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Embiid Updates/Discussion

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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#361 » by bedjawII » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:28 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:They probably kept this quiet for months in order to sell tickets for next year.

Why do people continue to say "I'd still draft Embiid over Exum, Gordon, etc.."? Staying at #3 was not the only option. The 3rd pick of a draft is a major asset.

Because revisionist historians are not bold. The Sixers made the best choice given the info they had at the time. I want them to do that 100% of the time and take calculated risks. But doing that also means you have to live with the consequences when soothing doesn't work in your favor. You can't ask them to be bold then second guess a decision when you have a poor outcome. The careful and cautious have never done anything great.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#362 » by Unbreakable99 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:31 pm

Again, does anyone know where Gargano got the info where he has to see a specialist and we won't know anything for 10 days? He's the only one saying this.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#363 » by PhilasFinest » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:32 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:Again, does anyone know where Gargano got the info where he has to see a specialist and we won't know anything for 10 days? He's the only one saying this.


No clue....havent seen anything.10 days could simply be the length of time it takes to see the specialist
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#364 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:34 pm

Outside of small tradebacks, a top 3 pick hasn't been traded in 14 years. Very difficult to determine what the value of such a trade would have been without being closer to the situation. Just like it's very difficult to determine how far off from the standard 85% success rate for this surgery someone with Joel's body type should be. Heck, we don't even know what the ramifications of this news about this setback are.

But hey, wild speculations are fun.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#365 » by NYSixersFan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:38 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:They probably kept this quiet for months in order to sell tickets for next year.

Why do people continue to say "I'd still draft Embiid over Exum, Gordon, etc.."? Staying at #3 was not the only option. The 3rd pick of a draft is a major asset.


Because its true....and What were you getting for the #3 pick that was worth giving it up?

pretty sure no one was moving a franchise level talent for the 3rd pick.



Don't be naive. It's a pretty big leap to go from "I'd rather draft Embiid over Exum" to "nobody is giving up a franchise player for the 3rd pick".
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#366 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:48 pm

Oh wait, Wiggins was traded last year, duh.

The Cavs traded Wiggins, Bennett and the Heat pick for 1 year of Kevin Love.

IDK what your definition of franchise player is, but that tells me that #3 wasn't getting you anywhere near someone like that. Ultimately, I'm not seeing a return that exceeds the expected return on Embiid, unless of course you have doctors telling you there's no way he can be healthy, which by all accounts was not the case.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#367 » by BobThornton » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:50 pm

Another source, an Eastern Conference executive, said Sunday that the 76ers' rebuilding plan is doomed if Embiid is unable to remain healthy or play at a high level.

"He was their guy," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were hoping he was a franchise player. If he's not a franchise player, their whole plan is gone. . . . If Embiid can't play or if he can't reach a superstar level, their plan is really in trouble."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... SY8F4Kv.99


Noel, Saric, #3 Pick this year, 4 first rounders next year. Infinite cap space.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#368 » by mksp » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:59 pm

Only in the NBA can a bunch of rich guys from freaking Apollo feel like underdogs, but here we are.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#369 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:01 pm

BobThornton wrote:
Another source, an Eastern Conference executive, said Sunday that the 76ers' rebuilding plan is doomed if Embiid is unable to remain healthy or play at a high level.

"He was their guy," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were hoping he was a franchise player. If he's not a franchise player, their whole plan is gone. . . . If Embiid can't play or if he can't reach a superstar level, their plan is really in trouble."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... SY8F4Kv.99


Noel, Saric, #3 Pick this year, 4 first rounders next year. Infinite cap space. Hope this anonymous executive steps in front of a bus today.


That is really not necessary.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#370 » by PhilasFinest » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:02 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:They probably kept this quiet for months in order to sell tickets for next year.

Why do people continue to say "I'd still draft Embiid over Exum, Gordon, etc.."? Staying at #3 was not the only option. The 3rd pick of a draft is a major asset.


Because its true....and What were you getting for the #3 pick that was worth giving it up?

pretty sure no one was moving a franchise level talent for the 3rd pick.



Don't be naive. It's a pretty big leap to go from "I'd rather draft Embiid over Exum" to "nobody is giving up a franchise player for the 3rd pick".


How am I being "naive"?

I stated id draft Embiid over Exum,Gordon, etc 100 times out of 100.
You stated staying at #3 was not the only option...(Which is an assumption on your behalf)

I replied that I don't think anyone would give up a player with franchise level talent (Which Embiid has) for the 3rd pick.

Your gimmick gets old....go cry in a corner somewhere or like another team.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#371 » by Mik317 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:11 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:They probably kept this quiet for months in order to sell tickets for next year.

Why do people continue to say "I'd still draft Embiid over Exum, Gordon, etc.."? Staying at #3 was not the only option. The 3rd pick of a draft is a major asset.


come on bruh.

I was team Exum but trading down for lesser prospects or worse for some vet would have been stupid and goes against the whole point of tanking. This sucks. And if Embiid is unable to go...we are ****. AND YEAH perhaps we should have seen this coming...however trading down for Randle (who also got hurt and had a bad foot IIRC) or trading down for some random vet wouldn't have changed much beyond our current draft standing....This sucks, yes But that isn't any better..

You don't like the plan, cool. I get that. But at this point, trying to rush it now would only **** us up the butt later. Especially with this setback....we try to contend ASAP and we more than likely would be in a far worse place in a few years. This is bad..don't make it worse.

Lets all take a positive view here....lets assume that Embiid is donzo and anything we get out of him is a bonus. He is no longer the centerpiece ATM. We take A PG or Kristaps at 3, make some moves and get back into the first and get either a shooter (for Mudiay), A athlete (for Russell), or a PG (for Kristaps/Okafor) and then get a solid young dude in FA to fill the remaining hole so

either
Russell/RHJ/Cov/FA/Noel
Mudiay/Hunter/Cov/FA/Noel
Wright/FA/Cov/Kristaps/Noel

and keep it moving. Be eehhhh next year hopefully, no more kneecapping ourseves at the deadline, and hopefully our rookie and Noel are progressing nicely. That is the best course of action IMO. Making any drastic panic moves now (TRADE THE PICK FOR TY LAWSON AND TRY TO MAKE DA PLAYOFFZ YO) while short term would soothe the masses would only place us back on that treadmill again. But also don't tank as hard again...stay the course.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#372 » by NYSixersFan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:11 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
Because its true....and What were you getting for the #3 pick that was worth giving it up?

pretty sure no one was moving a franchise level talent for the 3rd pick.



Don't be naive. It's a pretty big leap to go from "I'd rather draft Embiid over Exum" to "nobody is giving up a franchise player for the 3rd pick".


How am I being "naive"?

I stated id draft Embiid over Exum,Gordon, etc 100 times out of 100.
You stated staying at #3 was not the only option...(Which is an assumption on your behalf)

I replied that I don't think anyone would give up a player with franchise level talent (Which Embiid has) for the 3rd pick.

Your gimmick gets old....go cry in a corner somewhere or like another team.



I don't agree with the suggestion that we needed to get a franchise player in order to trade the # 3 pick....I'm also not buying the idea we couldn't have traded down....and yes, I would rather have had Julius Randle + another player and/or 1st round pick.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#373 » by 42uptop » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:16 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:
42uptop wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:Uhhh, you're right, I don't get it. This isn't blackjack or a stock or whatever other example you want to use....this is basketball. You talk about probabilities...and I know that the probability of Embiid being and staying healthy is low.


I know the probability of you knowing anything about Embiid is low.

You haven't got a clue. Making up statistics is not going to get anyone to take your opinions seriously.



Really? I know Embiid has had serious injuries....that's all I need to know


Noel had serious injuries and he was a steal. Embiid was practicing a few weeks ago and looked in shape, and he can be even better than Noel. Obviously you don't understand probability if you think we should have passed on the best prospects due to injury.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#374 » by 42uptop » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:18 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:
I don't agree with the suggestion that we needed to get a franchise player in order to trade the # 3 pick....I'm also not buying the idea we couldn't have traded down....and yes, I would rather have had Julius Randle + another player and/or 1st round pick.


Julius Randle is a big man with serious injuries. He will never be healthy, that's all I need to know to prove you wrong.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#375 » by mksp » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:23 pm

High draft picks bust all the time. If Embiid never plays a game, it would hardly be "franchise crippling" or whatever.

If Embiid does not play this year, it clearly sets the rebuild back a year.

But the top of the draft is very good next year, and we will likely have two top ten picks, including potentially another top-3 pick if Embiid does not play.

So things could be far worse.

Would it really be that bad to build around a core of Mudiay or Porzingis, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric and Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram?
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#376 » by ProcessDoctor » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:26 pm

BobThornton wrote:
Another source, an Eastern Conference executive, said Sunday that the 76ers' rebuilding plan is doomed if Embiid is unable to remain healthy or play at a high level.

"He was their guy," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were hoping he was a franchise player. If he's not a franchise player, their whole plan is gone. . . . If Embiid can't play or if he can't reach a superstar level, their plan is really in trouble."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... SY8F4Kv.99


Noel, Saric, #3 Pick this year, 4 first rounders next year. Infinite cap space.


I feel like this is an exec who does not approve of the sixers rebuilding strategy, which is fine. I don't know how he said this, but it seems like his internal bias against them is taking over here. Any rational person would agree that with Noel and five upcoming first-round picks (3-4 of them likely being lottery picks), the sixers plan really is not in trouble. Heck, if we land KAT or Okafor this year then we may have accelerated the plan by having two healthy bigs who are ready to play right now. However, it sure would have been a great bonus to land #1 in the lottery to secure KAT.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#377 » by Skates » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:28 pm

BobThornton wrote:
Another source, an Eastern Conference executive, said Sunday that the 76ers' rebuilding plan is doomed if Embiid is unable to remain healthy or play at a high level.

"He was their guy," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were hoping he was a franchise player. If he's not a franchise player, their whole plan is gone. . . . If Embiid can't play or if he can't reach a superstar level, their plan is really in trouble."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... SY8F4Kv.99


Noel, Saric, #3 Pick this year, 4 first rounders next year. Infinite cap space.


This.

This is called optionality.

The East is the weaker of the two conferences because it has weaker management, hence an Eastern conference executive quote generally fails to impress me.

Embiid and Noel were both risk/value picks, we hot on one and there is no guarantee either way with Embiid, even if he requires more surgery he might or might not develop, the only sure things is that his development would be delayed.

If any team is capable of taking a worst case Embiid scenario hit, it is the team with all of those assets still in its arsenal.

Truthfully I am getting pretty bored with the whole Embiid thing, when we know we will know, until then I am getting back to thinking about the draft, which for me is in no way affected by Embiid's situation (because I would always have taken one of the top bigs if they fell to three, and continued with BPA after that).

The funny thing is that Embiid and Noel slipped because of injury concerns that cut down their perceived market value, while Okafor could expose a market inefficiency by slipping due to an over reaction by the league to the Warriors and others style of small ball play and copycatting that is always rampant in any pro sports league.

Embiid has never been the crux of the process, an important and high risk/huge reward piece of it, but that is why it is a process and not merely about any one player.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#378 » by SwingOnThis » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:32 pm

Time to trade with Minny for that #1 overall pick. Get KAT or Okafor and move on. Give Embiid all the time he needs to heal.
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Re: Uh oh, Embiid suffers setback per Woj 

Post#379 » by SparksFly87 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Noel is Embiid's insurance policy as a elite defender and rim protector. Having Embiid puts us over the top. We won't be ready to compete anyways so tanking next year with 3 other firsts puts us in position to land 2 top 5 lottery picks in a deep wing draft plus bring over Saric will put in the playoffs in year 4 . Exactly as expected in the 5 year plan of contention Hinkie has implemented.

Embiid
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Wing ( top 5)
Wing ( top 5)
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Post#380 » by crow » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:46 pm

I really think yall are overreacting. The dude was practicing a few weeks ago, and hasn't suffered any new injury as of late. Let's wait and see what happens rather than jumping to conclusions.

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