Kanter's Free Agency

[bondom34]

His efficiency is still trash and you're the only one seeing these improvements, so whatever. He's a terrible player and I can't think of a worse rotation guy on any contender.

Well, im not the only one, there just seems to be three or four people here who are against him for some reason. The majority of people are rather sane on the topic. And if you're not seeing the improvements, then you're either blind or ignoring it as its literally in black and white in front of you.

And to answer your last part, Jeremy Lamb. But i understand, you have a completely different set of standards and rules for him.

Actually you are the only one I see who likes him. Heck everyone else wants Lamb to get a shot and him gone. And not just here, on every site I've seen.

[Balkman32]

His efficiency is still trash and you're the only one seeing these improvements, so whatever. He's a terrible player and I can't think of a worse rotation guy on any contender.

Kanter?

[bondom34]

His efficiency is still trash and you're the only one seeing these improvements, so whatever. He's a terrible player and I can't think of a worse rotation guy on any contender.

Kanter?

Dion

[Soonerule]

:clap:

3 minutes? you reviewed the videos and read the articles in 3 minutes? Yeah, ok.

[Bravenewworld]

His efficiency is still trash and you're the only one seeing these improvements, so whatever. He's a terrible player and I can't think of a worse rotation guy on any contender.

Well, im not the only one, there just seems to be three or four people here who are against him for some reason. The majority of people are rather sane on the topic. And if you're not seeing the improvements, then you're either blind or ignoring it as its literally in black and white in front of you.

And to answer your last part, Jeremy Lamb. But i understand, you have a completely different set of standards and rules for him.

Actually you are the only one I see who likes him. Heck everyone else wants Lamb to get a shot and him gone. And not just here, on every site I've seen.

Thats funny because the only people i heard this from is you and the other couple people here who cant stand him for some reason.
And with Lamb, by "everyone" you once again mean this same small group of people on this message board. I'd say most people are done with this guy and i have never heard one professional analyst who thinks this guy should be anything more than completely out of the league.

BTW, great job of highlighting the hypocrisy and moving goal posts with Lamb.
A guy who has shown very limited skill sets, as little improvement as anyone can show, and has been on the team for years getting plenty of minutes in those years. And apparently, this is not enough. He needs even more of an opportunity. But the guy with a good enough skill set to show he can average 16 in less than full time minutes, has shown actual improvements and who clearly holds a much higher value... nope... 40 games is enough!
For Lamb, 4 years is not enough. We need to add a 5th year on to that... i suspect a sixth and maybe seventh will be needed after we see him fall flat on his face in the fifth year as well.. thats just my speculation but perfectly in line with whats being suggested.
For Waiters, 41 games, not even a full season, is 10 games too many. Despite the fact that we have seen his skill set contribute with numbers Lamb cannot average in his dreams, its too many. Shoulda been gone after 30 games, because 40 is too many for him, 4 years is not enough for Lamb.... yah, thats completely rational, makes sense. But please, keep telling me how im the one who is in the wrong here.

I didnt think you'd be so blatant with the double standards, but whatever. As long as you recognize the moving goal posts and different set of standards.

[Balkman32]

His efficiency is still trash and you're the only one seeing these improvements, so whatever. He's a terrible player and I can't think of a worse rotation guy on any contender.

Kanter?

Dion

yeah I feel like we might need to revamp the SG position.

[bondom34]

Well, im not the only one, there just seems to be three or four people here who are against him for some reason. The majority of people are rather sane on the topic. And if you're not seeing the improvements, then you're either blind or ignoring it as its literally in black and white in front of you.

And to answer your last part, Jeremy Lamb. But i understand, you have a completely different set of standards and rules for him.

Actually you are the only one I see who likes him. Heck everyone else wants Lamb to get a shot and him gone. And not just here, on every site I've seen.

Thats funny because the only people i heard this from is you and the other couple people here who cant stand him for some reason.
And with Lamb, by "everyone" you once again mean this same small group of people on this message board. I'd say most people are done with this guy and i have never heard one professional analyst who thinks this guy should be anything more than completely out of the league.

BTW, great job of highlighting the hypocrisy and moving goal posts with Lamb.
A guy who has shown very limited skill sets, as little improvement as anyone can show, and has been on the team for years getting plenty of minutes in those years. And apparently, this is not enough. He needs even more of an opportunity. But the guy with a good enough skill set to show he can average 16 in less than full time minutes, has shown actual improvements and who clearly holds a much higher value... nope... 40 games is enough!
For Lamb, 4 years is not enough. We need to add a 5th year on to that... i suspect a sixth and maybe seventh will be needed after we see him fall flat on his face in the fifth year as well.. thats just my speculation but perfectly in line with whats being suggested.
For Waiters, 41 games, not even a full season, is 10 games too many. Despite the fact that we have seen his skill set contribute with numbers Lamb cannot average in his dreams, its too many. Shoulda been gone after 30 games, because 40 is too many for him, 4 years is not enough for Lamb.... yah, thats completely rational, makes sense. But please, keep telling me how im the one who is in the wrong here.

I didnt think you'd be so blatant with the double standards, but whatever. As long as you recognize the moving goal posts and different set of standards.

Dude, you're the one doig what you are saying. We all hold them both to the same standard and Lamb has been better than Dion, then you whip out bad excuses and ramble about him on a new team when he played the same everywhere. I post here, everyone can't stand him. Thunderfans, everyone can't stand him, WTLC, everyone can't stand him. He has a fan club of one, and its you. Other team's fans even think he's awful. He's just not good at basketball, he's drafted the same year as Beal and Lamb and is worse at everything than both, and you're so blind to it its hilarious, you continually dismiss any other view with "you haven't played/watched" and won't even use any real info to back up a point. You are the vast minority of Dion supporters, and I have no clue why w/ the double standard you hold for Lamb, who hasn't been given half the chance Dion has. He's a terrible terrible player, and you won't admit it.

[bondom34]

:clap:

3 minutes? you reviewed the videos and read the articles in 3 minutes? Yeah, ok.

So you've met, this is how debates tend to go...

[idajazz]

Here is the thing those of you that think Kanter will become a decent defender and be a positive for your team are missing.

Kanter was given every opportunity to thrive in Utah, He had the full backing of the coaching staff, the rest of the team, the fans, and the front office. He just never put it together. He wanted to be treated like a superstar even though he couldn't/wouldn't play like one.
Then along came Rudy............ He freaking stole the little bit of spot light that Kanter had, and became a huge fan favorite literally over night. It is all down hill from there. Kanter came off as jealous, and bitter, and the things he said after the trade were like a pissy x girlfriend who got dumped.

The thing that he has to understand is that he had the same opportunity as Rudy, he just didn't have the right attitude/mentality as Rudy and he blew it. I believe that it was clear to management that he wouldn't be able to be professional and was becoming a locker room cancer so they made the move.

Kanter has the ability to be pretty dang good, he just lacks the brains. He always came off as the stereotypical pampered jock who expects the world to be handed to him on a platter. If he can turn the attitude around you will have a pretty good player. My opinion is that once the honeymoon is over.... well good luck.

He was 18-19 when he was drafted and him and Favors do the same thing they can score w/ their back to the basked and can't protect the rim. I think Utah set him up to fail.

Favors can't protect the rim?? Really That right there shows where your talking from.

[idajazz]

Here is the thing those of you that think Kanter will become a decent defender and be a positive for your team are missing.

Kanter was given every opportunity to thrive in Utah, He had the full backing of the coaching staff, the rest of the team, the fans, and the front office. He just never put it together. He wanted to be treated like a superstar even though he couldn't/wouldn't play like one.

This is a common theme with Jazz fans.
But if you're not a Jazz(hands) fan, all you've seen is a franchise that has made really bad choices over the past five or six years.
A team that has traded or allowed to sign elsewhere, almost a full roster of star players who would easily contend in the East or the West.
Then of course dismissing a hall of fame coach in exchange for a poor assistant coach and then a terrible college coach.

If this franchise had a clue what they were doing or had a staff giving the team (not just him) every opportunity to thrive, then they could have figured out the needed (for contention) 3 big man rotation and brought in two defensive depth big men to ensure it works.

Name all these star players that were let go?
All I've seen are older guys who were let go because younger guys were coming up that are better. The only player I hated to see go was Millsap,
Dismiss a hall of fame coach? Umm what planet were you on? Jerry flat out Quit.
Poor assistant coach.........yup, didn't like Corbin. but he had been an outstanding assistant, and a part of the Jazz family. Would have been great if he could have handled being a head coach, can't really fault the front office for giving him a chance.
Terrible college coach? Really? I think Snyder has been great, and was a great hire.
Utah is loaded with young talent, they are poised to break out and be a pretty damn good team, They will make the playoffs next year. I will go one further and say they will win the division.

[spearsy23]

Here is the thing those of you that think Kanter will become a decent defender and be a positive for your team are missing.

Kanter was given every opportunity to thrive in Utah, He had the full backing of the coaching staff, the rest of the team, the fans, and the front office. He just never put it together. He wanted to be treated like a superstar even though he couldn't/wouldn't play like one.

This is a common theme with Jazz fans.
But if you're not a Jazz(hands) fan, all you've seen is a franchise that has made really bad choices over the past five or six years.
A team that has traded or allowed to sign elsewhere, almost a full roster of star players who would easily contend in the East or the West.
Then of course dismissing a hall of fame coach in exchange for a poor assistant coach and then a terrible college coach.

If this franchise had a clue what they were doing or had a staff giving the team (not just him) every opportunity to thrive, then they could have figured out the needed (for contention) 3 big man rotation and brought in two defensive depth big men to ensure it works.

Name all these star players that were let go?
All I've seen are older guys who were let go because younger guys were coming up that are better. The only player I hated to see go was Millsap,
Dismiss a hall of fame coach? Umm what planet were you on? Jerry flat out Quit.
Poor assistant coach.........yup, didn't like Corbin. but he had been an outstanding assistant, and a part of the Jazz family. Would have been great if he could have handled being a head coach, can't really fault the front office for giving him a chance.
Terrible college coach? Really? I think Snyder has been great, and was a great hire.
Utah is loaded with young talent, they are poised to break out and be a pretty damn good team, They will make the playoffs next year. I will go one further and say they will win the division.

Just as an FYI, 99% of us agree with you, don't think this represents the prevailing view.

[spearsy23]

Lol....I love our fanbase mentality

When Perk was here...."he isn't good enough offensively...get rid of him".

Now that Kanter is here...".he isn't good enough..defensively...get rid of him".

I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Kanter. Most of us have voted for giving him a contract anywhere from 13mil-max

[Balkman32]

Lol....I love our fanbase mentality

When Perk was here...."he isn't good enough offensively...get rid of him".

Now that Kanter is here...".he isn't good enough..defensively...get rid of him".

I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Kanter. Most of us have voted for giving him a contract anywhere from 13mil-max

If he gets more than 13 million I think he will end up getting traded. But, the other side is loosing him for nothing.

[stitches]

It's only normal for a young player to improve especially in the areas where there is a lot of room for improvement. Enes' problem has never been on-man or post defense. He's OK there. His problem is when he has to defend in space and/or make quick decisions(pick and rolls, rotations). This is what kills the defense every time. If I were an opposing coach I'd put him in the pnr every single possession until he's subbed out. Ibaka probably can clean up some of his mess at the rim, but the problem is that we had 2 great rim protectors and they weren't enough... at some point we got to about average defense with Kanter on the floor, but it takes Herculean effort from everybody else to cover for Kanter's lack of defensive awareness/skill. Our defense was improving every month in the season, but most of it was despite Enes, not because of any serious improvements he made and when he was completely removed our D jumped to best in the league by a huge margin.

His attitude has always been that he would favor the offense and not the defense, someone here posted those interviews here. Another question you need to ask yourselves is if he wanted out of Utah because he was not getting enough minutes(28mpg) and his playing time was inconsistent and he was about to lose his starting spot to Gobert, what would happen when your whole front court is healthy and his playing time drops to 20-25 minutes or even less? What would happen when you put him on the bench?

Good luck with him, whatever your FO decides to do...

(edit: btw, he refused to sign a 4x8M extension with Utah, so I doubt he would be willing to sign similar one with you)

[bondom34]

Was a speculative article in Chicago, and the only deal I'd like (kinda) is a sign and trade maybe for Noah with some incentive. But only if Kanter's demanding crazy money. Over 13 and its a no for me but a trade.

[Pillendreher]

I think both Waiters and Kanter can be players with an positive impact. Waiters has shown his ability to get past his man and get defenses to collapse; after the session with Brooks he has show an significant improvement (16/3/2 with an acceptable FG%). If he can keep that up and acts smart on the floor, he for sure can be an asset. I'd like his as a somewhat 6th man for 20-25 mpg. Just to mix things up and bring some scoring off the bench.

Kanter just needs to get his defense up to a normal level. If he achieves that, he can become one of the best centers in league.

[spearsy23]

I think both Waiters and Kanter can be players with an positive impact. Waiters has shown his ability to get past his man and get defenses to collapse; after the session with Brooks he has show an significant improvement (16/3/2 with an acceptable FG%). If he can keep that up and acts smart on the floor, he for sure can be an asset. I'd like his as a somewhat 6th man for 20-25 mpg. Just to mix things up and bring some scoring off the bench.
.

During that time his ts% was still ~50, he still couldn't pass and he still was a slightly below average defender. If he plays exactly like that he can be a rotation piece, filling in for the 13 minutes or so that KD is off the floor. Even then, just give those minutes to Lamb or the Rookie and we'll be better off.

[Pillendreher]

Why do you think he can't pass? I think of him as a decent passer, but maybe my memory is faulty...

[Zagor]

It's only normal for a young player to improve especially in the areas where there is a lot of room for improvement. Enes' problem has never been on-man or post defense. He's OK there. His problem is when he has to defend in space and/or make quick decisions(pick and rolls, rotations). This is what kills the defense every time. If I were an opposing coach I'd put him in the pnr every single possession until he's subbed out. Ibaka probably can clean up some of his mess at the rim, but the problem is that we had 2 great rim protectors and they weren't enough... at some point we got to about average defense with Kanter on the floor, but it takes Herculean effort from everybody else to cover for Kanter's lack of defensive awareness/skill. Our defense was improving every month in the season, but most of it was despite Enes, not because of any serious improvements he made and when he was completely removed our D jumped to best in the league by a huge margin.

I'm afraid this will be exactly same problem Thunder will have.
It is very hard to "hide" center who is that bad in defense.
Collison mentioned his problems with defense when he was young, but I'm afraid Kanter is on historic bad level with Bargnani. I mean, 6'11 guy who has only couple blocks more in last season then Andre Roberson. He is too soft, too passive.
I hope that someone in the coaching stuff will press him hard.

If he continue to be very bad,then bring him from the bench. Lower his minutes.
12-13 million would be the max I offer him.

[Bravenewworld]

Dude, you're the one doig what you are saying. We all hold them both to the same standard and Lamb has been better than Dion, then you whip out bad excuses and ramble about him on a new team when he played the same everywhere. I post here, everyone can't stand him. Thunderfans, everyone can't stand him, WTLC, everyone can't stand him. He has a fan club of one, and its you. Other team's fans even think he's awful. He's just not good at basketball, he's drafted the same year as Beal and Lamb and is worse at everything than both, and you're so blind to it its hilarious, you continually dismiss any other view with "you haven't played/watched" and won't even use any real info to back up a point. You are the vast minority of Dion supporters, and I have no clue why w/ the double standard you hold for Lamb, who hasn't been given half the chance Dion has. He's a terrible terrible player, and you won't admit it.

Do you know what "timescale" is?
Do you honestly want to continue pretending as if you don't grasp the difference between 40 games and 4 years. Do you honestly want to continue with that stupidity?
Do you honestly want to pretend that me being willing to dismiss Lamb after FOUR YEARS is entirely different from Waiters after 40 GAMES?
How the holy **** can you sit here and say Lamb has not had half the chance Dion has? WE GAVE HIM FOUR **** YEARS. WE FORCED MINUTES ON HIM AND POSITIONS ON HIM OVER AND OVER AND OVER. HE FAILED EVERY SINGLE TIME. But duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh four years and 40 games duuuhhhhhhhhhh same amount of time.

Stop pulling bull out of your ass.... talk about projection.... goddamn.

Lamb is as garbage as you get. He wont be in the NBA after this contract is up, i think we all know that. Even if he is traded, no one will get something out of him that we could not. We've given him chance after chance and he fails every single time.
Waiters, at the very least has shown us he can produce as a role playing starter should but his game needs tweaking. And no matter if you like him or not, he will still be in the league after his rookie contract, because hes not complete and utter garbage. There are positives to gain from his development.
But apparently this is completely nonexistent. Even when its shoved into your eye sockets in black and white, you're completely blind to it.