleasantly surprised by Jungmann's outing. He looked really nervous early, his command wasn't very good. Nice to see him settle down. All for seeing more of him and those other two as well. Hopefully we can move Lohse and Garza.

[Kerb Hohl]

It's not really surprising that decent young pitchers under team control eventually end up being better than good-but-not-great veterans like Suppan, Marcum, Wolf, Lohse, and Garza, and that's before you even factor price tag into their value. The Brewers' plan over the years has pretty much ensured that they would be stuck holding a $10m bag of flaming dog poop (or two) for every veteran pitcher they sign in free agency, acquire in a trade, or retain one year too long.

It's too early to officially declare that Jungmann, Nelson, Fiers, and Thornburg are good enough to build around, but they're sure as hell better than the guys I listed above were/are in their final* seasons with the Brewers.

*Hopefully, in Garza's case.

Holy jump to conclusions, Batman. Not only was it just a 1-game sample for all of these guys, but there is a phenomenon where teams cannot hit a pitcher in their first few tries at him due to not having any scouting report on him.

This is not an endorsement for Garza or Lohse, but I do think that Garza will recover some value and if I was told I had to compete before the season, I'd probably have chosen Garza and Lohse over 2 of Cravy/Jungmann/Wagner/Thornburg.

[coolhandluke121]

Holy jump to conclusions, Batman. Not only was it just a 1-game sample for all of these guys, but there is a phenomenon where teams cannot hit a pitcher in their first few tries at him due to not having any scouting report on him.

Maybe I shouldn't have named all those guys, but it wasn't meant to be about the specific players so much as it was meant to be about the fact that you can probably call up just about anyone who projects to have any kind of future as a starter and expect them to be better than Wolf, Marcum, and Suppan were in their final seasons with the team and better than Lohse and Garza have been this year. It's almost impossible not to be.

I agree that Garza might get some value back, but I'm not counting on it anymore. Lohse is 36, and this might be it for him.

[coolhandluke121]

I question what kind of trade value Garza would have even had say prior to this season. He was available on the free agent market only a year prior, yet it was the Brewers who offered the most money.

I though that was partly about his elbow issue. Having a solid, healthy season last year probably made a big difference in how other gm's view him at this point, especially with just two years left on his deal.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, Garza was below market value as a signing because of the elbow risk. I don't know what his issue is this year - age, luck, injury - but he had good value.

If you believe in xFIP, both Lohse and Garza are pitching in the mid/high 4s, which they've done before in their careers. I don't think it helps their ERAs that it seems like every runner they leave on when they leave the game scores. Of course, I'm not looking at the numbers for that.

Again, I am not endorsing them as I wouldn't have signed Lohse and while Garza is a value, I likely don't sign him and I trade for younger pitching...but I bet their numbers will at least look respectable soon. Suppan was the worst signing ever and that was known the day it happened. Wolf and Marcum - eh - I also liked neither of those but they had a bit of value in their respective big seasons...but yes, then were time bombs.

If each season is taken singularly, I "like" these guys a little bit. We know going in that Mark is trying to win, so given a lot of the minors options, I'm happy to have Lohse or Garza or maybe even Wolf...but on principle I like zero of them. I want to do it a different way and if you take the multiple-year view, they should have traded these guys when their value was high or not signed them all all the while getting more young pitching in some way or taking more veteran boom/bust risks.

[BigDee]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ReviewngTheBrew/status/608715753295114241[/tweet]

[BigDee]

What's wrong with Braun?

[BigDee]

@Haudricourt: Word is that #Brewers Ryan Braun was removed from the game with dizziness.