All-Season Player of the Year Discussion thread

[SideshowBob]

Warriors Postseason (18 G)

+9.6 SRS, +4.9 Offense, -5.5 Defense

Cavaliers Postseason (17 G)

+11.0 SRS, +7.1 Offense, -5.1 Defense

[Texas Chuck]

I found it pretty interesting last night after all the talk here about Lebron not playing in the "correct" way, that Curry and the Warriors made their frantic comeback when Steph completely abandoned the Warrior's offense and just starting attacking in isolation and off screens.

I love great team offense as much as anyone, but it sure is nice to have one of these guys who can just go get it. Curry was brilliant down the stretch. But the Cavs seem to have answers for everything the Warriors try and do offensively. Really surprises me that Golden State can't ever punish Cleveland for the very hard doubles on Steph in the PNR. But they just blitz him hard play after play after play and GSW can't win the 4 on 3 power play.

I'm still sticking with Curry for POY, but I do feel some vindication for my insistence on including James in the conversation.

[cpower]

I found it pretty interesting last night after all the talk here about Lebron not playing in the "correct" way, that Curry and the Warriors made their frantic comeback when Steph completely abandoned the Warrior's offense and just starting attacking in isolation and off screens.

I love great team offense as much as anyone, but it sure is nice to have one of these guys who can just go get it. Curry was brilliant down the stretch. But the Cavs seem to have answers for everything the Warriors try and do offensively. Really surprises me that Golden State can't ever punish Cleveland for the very hard doubles on Steph in the PNR. But they just blitz him hard play after play after play and GSW can't win the 4 on 3 power play.

I'm still sticking with Curry for POY, but I do feel some vindication for my insistence on including James in the conversation.

Curry takes a lot of blame for not putting up Lebron's numbers. But I felt Kerr should have made better adjustment down the stretch, hard double screens for Stephen etc. His teammates cannot knock down open threes and it has been the game plan all season, I feel it's too late for Curry to make the adjustment now.

[bondom34]

I'm torn if CLE wins it. On one hand, I weight RS seriously and at this point I don't see a way I drop Curry, but on the flip side its tough to say well Lebron won the title but he's still not POY. I stand w/ Curry at 1, but Lebron has made a strong case for 2 and overtaken Harden w/ another 2 wins. Probably 1 more win does it. I'm staying Curry, then Lebron/Harden, Paul, and Westbrook.

I'm also glad to see the "playing the right way" thing kind of flip. To me this series has been a show of who wants it more, and to this point GSW just hasn't. It sounds cliche, but watching the games the Cavs are first to the floor for a loose ball, sprinting and diving out of bounds, and just winning the battle to loose balls. If you look at usage rates for the teams you'd think there's no way the Cavs are winning, but Lebron at a 44.0 usage is just dragging them through it. Last night wasn't pretty for a long stretch of the 4th when it seemed like they got too comfortable, but between Delly and Lebron that team is just gritty and fun to me. They're playing like I'd imagine Memphis w/ Lebron would in a way.

Edit: And who woulda thought Lebron outshoots Curry from 3?

[Ballerhogger]

I have Lebron as my top guy right now. He has all time scoring in the finals at 123 points . HOW !? 200 out 291 points he is responsible for . Clearly the best player on the court right now.. Admittedly I'm not lebron fan but its hard not to. game 2 he had triple double of 39 11 and 16. Scoring at high volume and rebounding and getting his teammates involved..

[Ballerhogger]

[quote="bondom34"]I'm torn if CLE wins it. On one hand, I weight RS seriously and at this point I don't see a way I drop Curry, but on the flip side its tough to say well Lebron won the title but he's still not POY. I stand w/ Curry at 1, but Lebron has made a strong case for 2 and overtaken Harden w/ another 2 wins. Probably 1 more win does it. I'm staying Curry, then Lebron/Harden, Paul, and Westbrook.

I'm also glad to see the "playing the right way" thing kind of flip. To me this series has been a show of who wants it more, and to this point GSW just hasn't. It sounds cliche, but watching the games the Cavs are first to the floor for a loose ball, sprinting and diving out of bounds, and just winning the battle to loose balls. If you look at usage rates for the teams you'd think there's no way the Cavs are winning, but Lebron at a 44.0 usage is just dragging them through it. Last night wasn't pretty for a long stretch of the 4th when it seemed like they got too comfortable, but between Delly and Lebron that team is just gritty and fun to me. They're playing like I'd imagine Memphis w/ Lebron would in a way.

Edit: And who woulda thought Lebron outshoots Curry from 3?[/quote]
lol even more reason to have him over curry atm.

[E-Balla]

I have Lebron as my top guy right now. He has all time scoring in the finals at 123 points . HOW !? 200 out 291 points he is responsible for . Clearly the best player on the court right now.. Admittedly I'm not lebron fan but its hard not to. game 2 he had triple double of 39 11 and 16. Scoring at high volume and rebounding and getting his teammates involved..

They're winning with their defense though. Yeah Lebron has the offense playing decently (-0.2) but they're winning this with their defense and yes Lebron has been great on that end but so has the rest of the Cavs players.

[Ballerhogger]

I have Lebron as my top guy right now. He has all time scoring in the finals at 123 points . HOW !? 200 out 291 points he is responsible for . Clearly the best player on the court right now.. Admittedly I'm not lebron fan but its hard not to. game 2 he had triple double of 39 11 and 16. Scoring at high volume and rebounding and getting his teammates involved..

They're winning with their defense though. Yeah Lebron has the offense playing decently (-0.2) but they're winning this with their defense and yes Lebron has been great on that end but so has the rest of the Cavs players.

defensively they have but jr smith almost game them game 2.

[JLei]

I gotta admit, I was wrong about this series. I really did not think it would be this competitive. I need to reconsider if James is the POY.

Was ready to say the same but didn't wanna jinx it. Seems this is becoming a yearly tradition.

He's clearly the best player in the world and I've been saying it all along. That's why he's always in the running.

There ain't nobody going to be more impactful/ better/ whatever in a game for my life/ Finals series for all the marbles then Lebron James right now.

Curry will almost certainly finish 1 on my list unless Bron pulls this off averaging 40/12/8 (and Curry will probably still finish 1). But I'm glad that the people who were DISRESPECTING Lebron in their best players list all year eating some crow. You line'em up for a game/ series/ playoffs for all the marbles there ain't no other 1st pick. He's the best player in the league but he won't be POY on my list because of Curry's body of work for the whole season and getting to the Finals himself (and hopefully start to play better).

[JordansBulls]

I gotta admit, I was wrong about this series. I really did not think it would be this competitive. I need to reconsider if James is the POY.

I think his regular season was too far behind. He is ahead a little in the playoffs but the gap was much greater in the regular season. For him to have a chance for the top spot Cleveland will need to finish the job and win it all.

[JordansBulls]

Anthony Davis averaged 32 ppg and 10 rpg and 3 bpg on 54% vs GS.
Harden averaged 28 ppg and 8 rpg and 6 apg on 47% vs GS

[Texas Chuck]

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiently, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiams, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly...

[bondom34]

Just to point out, Lebron is moving up everyone's ranks with a .494 TS, 49% Assist, 44 % USG, 8 % TO, and a plus 7 net rating.

Westbrook was at .536, 47, 14, and plus 8 for the season and isn't in most top 5s. I get the bump Lebron gets, but there's not really consistency.

[Texas Chuck]

Just to point out, Lebron is moving up everyone's ranks with a .494 TS, 49% Assist, 44 % USG, 8 % TO, and a plus 7 net rating.

Westbrook was at .536, 47, 14, and plus 8 for the season and isn't in most top 5s. I get the bump Lebron gets, but there's not really consistency.

Well I had Lebron higher than most to begin with which is part of it. And of course in the playoffs, imo at least, winning the game/series is so valuable that I can overlook some statistical flaws. He's not moving up for me based on those numbers you posted (or the ridiculous counting totals) but more for how he is leading his team to victory over and over.

I love Westbrook as you know. But I think it's not a stretch to say that Paul, Harden, and Curry all had better RS's than him. Most would add Davis to that list. Add in the fact that they all got to add to their resume in the PS--as did Lebron and Blake and I don't really have a problem personally having Lebron well ahead of Westbrook--along with the guys listed above. Obviously it's not really Westbrook's fault that the team didn't get in so I don't punish him, but I certainly will elevate guys if their play warrants it.

[bondom34]

Just to point out, Lebron is moving up everyone's ranks with a .494 TS, 49% Assist, 44 % USG, 8 % TO, and a plus 7 net rating.

Westbrook was at .536, 47, 14, and plus 8 for the season and isn't in most top 5s. I get the bump Lebron gets, but there's not really consistency.

Well I had Lebron higher than most to begin with which is part of it. And of course in the playoffs, imo at least, winning the game/series is so valuable that I can overlook some statistical flaws. He's not moving up for me based on those numbers you posted (or the ridiculous counting totals) but more for how he is leading his team to victory over and over.

I love Westbrook as you know. But I think it's not a stretch to say that Paul, Harden, and Curry all had better RS's than him. Most would add Davis to that list. Add in the fact that they all got to add to their resume in the PS--as did Lebron and Blake and I don't really have a problem personally having Lebron well ahead of Westbrook--along with the guys listed above. Obviously it's not really Westbrook's fault that the team didn't get in so I don't punish him, but I certainly will elevate guys if their play warrants it.

I get Curry, Harden, and Paul in the RS. I had him at 4/5 tied w/ Lebron after the RS, and don't see the big advantage Davis has there. Westbrook carried a team that was worse to a better record when the guys were playing (40-27 vs. 39-29). In the end he played for a more beat up team that just fell apart around him and had less help, so the team missed the 8 seed by a miracle buzzer beater, and that's knocking him out.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm with you on Davis. I don't have him as high as most. I think he is being elevated a little too quickly. Obviously an absurd talent with a ceiling out of this world, but I don't think he's quite got it all dialed just yet.

[SideshowBob]

Just to point out, Lebron is moving up everyone's ranks with a .494 TS, 49% Assist, 44 % USG, 8 % TO, and a plus 7 net rating.

Westbrook was at .536, 47, 14, and plus 8 for the season and isn't in most top 5s. I get the bump Lebron gets, but there's not really consistency.

Westbrook is absolutely getting consideration for me FWIW. Can't abandon the GOATbrook express because circumstance didn't allow him to make the postseason.

[HeartBreakKid]

Okay, I'm going to have to ask - what does "he's not as good as his numbers" actually mean?

Anthony Davis' numbers are really, really good, so....even if he's not as good as his numbers suggest that doesn't mean that he's not one of the best players in the league.

It seems like to me people are afraid to saying that a player like Davis might be the best player because of how young he is.

Comparing him with say Russell Westbrook, what makes Westbrook a better player? Is he a better defender? Better scorer? Better rebounder? The main criticism I've seen of Davis is that "he's not as good as his numbers suggest", I haven't actually seen him being directly compared to someone in a long time.

[MO12msu]

Okay, I'm going to have to ask - what does "he's not as good as his numbers" actually mean?

Anthony Davis' numbers are really, really good, so....even if he's not as good as his numbers suggest that doesn't mean that he's not one of the best players in the league.

It seems like to me people are afraid to saying that a player like Davis might be the best player because of how young he is.

Comparing him with say Russell Westbrook, what makes Westbrook a better player? Is he a better defender? Better scorer? Better rebounder? The main criticism I've seen of Davis is that "he's not as good as his numbers suggest", I haven't actually seen him being directly compared to someone in a long time.

From what I've seen, people are underrating Davis for what he isn't yet because they know what his potential is. I completely agree with you that it makes people downgrade what he already is: An efficient, low-usage, high volume scorer(which translated to the playoffs against the best D in the league) and a very disruptive, long, highly active defender. Sure, we all agree that he's not at his ceiling defensively, but that doesn't mean he's not a highly disruptive defensive player now. When you are that long, that athletic, that mobile, AND you try, you are going to be an above average defender. Yet I've seen too many people hold the fact that he isn't at his defensive peak AGAINST him, even though this version of Davis has clearly been a more impactful defender than the other contenders for the top 5 that are frequently mentioned in this thread.

[bondom34]

To me (and I didn't use the phrase) it indicates that a guy has parts of his game where he is either currently or will be lacking. Davis is fantastic and his numbers show it, but at this point he's not really a great playmaker, his defense still needs work, and I was just overall more impressed w/ what others did. It was to me more saying that Westbrook did more for OKC than he did for NOP. Not a slight on either, but the difference between the teams when the players were out hurt was bigger for the Thunder than Pels imo.