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Is Klay Thompson overrated?

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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#41 » by Bandito » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:49 am

Coxy wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
Coxy wrote:Klays ability to attack the bucket? Are we talking about the same player? That's Klays biggest weakness on offense mostly. Butler is a stud at it.

I'm a huge fan of Beal. I think he'll jump into superstardom next season. He's everything i want Klay to be, just younger and still raw.

Wade is still a monster.

Don't get me wrong, I love Klay, but he is what he is because of his demeanor. He's a space cadet and when he thinks, he fails, and he tries to think too much. When he doesn't think though, look out.


Yeah but Klay's improved leaps and bounds attacking the bucket and you can't say he's poor.

Doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxA3pDKNas

and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRAK0qy5GY

is no longer rare for Klay anymore. I mean, can you honestly say you remember Klay being able to do this before this year? Did you ever think he would have this ability before this year? I think your characterization of Klay as a "space cadet" is hyperbole. When Curry's been out or off, Klay's scoring has carried us a number of times this playoffs.

Beal can't carry a team with his scoring.

If you're going to be ranking Beal based on what you project he's going to be, it's only fair that you do the same for Klay since he too is clearly still improving. Attacking the bucket is part of Klay's learning curve and he's only going to get better.


As a top 6'7 G/F with solid handles, his attacking of the basket is below average at BEST. Those dunks ARE rare. He should be doing that a number of times per game, but he doesn't. I usually love highlight dunks, but I'd rather see more attacking the basket with players in front of him and scoring with And1's. He can't do it, it's not his game. I've never seen him go up strong at a shot blocker, take contact, adjust in the air and finish. He has no confidence to do it. Maybe he will learn to, but right now he's a shooter and a very rare dunk finisher. As a main scoring weapon, this frustrates me. His Klayups are a real thing.

Beal absolutely finished better than Klay, and YES he can carry a team with his scoring. Just watch him, he's awesome. His display in these playoffs were nuts. Such a talent.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajDvGnl-ehs[/youtube]


Beal very well could turn into a superstar and surpass Klay, but he certainly hasn't yet. You're talking about a kid who shot like 42% from the floor this year and had a 16 PER, and still hasn't learned to play high level defense on anything close to a consistent basis. Ranking him ahead of Klay right now is jumping the gun big time.

As far as Beals "terrific" playoff performance, he averaged 23 PPG on 20 shots per game, shooting 40% from the floor. You'd be scratching your eyeballs out if Klay put up those numbers. He's a super talented kid, with a long way to go to catch Klay, offensively or defensively.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#42 » by whocurrz » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:50 am

On this board Klay is underrated. Klay was a top 10 per 36 scorer (IIRC) on awesome percentages and efficiency and has a huge gravitational effect as well as ability to move off ball which warps a defense. His volume and efficiency numbers for a guy in his fourth year are most definitely all star worthy. He just plays In a conference with a lot of good guards.

Beal is not better at all. Dude takes really inefficient shots and despite his hype that he can, he hardly gets to the rim. I see wizards fans complain constantly about him and his propensity for long 2s. He also has one of the best passing PGs next to him and The Truth. Beal scores 16 pts per 36 with a PER of 14 and 52 TS%. Klay scores 24 pts per 36 has a PER of 20 and a 59 TS%. Beal actually is nowhere near as good as Klay (although some similar numbers to Klay lasts year). He has had some good post seasons but Barnes has too and he's nowhere near a top 5 SF.
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Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#43 » by and1GS » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:00 am

Coxy wrote:The Space Cadet is a little overrated, but that's OK, he's the perfect running mate for Steph, the brother of splashes.

My SG list.

1. Harden
2. Butler
3. Beal
4. Wade
5. Klay
6. Middleton
7. Kobe
8. Derozan
9. Gordon
10. Korver
11. Monta

Edit - Forgot about Wade.


No offense man but this list is awful. If you get frustrated by Klay you'd hate Beal - a one way undersized SG. The roommate is a jizzards fan so I watch him a ton. Here's my top 6:

Harden


Klay/Butler depending on the day/matchup

Wade (talent is clearly 1/2 caliber but he's never healthy)
DeRozan
Beal
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#44 » by FNQ » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:10 am

If Harden were here, fans would hate his ball dominance and lack of D
If Butler were here, fans would wonder why he can only bring it on O or D, but never both
They'd hate Beal's D
Wade has no range, ball dominant, injury prone


Maybe the problem is fans who have problems with non-creating wings. If we take the microscope to all SGs like Klay, there wouldn't be a single all star at SG.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#45 » by DreDay » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:42 am

Bandito wrote:
oaklandwarriors wrote:He's probably 3rd around Hayward/Butler levels. I still have healthy Wade above him, healthy Wade on this team would absolutely kill the league (Kind of like what we've done but better :D).


Healthy Wade hasn't been seen in a couple years, and healthy Wade is entering his age 34 season. His game was always dependent on his superior athleticism, no doubt his athleticism declined, and it's been years since he was a good defender. He's a shell of what he once was.

Klay was better this season (not even arguable), and Klay is trending upward while Wade is trending sharply downward. Knowledgable Heat fans wouldn't even rank Wade ahead of Klay at this juncture.

If y'all had watched as many Heat games as Warriors games this year, highly doubtful you'd be ranking Wade ahead of Klay. You're basing "healthy Wade" on " prime aged Wade"...he's neither anymore.


Wade was an efficient 22/5 this year, lets not act like he was a scrub. Klay is just behind him IMO at 3rd, will overtake him next year, and he's ahead of Butler and Hayward at 4 and 5.
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Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#46 » by and1GS » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:46 am

Gordon Hayward plays the 3, just FYI
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#47 » by donalddole » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:53 am

whocurrz wrote:On this board Klay is underrated. Klay was a top 10 per 36 scorer (IIRC) on awesome percentages and efficiency and has a huge gravitational effect as well as ability to move off ball which warps a defense. His volume and efficiency numbers for a guy in his fourth year are most definitely all star worthy. He just plays In a conference with a lot of good guards.

Beal is not better at all. Dude takes really inefficient shots and despite his hype that he can, he hardly gets to the rim. I see wizards fans complain constantly about him and his propensity for long 2s. He also has one of the best passing PGs next to him and The Truth. Beal scores 16 pts per 36 with a PER of 14 and 52 TS%. Klay scores 24 pts per 36 has a PER of 20 and a 59 TS%. Beal actually is nowhere near as good as Klay (although some similar numbers to Klay lasts year). He has had some good post seasons but Barnes has too and he's nowhere near a top 5 SF.



I'd take Klay over Beal. But I think Klay benefits big time from playing with Curry in the backcourt. Just think about how much Beal would be better if Curry played with him.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#48 » by Quazza » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:12 am

and1GS wrote:
Coxy wrote:The Space Cadet is a little overrated, but that's OK, he's the perfect running mate for Steph, the brother of splashes.

My SG list.

1. Harden
2. Butler
3. Beal
4. Wade
5. Klay
6. Middleton
7. Kobe
8. Derozan
9. Gordon
10. Korver
11. Monta

Edit - Forgot about Wade.


No offense man but this list is awful. If you get frustrated by Klay you'd hate Beal - a one way undersized SG. The roommate is a jizzards fan so I watch him a ton. Here's my top 6:

Harden


Klay/Butler depending on the day/matchup

Wade (talent is clearly 1/2 caliber but he's never healthy)
DeRozan
Beal



yer you know I <3 you Coxman, but Klay is way ahead of Beal right now still
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#49 » by Coxy » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:45 am

You can all go and make love to yourselves, Beal is better, and will be miles better soon enough.

I love Klay like a sister still though.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#50 » by DreDay » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:56 am

If you ask that question on the Player Comparison or GB board, I doubt Beal will get 25% of the vote.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#51 » by whocurrz » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:57 am

Coxy wrote:You can all go and make love to yourselves, Beal is better, and will be miles better soon enough.

I love Klay like a sister still though.


He's only better if you throw things like stats and production out the window. Klay is much better currently at producing results though. I think Beal can make a huge jump as he was banged up coming into the year which was the year people were expecting that jump after his good playoffs, but he's just not consistently efficient yet. He has a handle though, is young and is more athletic than Klay. So I have no problem with the opinion that you think he will be better down the road (although don't know how much better he'll get offensively with Whitman and his vanilla schemes). But he definitely has in no way proven to be better yet
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#52 » by Coxy » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:04 am

whocurrz wrote:
Coxy wrote:You can all go and make love to yourselves, Beal is better, and will be miles better soon enough.

I love Klay like a sister still though.


He's only better if you throw things like stats and production out the window. Klay is much better currently at producing results though. I think Beal can make a huge jump as he was banged up coming into the year which was the year people were expecting that jump after his good playoffs, but he's just not consistently efficient yet. He has a handle though, is young and is more athletic than Klay. So I have no problem with the opinion that you think he will be better down the road (although don't know how much better he'll get offensively with Whitman and his vanilla schemes). But he definitely has in no way proven to be better yet


Put Beal next to Curry in this offense/system, and his stats and production would be elite.

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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#53 » by Bandito » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:06 am

oaklandwarriors wrote:
Bandito wrote:
oaklandwarriors wrote:He's probably 3rd around Hayward/Butler levels. I still have healthy Wade above him, healthy Wade on this team would absolutely kill the league (Kind of like what we've done but better :D).


Healthy Wade hasn't been seen in a couple years, and healthy Wade is entering his age 34 season. His game was always dependent on his superior athleticism, no doubt his athleticism declined, and it's been years since he was a good defender. He's a shell of what he once was.

Klay was better this season (not even arguable), and Klay is trending upward while Wade is trending sharply downward. Knowledgable Heat fans wouldn't even rank Wade ahead of Klay at this juncture.

If y'all had watched as many Heat games as Warriors games this year, highly doubtful you'd be ranking Wade ahead of Klay. You're basing "healthy Wade" on " prime aged Wade"...he's neither anymore.


Wade was an efficient 22/5 this year, lets not act like he was a scrub. Klay is just behind him IMO at 3rd, will overtake him next year, and he's ahead of Butler and Hayward at 4 and 5.


It's pretty common for players to decline in their 30's, and Wade's stats show a pretty clear 3 year decline. Age 31 he put up 9.6 win shares, at 32 he put up 5.5 win shares, and last year at 33 he put up 3.5 win shares. In his prime, he was a 12-15 win shares guy, but that was years ago.

Klay meanwhile is trending upwards as he progresses towards his prime he's gone from 4.3, to 6.7, to 8.8 win shares over the past 3 seasons.

Klays win shares over the past 2 seasons combined 15.6, compared to 9.0 for Wade. We are talking who is currently the better player and there's little doubt it's Klay. Not to mention the trajectory strongly favors Klay.

I'm not acting like Wade is a "scrub", I think he's still a top 5 SG. If anything you're judging Wade on his merits of years past when he was a different athlete by having him currently ranked ahead of Klay. Wade is human, he's entering his mid 30's and his skills have already declined quite a bit. That's not going to reverse itself.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#54 » by JimmyTD3 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:42 am

On the eve of game 5 of the NBA freaking Finals and this is what we're talking about? Really?

Pathetic

Bradley Beal? GTFO. 15/4/3 on 43% FG...dude is putting up J.R. Smith numbers, he can't even hold Klay's jock.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#55 » by cladden » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:49 am

likashing wrote:
Bandito wrote:
likashing wrote:I like him a lot and I see a lot of areas he can improve. It ticks off a lot of people because after Steph, Klay get a free pass around here.

For one, a great SG doesn't go 23 points on 25 shots with 0 FT in 2 finals games. Also a 9 point game on Thursday. I am one of the few who dare to mention it here. Many Klay fans see no issue about his play.

I like he is durable though. Especially on our team since we are not used to durable players. It is an aspect that gets overlooked. If you are not playing, it doesn't matter how great you are.


Having some off games doesn't mean a player isn't great. People on the board seem to have a hard time soaking that in. Great players have bad games, too. This is the first time in the finals for all our youngsters. We're also over 100 games into the season, that's a hell of a workload.

You say top 5 SG. Can you name 3 you think are better than Klay? Can you even name 2 you would take over Klay going forward? He's easily a top 3 player at the SG position in the NBA, and he's still trending upward.


if you add enough qualifiers anyone can be a top player. Why do I need to play this which other SG is better game with you? He is a top 1-2 two-way SG, ya. Where does he rank as a guard? How does he rank as a wing? SG is a dying breed for a reason. You are screwed if you tie up your salary cap to a non-impact one.

He stunk it up for 2 Finals game and scored 9 freaking points the most recent game. "Just having a few off games"? You make it sound like we can have another finals shot soon. Oh it's his first finals blah blah. Exactly why I say Klay gets the pass around here. For many players, your first chance might be your final chance. We just paid $70 million and we expect more from him in critical games. I'm not saying he needs to lock down Lebron and drop 40. Just don't score 9 and try to get some FTs if your shots aren't falling. Isn't it a fair expectation?


So how do you feel about Steph's bull finals performances so far? Way down from expecations.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#56 » by Coxy » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:06 am

Stringcheese wrote:On the eve of game 5 of the NBA freaking Finals and this is what we're talking about? Really?

Pathetic

Bradley Beal? GTFO. 15/4/3 on 43% FG...dude is putting up J.R. Smith numbers, he can't even hold Klay's jock.


Putting up J.R Smith numbers, and playing like J.R Smith are very different things.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#57 » by Illmatic12 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:53 am

Stringcheese wrote:On the eve of game 5 of the NBA freaking Finals and this is what we're talking about? Really?

Pathetic

Bradley Beal? GTFO. 15/4/3 on 43% FG...dude is putting up J.R. Smith numbers, he can't even hold Klay's jock.

I agree Klay is better right now, but someone could have said exactly that ^ about Klay a few seasons ago (heck JR was arguably much better then, he won 6MOY)

People who've watched ball for a while know how to spot a player who's going to be good in a few years. If you've seen Beal play you would know. Since being drafted his unlucky injuries (broke his wrist one year, also had a recurring stress fracture in his shin and the team mandated a minutes limit on him) are the only reason he hasn't broken out. When you're young it's hard to sit out injured for a while, then come back in seamlessly and immediately play well. But when he's been healthy the talent he possesses is clear.

"Bradley Beal. He’s a beast, man. He’s one of the better players in our league and to be that young and do the things that he can do, it’s very impressive. " - Joakim Noah after 2014 Bulls-Wiz series

"“Bradley’s, I mean he’s a superstar in this league,” George said. “He’s on the rise. He is poised. He’s a great shot-maker, a great playmaker, and he just plays within the game and himself. " - Paul George after Pacers-Wiz series

On Beal: “One of those guys that’s going to be a treat to watch for the next 10 or 15 years.” - Kevin Durant


There's a reason why Paul Pierce saw something in the Wizards team to come to DC. Ask opposing players, GMs and true bball heads because they know what's up, Coxy is the only poster in this thread who is ahead of the curve. I know no one watched the Wizards, trust me you will be hearing Bradley Beal's name for a long time. Compare his playoff stats' the last two years to Klay's :

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6580/year/2014/bradley-beal
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6475/year/2014/klay-thompson

2014 Beal age 20: averages 20/5/5 against #2 defense Bulls (Jimmy Butler was his defender), then the same vs #1 defense Pacers (burned Lance in game 1, then they switched Paul George onto him for the rest of the series. He also guarded Lance who is bigger and shut him down in 5/6 games)

2015 Beal age 21: averages 21/4/5 against Toronto (he had some rough streaks of shooting, but played great all-around game), averages 25/6/5 against #1 seed Atlanta, including running the team and taking over when Wall went down. And he did all that while absolutely dogging Korver on defense. Barely even let him get a look at the basket the whole series

“I hate when he touches the ball, period,” Beal said. “It’s not just me. Even if he passes it, I hate when the ball is in his hands, period. Whenever he’s on the floor, we’re aware of where he is.”

Not sure where you guys got the idea that Beal isn't a two way player, he's a bit undersized to guard large SFs like Klay does, but he guards his position well and has great all-around bball IQ.

His knocks are efficiency on offense, but I think over time he will learn to cut out some of his rushed jumpers. Wiz fans optimism about Beal is that he's a bigtime player in the postseason at a young age, and he has a natural, high IQ all-around floor game and plays defense. He rebounds better than Klay despite being smaller, and sees the floor better.

And furthermore, in three full calendar years, Beal STILL won't be as old as Klay is today. Beal started out as Wall's sidekick, but he's accelerating quickly into the role of a #1 option and playmaker because of his youth. Klay may be too old at this point to go through the same development.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#58 » by ILOVEIT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:59 am

The next level for Klay will be when he can put the Warriors on his back and still lead the team to victory WHEN HIS SHOTS AREN'T FALLING. That means CREATING contact and getting to the line....avoiding bonehead turnover prone stretches....

He's close...but not there yet. I agree he's a bottem level all-star....But I wouldn't call him over-rated.
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#59 » by Illmatic12 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:00 am

Coxy wrote:
Stringcheese wrote:On the eve of game 5 of the NBA freaking Finals and this is what we're talking about? Really?

Pathetic

Bradley Beal? GTFO. 15/4/3 on 43% FG...dude is putting up J.R. Smith numbers, he can't even hold Klay's jock.


Putting up J.R Smith numbers, and playing like J.R Smith are very different things.

This. Tbh Beal needs to watch film and work on not rushing so many midrange jumpers when in PnR, but he plays a high IQ game and is one of the smartest off-ball guards in the league already. When I watched him break out in the playoffs last year I knew he was going to be good, 20yo kid and he wasn't even fazed by the moment:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0Feyno3Kg[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj9AdH7I1Dw[/youtube]

He possesses a natural feel for the game that you can't teach. Wiz fans are just crossing our fingers that he can have a good run of health finally

Klay is much better player right now, but at age 25 I don't know if he's going to develop the on-ball skills necessary to be a dynamic impact star, rather than just a great 'sidekick'
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Re: Is Klay Thompson overrated? 

Post#60 » by NBAfan3024 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:27 am

Is he suddenly rated that high? i don't think anybody thinks he's anything more than just a very good all-star

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