Indiana Pacers 2015-2016 Cap Space

[Smitty731]

Updated 3/15 - signed Ty Lawson.

Current Cap Space: None. $2,358,004.00 over
Maximum Cap Space: None. $2,358,004.00 over (if all options/guarantees were not picked up, all FAs renounced, no Draft Picks were to be signed this season, and all Exceptions were renounced)
Luxury Tax Space: $12,279,779.00
Tax Apron Space: $16,279,779.00
2016-2017 Maximum Cap Space: $33,139,581.00

How I got there:

Guaranteed Contracts (15): Lavoy Allen, Rakeem Christmas, Monta Ellis, Paul George, George Hill, Jordan Hill, Solomon Hill, Ty Lawson, Ian Mahinmi, C.J. Miles, Glenn Robinson III, Rodney Stuckey, Myles Turner, Shayne Whittington, Joseph Young

Partial/Non-Guaranteed Contracts (0): None

Free Agents (0): None

First Round Draft Pick Holds (0): None

Carried Money (3): $5,000,000.00 (Chase Budinger), $600,000.00 (Toney Douglas), $6,178.00 (Terran Petteway)

Unsigned Second Round Picks (2): Stanko Barac, Andrew Betts

Exceptions: Room Exception at $2,814,000.00. No Bi-Annual Exception due to being under the Cap. No TPEs.

[winter_mute_13]

Thanks Smitty, good work as always.

FWIW, Watson is not returning. Bird pretty much ruled him out in his season ending press con. We (fans) think Cope is out too. Bird and Vogel seem high on Whittington, so we expect to retain him on another minimum deal. Bird has said that Stuckey is a priority to re-sign, but since we don't have Bird rights, the most we can offer is the MLE. In an interview, Scola said he wanted to be back, and that the Pacers would like him back, but that there's a gap to fill (probably money). I guess it would depend on who else we acquire or sign. No clue about Lavoy but I would like him back.

Roy Hibbert has the other major decision to make. I went back and forth on this one a lot. Ultimately, I think he will opt out. He has a chance to sign a new big deal. Big men who can play always get paid. Or he could do a two year 1+1 deal, where the second year is a player option. That would allow him to pick his next team and still have the flexibility next summer when the Cap jumps. The Pacers seem to have floated the idea that they don’t want him back. I’m not sure if this is posturing by the Front Office, or if it is legit. I can’t imagine they want to just let him walk, so I think they will at least retain their rights on him and see how his market develops.

Most of us fans think he will opt in. Hypothetically, if Hibbert does opt out, the Pacers will open up a significant amount of cap space (somewhere between $10-15m - heck you probably know better than I do) - this flexibilty to sign a replacement FA might be worth more to the Pacers than his potential trade market. So I don't think the Pacers are thinking of it as letting him walk for nothing.

Bird has suggested that there will be a style change next year ("play smaller and faster") that would result in a reduced role for Hibbert. Of course, if Bird fails to make any roster moves, it seems doubtful that we can really change our style.

And as to your last question, I think we're moving towards a rebuild. Maybe not right away, as we have limited options this year, but we should have a bunch of cap space in 2016.

[Wizop]

I don't agree that we've floated the idea that we don't want Hibbert back. We've said we want to play faster but he played an average of 25 minutes a game last year and I don't see those minutes being threatened. The remaining 23 minutes are plenty for small ball. I see Mahinmi as the trade chip, not Roy.

Copeland and Watson are gone per the end of season press conferences. Sloan was a decent third point guard and you need one of those but most assume he's gone. Stuckey is a priority signing and he can play some point but he's better at the two. He could be the third one though particularly if we sign a free agent backup one. Good chance though that we draft a one and were I GM I'd bring Sloan back if we have a rookie one to take pressure off the rookie to be ready early.

Bottom line is I think we're a playoff team if West and Hibbert and Stuckey come back and everyone stays reasonably healthy regardless of PG's level of play. After years of proposed trades to replace GHill being posted here, last year's record with him playing was well over 500 even without PG, and our record without him was well under 500.

[Scoot McGroot]

I assume Roy would opt in and look to hit free agency next year. Though, if he could get close to $15m this year in a new deal, he should, with a 1+1 opt, ideally.

For the restricted guys, I would write off Copeland. Good player, and productive, but he's just a bad fit with Vogel's style that it's unlikely he's back. Well liked, and can produce offensively, but Vogel never felt comfortable using Cope as a 4, and now he's talking about playing PG13 there. I think the writing's on the wall. As for Whittington? We'd probably like to keep him as a 15th guy, though as a courtesy, we'll probably not extend the QO, so that if he gets a better offer elsewhere, he can take it for his future.

For Paul George? He was just cleared 100% and got to play "full go" in the Pacers celebrity softball game, with Vogel pitching to him. The ankle is fine now, and the calf took 4-5 weeks to heal. He's full go for training camp, barring any other new injuries.

Scola and Allen will be interesting to see. I assume that both should garner offers on the market, though for some reason, Allen didn't last year and we got him for the minimum. We'd probably like to keep Scola as well. He's been very effective. However, Bird has talked specifically throughout the season and offseason about wanting to "get younger", and it appeared he was talking specifically about the PF/C spots (though maybe the SG spot, too, but he just spent 4 years on CJ Miles, so hard to tell). If we draft a 4, I see only one of Scola or Lavoy coming back. If we don't, maybe both are back. I would assume at least one will be back.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't agree that we've floated the idea that we don't want Hibbert back. We've said we want to play faster but he played an average of 25 minutes a game last year and I don't see those minutes being threatened.

In the press conference that has launched all the Hibbert trades here, Bird did specifically say that Hibbert would play "less" next year. Didn't say he'd be benched, but that he would lose minutes. I just assumed he'd drop from his 25-ish to 18-22-ish.

[Laimbeer]

Can't help but think how much better off the Pacers would be if they had tanked after George's injury. Hibbert, West, and Hill all had an additional year on their deals and could have drawn picks back. George + top tier pick 2015 + other picks sounds better than #11 and players who are basically rentals now.

[bondom34]

Can't help but think how much better off the Pacers would be if they had tanked after George's injury. Hibbert, West, and Hill all had an additional year on their deals and could have drawn picks back. George + top tier pick 2015 + other picks sounds better than #11 and players who are basically rentals now.

They still weren't bad enough to. They ended up with Hibbert playing poorly, West missing time, and Solo Hill as the team minutes leader. At worst they'd have been about as bad as maybe Charlotte, so that gets them up 2-3 spots.

[Laimbeer]

Can't help but think how much better off the Pacers would be if they had tanked after George's injury. Hibbert, West, and Hill all had an additional year on their deals and could have drawn picks back. George + top tier pick 2015 + other picks sounds better than #11 and players who are basically rentals now.

They still weren't bad enough to. They ended up with Hibbert playing poorly, West missing time, and Solo Hill as the team minutes leader. At worst they'd have been about as bad as maybe Charlotte, so that gets them up 2-3 spots.

True, I suppose it depends how thorough of a house cleaning they did. It could have gone beyond the three I mentioned. Just a thought.

[Scoot McGroot]

Can't help but think how much better off the Pacers would be if they had tanked after George's injury. Hibbert, West, and Hill all had an additional year on their deals and could have drawn picks back. George + top tier pick 2015 + other picks sounds better than #11 and players who are basically rentals now.

It likely would have required dealing all of Hibbert, West, and Hill, and also having Vogel and Bird resign. After that, and the requisite 4 year rebuild, Paul George would be expiring, and you have to deal him then, too. All while trying to convince fans to buy tickets, when there are other games in town (Colts, and even the minor league baseball team, plays downtown, one of top selling minor league teams in the country in one of the best ballparks in America). Heck, Indy was halfway to Tampa Bay and Cleveland in attendance.


Or, we could say that George Hill and CJ Miles are great building blocks for the next 3 years. Add in the #11, and massive cap space, and we have a chance to compete. We still almost made the playoffs last year. If George Hill didn't miss the beginning of the year, this team would have won over 45 games, maybe close to 50 in the East. He played in 43 games. We were 26-17 in those games.

And no matter what may be the popular opinion, Bird and Vogel, and the Indy franchise just aren't going to willingly lose for long stretches on purpose. Bird had to after Artest and that rebuild, and it nearly killed him. The Pacers are just going to try every year. It's who they are. And we're ok with that. There are worse things.

[bondom34]

And for the love of criminy people, George Hill is way underrated.

[Wizop]

plus, I think it stinks that the Knicks sent Shumpert and Smith to Cleveland who are now key in the playoffs. serves 'em right to drop two spots in the lottery.

and losing promotes losing. it's not something you want to get used to.

[Scoot McGroot]

plus, I think it stinks that the Knicks sent Shumpert and Smith to Cleveland who are now key in the playoffs. serves 'em right to drop two spots in the lottery.

and losing promotes losing. it's not something you want to get used to.

Meh, it was fair value. They got Shumpert, who was devalued in trade due to knee and shoulder injuries, for taking on JR Smith, who was valued poorly on the trade market at the time as well due to his shot-taking tendencies and knucklehead-edness. It was fair value. The fact that JR is able to keep straight in Cleveland playing with Lebron made it worth doing.

[Austincys21]

I say blow the team up...

Trade George Hill, David West, and Roy Hibbert

Build around Paul George and try and snag a guy like Danny Green.

[Scoot McGroot]

I say blow the team up...

Trade George Hill, David West, and Roy Hibbert

Build around Paul George and try and snag a guy like Danny Green.

Huh? That makes....no sense. Trade solid vets to add a solid vet? I get a trade of Hibbert for value. And if West wanted a trade and it made sense for us, sure (though with his age and impending retirement, I don't expect great offers). But Hill? He's only owed $8m per this year and next, and he's a REALLY good overall player at the PG position. No, not a pure PG, but he's definitely a keeper. And Green is only 1 year younger than Hill. So....again, why?

[Austincys21]

I say blow the team up...

Trade George Hill, David West, and Roy Hibbert

Build around Paul George and try and snag a guy like Danny Green.

Huh? That makes....no sense. Trade solid vets to add a solid vet? I get a trade of Hibbert for value. And if West wanted a trade and it made sense for us, sure (though with his age and impending retirement, I don't expect great offers). But Hill? He's only owed $8m per this year and next, and he's a REALLY good overall player at the PG position. No, not a pure PG, but he's definitely a keeper. And Green is only 1 year younger than Hill. So....again, why?

We'll see what you can get for an older West. I see Hill more as a 6th man. I say Danny Green because he's the best shooter in FA and they can use a solid SG.


I don't see Hill, George, West, and Hibbert working anymore ... So why not blow it up? I'd try and get younger guys to build around

[Smitty731]

I say blow the team up...

Trade George Hill, David West, and Roy Hibbert

Build around Paul George and try and snag a guy like Danny Green.

Huh? That makes....no sense. Trade solid vets to add a solid vet? I get a trade of Hibbert for value. And if West wanted a trade and it made sense for us, sure (though with his age and impending retirement, I don't expect great offers). But Hill? He's only owed $8m per this year and next, and he's a REALLY good overall player at the PG position. No, not a pure PG, but he's definitely a keeper. And Green is only 1 year younger than Hill. So....again, why?

We'll see what you can get for an older West. I see Hill more as a 6th man. I say Danny Green because he's the best shooter in FA and they can use a solid SG.


I don't see Hill, George, West, and Hibbert working anymore ... So why not blow it up? I'd try and get younger guys to build around

Why wouldn't it work? It is a better all around version of what Cleveland is doing right now. Hill is better than Dellavedova (unless you are letting two games sway you), West and Hibbert are better than Thompson and Mozgov. George isn't as good as James, but it isn't as far off as some think if George is back to his old self.

It is also similar to what Memphis does. Indiana plays D and wins ugly and they are ripped for it. Cleveland does it and everyone says how tough they are. Makes no sense to me.

[Boneman2]

Can't help but think how much better off the Pacers would be if they had tanked after George's injury. Hibbert, West, and Hill all had an additional year on their deals and could have drawn picks back. George + top tier pick 2015 + other picks sounds better than #11 and players who are basically rentals now.

I was firmly behind this approach, which was working until West and Hill returned from injury. Beyond this point the Pacers were a pretty good team, minus PG & Lance.

Honestly, with a fully conditioned PG, all the Pacers really need to get back into contention is a more consistent low-post threat.

[Scoot McGroot]

I say blow the team up...

Trade George Hill, David West, and Roy Hibbert

Build around Paul George and try and snag a guy like Danny Green.

Huh? That makes....no sense. Trade solid vets to add a solid vet? I get a trade of Hibbert for value. And if West wanted a trade and it made sense for us, sure (though with his age and impending retirement, I don't expect great offers). But Hill? He's only owed $8m per this year and next, and he's a REALLY good overall player at the PG position. No, not a pure PG, but he's definitely a keeper. And Green is only 1 year younger than Hill. So....again, why?

We'll see what you can get for an older West. I see Hill more as a 6th man. I say Danny Green because he's the best shooter in FA and they can use a solid SG.

Wait....Hill is the PG. Why couldn't you play him next to a Danny Green, theoretically? We also have CJ Miles, who is pretty solid at SG, too. No Danny Green, but likely at 25-40% of the cost (CJ only makes about $4m a year).

Again. Not sure what you're angle is. Trade the vets to sign other vets? Our vets that were major pieces to an ECF team that was a George Hill injury away from playing for a championship?

[basketballwacko2]

I assume Roy would opt in and look to hit free agency next year. Though, if he could get close to $15m this year in a new deal, he should, with a 1+1 opt, ideally.

For the restricted guys, I would write off Copeland. Good player, and productive, but he's just a bad fit with Vogel's style that it's unlikely he's back. Well liked, and can produce offensively, but Vogel never felt comfortable using Cope as a 4, and now he's talking about playing PG13 there. I think the writing's on the wall. As for Whittington? We'd probably like to keep him as a 15th guy, though as a courtesy, we'll probably not extend the QO, so that if he gets a better offer elsewhere, he can take it for his future.

For Paul George? He was just cleared 100% and got to play "full go" in the Pacers celebrity softball game, with Vogel pitching to him. The ankle is fine now, and the calf took 4-5 weeks to heal. He's full go for training camp, barring any other new injuries.

Scola and Allen will be interesting to see. I assume that both should garner offers on the market, though for some reason, Allen didn't last year and we got him for the minimum. We'd probably like to keep Scola as well. He's been very effective. However, Bird has talked specifically throughout the season and offseason about wanting to "get younger", and it appeared he was talking specifically about the PF/C spots (though maybe the SG spot, too, but he just spent 4 years on CJ Miles, so hard to tell). If we draft a 4, I see only one of Scola or Lavoy coming back. If we don't, maybe both are back. I would assume at least one will be back.

I like Scola but if I can only have one of them I'm gonna go with Allen, really want Stuckey back, I think we draft big at 11, and we'll look for a small signing for the MLE or BAE if we have them.

[Scoot McGroot]

I like Scola but if I can only have one of them I'm gonna go with Allen, really want Stuckey back, I think we draft big at 11, and we'll look for a small signing for the MLE or BAE if we have them.

We'll have the MLE and BAE, but we'll have to use one of them to re-sign Stuckey since we have don't have Bird Rights on him.