State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[frumble]

Re U16s, game two vs. Mexico is on now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYfPz4R ... e=youtu.be

Canada up big early.


Re U19s, and Motague Gill-Caesar's absence, Hoops Hype says he had back spasms and decided to pull out rather than risk injury.

Re senior team for Americas, assuming availability, I think the bigs are pretty much set:
Olynyk and TT as givens;
Two of Nicholson, Powell, and Bennett; and
One of Sacre and Anthony as backup C (i think everyone here would prefer Sacre, but I am not completely discounting possibility that Anthony gets taken).

I would be very, very surprised if Kendall or Lyles were on the team.

In my mind the biggest mystery is who the back-up 3 is. Assuming no K. Joseph (a reasonable assumption), I would rather have Dyshawn Pierre than Shepherd, but I figure they will go with Shepherd.

Re 2s, I suspect English will opt out, so we will have Stauskas, Rautins, and Heslip.

At PG, Joseph and Anderson.

Re PanAms, I think mojo nailed it.

[Dr Comeback]

Simi Shi-ttu and Rowan Barret Jr. getting alot of the hype but Danilo Djuricic has been the most impressive, a stretch 4 with way more interior toughness than you would expect.

[mojo13]

Commentary in English would be nice! Man, my Spanish sucks.
Only way Mexico keeps this close is by jacking up threes.

thanks for the link!

[aminiaturebuddha]

Simi Shi-ttu and Rowan Barret Jr. getting alot of the hype but Danilo Djuricic has been the most impressive, a stretch 4 with way more interior toughness than you would expect.

True, although we have to keep in mind that he's a year older than those guys (or, at least, 9 months older than Simi and about 16 months older than Barrett). A lot of the hype also has to do with with what they could become. Will Djuricic keep developing physically to become a legit PF at the highest level? That's the question. But yes, he's looked quite good.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Commentary in English would be nice! Man, my Spanish sucks.

They're pretty terrible as commentators actually. Most of the time they're just rambling on about random things and not mentioning plays that happen in the game. They'll let 4 or 5 plays go by at a time without even saying the names of the players who are scoring or passing. Very frustrating with my horrible internet connection where I can't read the numbers or names on the jerseys.

[Dr Comeback]

Simi Shi-ttu and Rowan Barret Jr. getting alot of the hype but Danilo Djuricic has been the most impressive, a stretch 4 with way more interior toughness than you would expect.

True, although we have to keep in mind that he's a year older than those guys (or, at least, 9 months older than Simi and about 16 months older than Barrett). A lot of the hype also has to do with with what they could become. Will Djuricic keep developing physically to become a legit PF at the highest level? That's the question. But yes, he's looked quite good.

Good point didn't realize the gap in ages.

If Danillo doesn't grow to much more he still looks like a high level mid major guy, if he can get to 6-9-6-10, and pick up a post game then he could be a high major guy with a chance at the NBA. but it's early to be making these type of evaluations I guess.

I obviously see the potential with Barrett and Simi, both have great bodies. Though Simi seems to be just a solid athlete not an elite one but really physically mature.

RJ Barrent can go long stretches without impacting the game and has high dribble, and Simi's constantly trying to force spectacular paces.

They obviously have the most potential, it's going to be fun to watch them develop.


also this Salvador MARTINEZ...kid is dotting eyes out here, is he going to college?

[aminiaturebuddha]

also this Salvador MARTINEZ...kid is dotting eyes out here, is he going to college?

This is the first time I've heard of Martinez, but yeah, the kid is a sharpshooter. He's killing it out there. I'd be very curious as well to hear what his plans are.

[aminiaturebuddha]

I obviously see the potential with Barrett and Simi, both have great bodies. Though Simi seems to be just a solid athlete not an elite one but really physically mature.

RJ Barrent can go long stretches without impacting the game and has high dribble, and Simi's constantly trying to force spectacular paces.

With Simi I agree he's extremely sloppy out there, although I like the effort. For a high level player who's that young, I'd much rather see him forcing bad passes than trying to do it all himself and not use his teammates. He'll learn in time which are good passes and which are bad ones. For now, the fact that he's trying to spread it around is a good sign to me.

[TheFutureMM]

I'm pretty surprised guys keep sleeping on Andrew Nicholson. Guy has been a staple on the men's team the last two years and I almost guarantee he will have a spot on the team if he wants it.

He was the focal point of our offense back in 2013 as a 24 year old and despite his lackluster career on the Magic I can only imagine he has become a better basketball player these last two years.

If it is between him and Bennett I don't think twice about whose spot it is.

[mojo13]

I'm pretty surprised guys keep sleeping on Andrew Nicholson. Guy has been a staple on the men's team the last two years and I almost guarantee he will have a spot on the team if he wants it.

He was the focal point of our offense back in 2013 as a 24 year old and despite his lackluster career on the Magic I can only imagine he has become a better basketball player these last two years.

If it is between him and Bennett I don't think twice about whose spot it is.

Who is sleeping on him? I see not one person here (who knows what they are talking about) saying he wouldn't be part of the team.
Nicholson has straight up proven he can score in FIBA ball - very important. His D? - well that is a work in progress.

[slothrop8]

I like Nicholson - he'll provide scoring punch off the bench for us. I can't wait to watch a Canada game with multiple NBA players on our bench. That was an unfathomable dream even 15 years ago.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Alright, I know I'm getting WAY ahead of myself here, but watching the young guys today and you can't help but think of the future of the program. It got me excited about what our 2020 Olympic team could possibly look like. Obviously this is far too early when trying to factor in young players, but if these players develop the way I think they could, a 2020 team could look something like this (the ages I've listed would be their ages at the time of an August 2020 games).

Player - Age
C - Kelly Olynyk 29
F - Trey Lyles 24
F - Andrew Wiggins 25
G - Nik Stauskas 26
G - Jamal Murray 23
C - Robert Sacre 31
F - Tristan Thompson 29
F - Kyle Wiltjer 27
G - Rowan Barrett Jr. 20
G - Tyler Ennis 26
F - Dwight Powell 29
G - Cory Joseph 28

[frumble]

I've never liked Englishs game. He was the definition of a ball-stopping chucker everytime I've seen him play and the idea of of non-NBA caliber player killing our ball movement and team play would be a nightmare. Maybe his team skills have improved and he's a completely different player, but if he isn't Rautins should be way ahead of him as well as Heslip. The only way would be if Stauskas isn't ready and they're too worried about Rautins/heslip being too small at the 2.

You might be right about English (and Rautins being a better player) as it has been awhile since I have seen either of them play. I always thought English was somewhat forced into a chucker role with Team Canada as we had such bad offense and not much scoring from elsewhere. I remember him being a crucial part of the 2009 FIBA America's Team that qualified for the Worlds (memories!). He missed the 2010 Worlds and our offense seemed to suffer (from what I can remember we even had Joel Anthony lead us in scoring for a game or two). English has always seemed to be a very good euro-league player over the years (playing in the better leagues). Back in the 09/10 era I thought English was much better than Rautins, but that was 5 years ago now. I now look at English as our FIBA vet, which has value in its own, but I guess Rautins has quite few years of FIBA experience under his belt now. I agree Heslip is a little small but Rautins is what 6'5? 6'4? Not that bad for FIBA.

Re the SG options, I suspect that the problem will sort itself out, as I think that of the four primary candidates (English, Heslip, Rautins, and Stauskas), at least one will take a pass.

The last few years only Heslip has been a reliable participant for Canada, as he showed up in 2012, 2013, and 2014.

English didn't show up for the huge training camp Nash organized for summer 2012 and was a last-minute pull-out from the 2013 team (though he did show up for the exhibition tour last summer).

Rautins didn't attend the 2012 camp, played in 2013, but didn't show for the 2014 exhibition tour.

Stauskas came to the camp in 2012, but has never played for the senior team (would have been good enough in 2013 or 2014), and hasn't played at any level since the 2009 U16s (would have been good enough for the 2010 U17s and the 2011 U19s).

So in terms of attendance the last three summers, Heslip is 3/3, and the others are 1/3 (admittedly, 2012 and 2014 weren't particularly important), and I would be very surprised if all four accepted invitations to camp this summer.

Re past team Canada performance, English and Rautins have each had their good and bad tournaments. Overall, in meaningful tournaments (counting qualifying tournaments and the 2010 worlds, but omitting Tuto Marchand Cups and other exhibition games), their numbers for Canada are remarkably similar.

Rautins, 706 minutes, 42% overall, 37% from 3, 91% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 2.9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2.1 turnovers, 0.9 steals, and 12.1 pts.

English, 777 minutes, 41% overall, 37% from 3, 83% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 3.7 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 3.4 turnovers, 1.0 steals, and 14.2 pts.

Heslip, 154 minutes, 43% overall, 52% from 3, 78% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 1.9 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 0.6 steals, and 13.6 pts.

So, in a very limited sample, Heslip has shot better. Heslip also shot lights out last summer, and had the better Euro-league season. But of course he is also 3-4 inches shorter than English and Rautins, is more one-dimensional, and has far less experience.

Stauskas has the best NCAA record of the four, but had a very poor rookie season, has the least overall experience, and no FIBA experience.

It will be a tough choice if they all show up to camp, but, like I said, I have a feeling it will sort itself out with at least one of them taking a pass.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Regardless of what happens with the qualifying tournament, Stauskas and Bennett are the two NBA players that I really hope put their names in for the Pan Am team as well. They both had fairly bad years, received inconsistent playing time, and could really use a boost in confidence in their games.

If those two decided to play for the Pan Am team, they would instantly become options #1 and 2 on offence, and it would allow them to get some flow back into their games. Neither of them should be tired after barely playing during the season, they're both seemingly healthy, and neither have contract issues to worry about. The only obstacle is that they may want/be asked to play in summer league. In many ways, however, I think the international tournament would be a better experience than trying to play in glorified pick-up games with 11 other guys trying to bring attention to themselves.

It would also obviously help the program by adding talent and a public draw to the Pan Am team, as well as giving players who should be important members of the program going forward a little bit more international experience. I hope someone with Team Canada is trying to make a strong pitch to them (and their teams to let them out of summer league duty).

[mojo13]

I've never liked Englishs game. He was the definition of a ball-stopping chucker everytime I've seen him play and the idea of of non-NBA caliber player killing our ball movement and team play would be a nightmare. Maybe his team skills have improved and he's a completely different player, but if he isn't Rautins should be way ahead of him as well as Heslip. The only way would be if Stauskas isn't ready and they're too worried about Rautins/heslip being too small at the 2.

You might be right about English (and Rautins being a better player) as it has been awhile since I have seen either of them play. I always thought English was somewhat forced into a chucker role with Team Canada as we had such bad offense and not much scoring from elsewhere. I remember him being a crucial part of the 2009 FIBA America's Team that qualified for the Worlds (memories!). He missed the 2010 Worlds and our offense seemed to suffer (from what I can remember we even had Joel Anthony lead us in scoring for a game or two). English has always seemed to be a very good euro-league player over the years (playing in the better leagues). Back in the 09/10 era I thought English was much better than Rautins, but that was 5 years ago now. I now look at English as our FIBA vet, which has value in its own, but I guess Rautins has quite few years of FIBA experience under his belt now. I agree Heslip is a little small but Rautins is what 6'5? 6'4? Not that bad for FIBA.

Re the SG options, I suspect that the problem will sort itself out, as I think that of the four primary candidates (English, Heslip, Rautins, and Stauskas), at least one will take a pass.

The last few years only Heslip has been a reliable participant for Canada, as he showed up in 2012, 2013, and 2014.

English didn't show up for the huge training camp Nash organized for summer 2012 and was a last-minute pull-out from the 2013 team (though he did show up for the exhibition tour last summer).

Rautins didn't attend the 2012 camp, played in 2013, but didn't show for the 2014 exhibition tour.

Stauskas came to the camp in 2012, but has never played for the senior team (would have been good enough in 2013 or 2014), and hasn't played at any level since the 2009 U16s (would have been good enough for the 2010 U17s and the 2011 U19s).

So in terms of attendance the last three summers, Heslip is 3/3, and the others are 1/3 (admittedly, 2012 and 2014 weren't particularly important), and I would be very surprised if all four accepted invitations to camp this summer.

Re past team Canada performance, English and Rautins have each had their good and bad tournaments. Overall, in meaningful tournaments (counting qualifying tournaments and the 2010 worlds, but omitting Tuto Marchand Cups and other exhibition games), their numbers for Canada are remarkably similar.

Rautins, 706 minutes, 42% overall, 37% from 3, 91% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 2.9 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2.1 turnovers, 0.9 steals, and 12.1 pts.

English, 777 minutes, 41% overall, 37% from 3, 83% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 3.7 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 3.4 turnovers, 1.0 steals, and 14.2 pts.

Heslip, 154 minutes, 43% overall, 52% from 3, 78% FT.
Per 30 minutes: 1.9 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 0.6 steals, and 13.6 pts.

So, in a very limited sample, Heslip has shot better. Heslip also shot lights out last summer, and had the better Euro-league season. But of course he is also 3-4 inches shorter than English and Rautins, is more one-dimensional, and has far less experience.

Stauskas has the best NCAA record of the four, but had a very poor rookie season, has the least overall experience, and no FIBA experience.

It will be a tough choice if they all show up to camp, but, like I said, I have a feeling it will sort itself out with at least one of them taking a pass.

Thanks for the analysis Frumble - that is very helpful. And I think you are right that we may be getting ahead of ourselves and this will all sort itself out with a "pass" or two. The only comment is that I still put Heslip a notch below Rautins/English right now. He played well this year in the D and Europe but it is was the Adriatic League where Rautins and English were in the the top Italian and Greek leagues respectively. Both had very good years. Heslip, as you said, is small and not known to be a great defender. None of them are good, but I hope someone can be at least average. Heslip at least is trending up, maybe Rautins still is too, but English probably has peaked an is on the downswing of his career,

Stauskas, as you implied, is more of a wildcard - obviously the most upside, but the youngest and most inexperienced of the four.
He will be interesting to watch this summer. He had a terrible year in Sacramento but seemed to turn it around abit under George Karl. Fans have tuned on him already and are looking for a trade and you do here rumors. Stauskus pretty much admitted he wasn't ready physically for the NBA (a boy among men) and has committed to training hard this summer back in Michigan with the trainer who beefed him up between freshman and sophomore years. These guys pretty much have to be at summer league at this stage of their careers don't you think? Powell too and probably Bennett for that matter.

[frumble]

At the U16s, Canada - Argentina is about to start.

http://www.fibaamericas.com/u16/

If Canada wins, they play the Dominican in tomorrow's semi.
If they lose, they have to play the US in the semi.


Re summer league, yes, I think Stauskas and Powell will be there for sure.
I am less certain about Bennett. May depend on how many first and second year players Minnesota wants to take a close look at. Incoming third year guys (like Bennett) are far less common.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Re summer league, yes, I think Stauskas and Powell will be there for sure.

I agree Stauskas will probably be there, although I still think he'd be better off playing for the Pan Am team (As fun as it is as a fan to watch, I'm not really sold on the utility of the summer leagues as a development tool).

Does anyone know if Dallas will pick up their option on Powell for next year? I would imagine that he showed enough to warrant the $800,000 or so they would owe him, but I haven't heard anything official.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Argentina is obviously a better team than Mexico or Venezuela, but Canada still needs to tighten things up quite a bit in this final quarter in order to finish strong and avoid the US in the next round.

Barrett, Simi and Djurik are getting most of the attention and hype, and for good reason, but I've also been quite impressed with the other two starters - Kirkwood and Nembhard. Kirkwood just seems to have a very good all around game and solid BBIQ, and Nembhard is a very calm and steady floor leader. I'd say they both have NCAA high major potential. And they're just 15 as well. Does anyone know - are they both class of 2019 like Barrett?

[mojo13]

Re summer league, yes, I think Stauskas and Powell will be there for sure.

I agree Stauskas will probably be there, although I still think he'd be better off playing for the Pan Am team (As fun as it is as a fan to watch, I'm not really sold on the utility of the summer leagues as a development tool).

Does anyone know if Dallas will pick up their option on Powell for next year? I would imagine that he showed enough to warrant the $800,000 or so they would owe him, but I haven't heard anything official.

My understanding is that it was 2yrs guaranteed when he signed with Cleveland. It runs through the 2015/16 season. And there is talk that he will be a key front court rotation guy for the Mavs. 800k is indeed the base salary. Funny, now that he is the more important piece of the Rondo trade.

[frumble]

Barrett, Simi and Djurik are getting most of the attention and hype, and for good reason, but I've also been quite impressed with the other two starters - Kirkwood and Nembhard. Kirkwood just seems to have a very good all around game and solid BBIQ, and Nembhard is a very calm and steady floor leader. I'd say they both have NCAA high major potential. And they're just 15 as well. Does anyone know - are they both class of 2019 like Barrett?

Nembhard has also impressed me. I believe he is finishing grade 9 (at Vaughan), so that would make him class of 2018 if he stays in Canada (which I guess he plans on doing for one more year). But a lot of guys seem to lose a year when they move to US for high school. Of course some of them end up gaining that year back when they reclassify (e.g., Brooks and Gill-Caeasar), so I guess it could be 2018 or 2019.