Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[saintEscaton]

That insistance to make the playoffs will again be our downfall

Right, because 5 years out of the playoffs isn't enough, right? You never know if you can dance unless you go to the dance. PHX will continue to be on the losing end of the FA market until we generate some relevance in the game again. That's one of the reasons PHX did so well in the past is we were always relevant.

We have not been relevant for 5 years now, and crazy as it seems, we haven't been able to attract quality FA's over that period (from other teams) We have been able to keep most of our own...That would suggest that we have an external marketing problem that is likely solved with a good playoff run. We may not win it all with the first playoff run, but we will raise some eyebrows.

Even if we somehow manage to stumble our way to the 8th seed by luck, we are almost guaranteed to be bounced in the first round. This team is not built to contend with the cream of the West and would probably be content in stealing a game as a a morale boost. We would be the least intimidating team in teh posteason and would be a a total pushover, hell the Jazz/TWolves will probably be more scarier net season. Any marquee FA who thinks that our FO lauds being embarrassed on national TV as an accomplishment would not come here.

[Saberestar]

"This is a big year for us in free agency," McDonough said. "We want to respect the draft process, but we also want to spend the proper amount of time preparing for free agency, working on any potential trades."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... te-lottery

It seems that he really wants to make changes on the roster.

[SideSwipe]

That insistance to make the playoffs will again be our downfall

Right, because 5 years out of the playoffs isn't enough, right? You never know if you can dance unless you go to the dance. PHX will continue to be on the losing end of the FA market until we generate some relevance in the game again. That's one of the reasons PHX did so well in the past is we were always relevant.

We have not been relevant for 5 years now, and crazy as it seems, we haven't been able to attract quality FA's over that period (from other teams) We have been able to keep most of our own...That would suggest that we have an external marketing problem that is likely solved with a good playoff run. We may not win it all with the first playoff run, but we will raise some eyebrows.

Even if we somehow manage to stumble our way to the 8th seed by luck, we are almost guaranteed to be bounced in the first round. This team is not built to contend with the cream of the West and would probably be content in stealing a game as a a morale boost. We would be the least intimidating team in teh posteason and would be a a total pushover, hell the Jazz/TWolves will probably be more scarier net season. Any marquee FA who thinks that our FO lauds being embarrassed on national TV as an accomplishment would not come here.

Trading for an established veteran even if outside of our preferred age pocket will cater to this without sacrificing too much of our future. We will only have 4 players under 25 going into the coming season if I am not mistaken. Warren, Len, Goodwin, Bullock. That leaves 11 spots that will be 25 or older. We can balance it out on the top end with an established vet. I would not be against grabbing Pau Gasol in the trade market if he's attainable, then adding another FA or two. I'm sure there are a few others I wouldn't mind taking a look at. Once you get someone serious, the other FA's begin to take notice.

[thamadkant]

Anyone else liking the Bucks' roster, especially hearing they are after Lopez or Chandler

C: Lopez or Chandler
PF: Parker
SF: Giannis
SG: Middleton
PG: Carter-Williams
PF/C: Henson

LONG.. LONG team... fast, athletic, defensive minded through Kidd's coaching.

If Suns dont land a PF in the draft... I'd try to get Henson (as mentioned many times before).

[saintEscaton]

Anyone else liking the Bucks' roster, especially hearing they are after Lopez or Chandler

C: Lopez or Chandler
PF: Parker
SF: Giannis
SG: Middleton
PG: Carter-Williams
PF/C: Henson

LONG.. LONG team... fast, athletic, defensive minded through Kidd's coaching.

If Suns dont land a PF in the draft... I'd try to get Henson (as mentioned many times before).

Yes minus MCW the "Jack of All Trades Master of None" swiss army knife who will never learn to shoot

[saintEscaton]

Anyone else liking the Bucks' roster, especially hearing they are after Lopez or Chandler

C: Lopez or Chandler
PF: Parker
SF: Giannis
SG: Middleton
PG: Carter-Williams
PF/C: Henson

LONG.. LONG team... fast, athletic, defensive minded through Kidd's coaching.

If Suns dont land a PF in the draft... I'd try to get Henson (as mentioned many times before).

Yes minus MCW the "Jack of All Trades Master of None" swiss army knife who will never learn to shoot even under his idol Kidd's tutelage. They should have kept BKnight imo even if wasnt the most financial thing to do

[saintEscaton]

Anyone else liking the Bucks' roster, especially hearing they are after Lopez or Chandler

C: Lopez or Chandler
PF: Parker
SF: Giannis
SG: Middleton
PG: Carter-Williams
PF/C: Henson

LONG.. LONG team... fast, athletic, defensive minded through Kidd's coaching.

If Suns dont land a PF in the draft... I'd try to get Henson (as mentioned many times before).

Yes minus MCW the "Jack of All Trades Master of None" swiss army knife who will never learn to shoot even under his idol Kidd's tutelage. They should have kept BKnight imo even if wasnt the most financially stringent thing to do

[franksredhot]

Hello! longtime lurker finally signed up huge suns fan gonna start off by sayin i'm a big supporter of McDonough the guy knows what he's doing i think the main reason he traded Isaiah Thomas was because he has his eyes on Demarcus Cousins and SAC is not interested in thomas as we all know i believe thats his plan " A " to pair Bledsoe/Cousins (however i don't think we have enough assets to acquire Cousins) Now plan B resign Knight Sign Danny Green start Warren Trade Bledsoe to Knicks for #4 draft Kristaps Porzingis

PG- Knight
SG- D.Green
SF- Warren
PF- Porzingis
C- Len

[MrMiyagi]

Hello! longtime lurker finally signed up huge suns fan gonna start off by sayin i'm a big supporter of McDonough the guy knows what he's doing i think the main reason he traded Isaiah Thomas was because he has his eyes on Demarcus Cousins and SAC is not interested in thomas as we all know i believe thats his plan " A " to pair Bledsoe/Cousins (however i don't think we have enough assets to acquire Cousins) Now plan B resign Knight Sign Danny Green start Warren Trade Bledsoe to Knicks for #4 draft Kristaps Porzingis

PG- Knight
SG- D.Green
SF- Warren
PF- Porzingis
C- Len

New York won't trade the 4 straight up for Bledsoe. Even so, I don't think it's worth it for Porzingis

[letsgosuns]

I just mentioned this in the Mo Bros thread but I am gonna say it again here because this is the probably the proper thread for it.

Salary dump Bledsoe, Tucker, and the Morris brothers which saves 32 million off the cap. After that, the Suns would only have around 10 million dollars committed to next year's cap, not counting cap holds. Then renounce all of your cap holds except for Brandon Knight which I believe is 9 million dollars. Now taking into account possibly two more rookie salaries, the Suns would have like around 22 or so million dollars on the books. The cap is around 67 million dollars so the Suns would have like 45 million dollars to spend on free agents. This is a hypothetical scenario but they could go out and sign free agents in this fashion:

Danny Green - 10-12 million per year
Demarre Carroll- 12-14 million per year
Paul Millsap- 14-16 million per year

That comes out to between 36-42 million depending on what they sign for. Let's say it is for 40 million total. Suns still have 5 million more to go out and get a couple veteran free agents such as Amare Stoudemire and bringing back Granger/Wright. Then after it is all done, the Suns go over the cap to re-sign Brandon Knight to a similar contract that Bledsoe got.

Suns new lineup could look like this:
Knight/backup (maybe rookie point guard)
D. Green/Goodwin
Carroll/Warren/Granger
Millsap/Stoudemire
Len/maybe Wright

[Ryu]

Signing role players like Danny Green and Demarre Carroll to 10+ mil per year is a nothing short of suicide. You really think we would go somewhere with that lineup? That`s treadmill team at best, with no financial flexibility.

[lilfishi22]

Hello! longtime lurker finally signed up huge suns fan gonna start off by sayin i'm a big supporter of McDonough the guy knows what he's doing i think the main reason he traded Isaiah Thomas was because he has his eyes on Demarcus Cousins and SAC is not interested in thomas as we all know i believe thats his plan " A " to pair Bledsoe/Cousins (however i don't think we have enough assets to acquire Cousins) Now plan B resign Knight Sign Danny Green start Warren Trade Bledsoe to Knicks for #4 draft Kristaps Porzingis

PG- Knight
SG- D.Green
SF- Warren
PF- Porzingis
C- Len

Always nice to see lurkers come out of the shadows and contribute

If I have one suggestion it would be to use periods in your post. I have no idea where each sentences starts and finishes

[lilfishi22]

I just mentioned this in the Mo Bros thread but I am gonna say it again here because this is the probably the proper thread for it.

Salary dump Bledsoe, Tucker, and the Morris brothers which saves 32 million off the cap. After that, the Suns would only have around 10 million dollars committed to next year's cap, not counting cap holds. Then renounce all of your cap holds except for Brandon Knight which I believe is 9 million dollars. Now taking into account possibly two more rookie salaries, the Suns would have like around 22 or so million dollars on the books. The cap is around 67 million dollars so the Suns would have like 45 million dollars to spend on free agents. This is a hypothetical scenario but they could go out and sign free agents in this fashion:

Danny Green - 10-12 million per year
Demarre Carroll- 12-14 million per year
Paul Millsap- 14-16 million per year

That comes out to between 36-42 million depending on what they sign for. Let's say it is for 40 million total. Suns still have 5 million more to go out and get a couple veteran free agents such as Amare Stoudemire and bringing back Granger/Wright. Then after it is all done, the Suns go over the cap to re-sign Brandon Knight to a similar contract that Bledsoe got.

Suns new lineup could look like this:
Knight/backup (maybe rookie point guard)
D. Green/Goodwin
Carroll/Warren/Granger
Millsap/Stoudemire
Len/maybe Wright

OK so you are serious about salary dumping some of our more valuable assets...

No one is going to sign here to play with Len, Knight and a bunch of inexperienced youngins.

[letsgosuns]

I just mentioned this in the Mo Bros thread but I am gonna say it again here because this is the probably the proper thread for it.

Salary dump Bledsoe, Tucker, and the Morris brothers which saves 32 million off the cap. After that, the Suns would only have around 10 million dollars committed to next year's cap, not counting cap holds. Then renounce all of your cap holds except for Brandon Knight which I believe is 9 million dollars. Now taking into account possibly two more rookie salaries, the Suns would have like around 22 or so million dollars on the books. The cap is around 67 million dollars so the Suns would have like 45 million dollars to spend on free agents. This is a hypothetical scenario but they could go out and sign free agents in this fashion:

Danny Green - 10-12 million per year
Demarre Carroll- 12-14 million per year
Paul Millsap- 14-16 million per year

That comes out to between 36-42 million depending on what they sign for. Let's say it is for 40 million total. Suns still have 5 million more to go out and get a couple veteran free agents such as Amare Stoudemire and bringing back Granger/Wright. Then after it is all done, the Suns go over the cap to re-sign Brandon Knight to a similar contract that Bledsoe got.

Suns new lineup could look like this:
Knight/backup (maybe rookie point guard)
D. Green/Goodwin
Carroll/Warren/Granger
Millsap/Stoudemire
Len/maybe Wright

OK so you are serious about salary dumping some of our more valuable assets...

No one is going to sign here to play with Len, Knight and a bunch of inexperienced youngins.

Ugh I just responded to you on the other thread haha. I will keep it on this one since this is the free agent thread. If the Suns did these things and went after free agents, they would have 45 million to spend on multiple players. So you can call up players and say it is not just Knight, Len, and some other young players. They could call them up and say we want all of you guys and can pay you all what you want. So they can say to Carroll and Millsap, hey we are going to pay you both what you want, come here together. Plus we are getting Danny Green too. Also, didn't Hornacek coach Carroll and Millsap in Utah? If that is true, the Suns could have a leg up on both of them in the free agent market.

[letsgosuns]

Signing role players like Danny Green and Demarre Carroll to 10+ mil per year is a nothing short of suicide. You really think we would go somewhere with that lineup? That`s treadmill team at best, with no financial flexibility.

How come? The cap is going to rise to 105 million dollars a couple years from now. 12 million dollar contracts will be like 5-7 million contracts are now. Plus what else are the Suns going to do? Keep missing out on every single free agent? The Suns are going nowhere with their current team and they know it. If not Danny Green and Carroll, okay, but the Suns have to get someone. Anyone else than what they have now. Another year of Tucker and the Morris brothers bricking so many shots and the arena will be more empty than you could ever imagine.

[tdjm]

What's the point of signing those guys though? Is that team any better than 50, maybe 55 wins tops by some sort of ridiculous fluke? Is that team beating GSW, SAS, LAC, OKC?

We're still treading water without a franchise centerpiece in that scenario. We've brought in veterans to start over the youth we have, who at least still have some miniscule outside shot of developing into a number one option.

I can't see how clearing the decks to sign free agents in this upcoming year makes us any better over the long term than continuing to draft and develop guys. It reeks of more Childress and Warrick instead of pulling the plug on it all and developing properly.

I have no issue trading Bledsoe/Tucker/Morris twins (either now, or within 1-3 years), but replacing them with similar caliber or slightly better players is inconsequential in the long haul.

[letsgosuns]

What's the point of signing those guys though? Is that team any better than 50, maybe 55 wins tops by some sort of ridiculous fluke? Is that team beating GSW, SAS, LAC, OKC?

We're still treading water without a franchise centerpiece in that scenario. We've brought in veterans to start over the youth we have, who at least still have some miniscule outside shot of developing into a number one option.

I can't see how clearing the decks to sign free agents in this upcoming year makes us any better over the long term than continuing to draft and develop guys. It reeks of more Childress and Warrick instead of pulling the plug on it all and developing properly.

I have no issue trading Bledsoe/Tucker/Morris twins (either now, or within 1-3 years), but replacing them with similar caliber or slightly better players is inconsequential in the long haul.

I will ask you one question. What scenario is plausible that allows the Suns to acquire a franchise caliber, generational type player? Because that is the only true way they will become a title contender. There are maybe a handful of those players in the league. Look at the Eastern Conference. Lebron has won the East five years in a row. What are those Eastern conference teams supposed to do? They are not going to throw their hands up and say we are all screwed as long as Lebron is in the league and it does not matter what we do because he will just beat us. However, that is the truth. As long as Lebron is healthy, he is going to keep winning the East. And those Eastern conference teams know it. Yet they keep on doing things to keep their teams competitive.

At some point you have to just have a team that fans can at least get excited about and be able to watch quality basketball. The Suns do not have quality basketball. Players like Green and Carroll might be role players, but I think they are far better role players than the role players the Suns have right now. The Suns can keep waiting for that James Harden pie in the sky trade all they want but how many years are they going to have to sit around and wait for it. I want to see some quality basketball again. Tucker and the Morris brothers do not bring that. And my biggest gripe about Bledsoe is that I do not think he brings it every night. He is very inconsistent. When I mention salary dumping though, I mean trade them for draft picks, just do not take back contracts in return.

[lilfishi22]

Ugh I just responded to you on the other thread haha. I will keep it on this one since this is the free agent thread. If the Suns did these things and went after free agents, they would have 45 million to spend on multiple players. So you can call up players and say it is not just Knight, Len, and some other young players. They could call them up and say we want all of you guys and can pay you all what you want. So they can say to Carroll and Millsap, hey we are going to pay you both what you want, come here together. Plus we are getting Danny Green too. Also, didn't Hornacek coach Carroll and Millsap in Utah? If that is true, the Suns could have a leg up on both of them in the free agent market.

But there's also the issue of attracting free agents. Why would Carroll and Millsap want to play with a significantly worse team, in the West? It's hard to bring in good/great FA without a good team already around to play with. No one wants to join a team to lose.

If you're mindset is everyone except Len/Knight is expendable then I can agree to that. But I strongly disagree with salary dumping or having a fire sale for the sake of cap space, especially when the players you're dumping are good players/great assets.

[tdjm]

I will ask you one question. What scenario is plausible that allows the Suns to acquire a franchise caliber, generational type player?

There's 3 pipelines for franchise-caliber talent - free agency, trade, or draft. Free agency is near impossible to get star talent (and it comes at disadvantageous prices since it's generally the third contract which is the most expensive one), trade is overwhelmingly unlikely, and via draft is substantially unlikely but comes with the upside of getting both the underpriced rookie contract and the underpriced second RFA contract.

For the Suns, putting together a contending nucleus is going to come through the draft, possibly supplemented by a free agent or trade, but at least some of that nucleus will have to come from the draft. Nash, STAT, and Marion was 2/3 draft, and later Nash & STAT was 1/2 draft (Nash was drafted by the Suns ofc, but is counted as a free agent due to the circumstances of his return).

The Suns are still looking for guys at least approaching Matrix/Stat levels. They will need to find them in the draft, and develop them - this may take 1 year (i.e. those guys are already on the roster) or it may take 3+ years of continued searching. This process is painful, but necessary. That's the nature of rebuilding, and rebuilding probably shouldn't be short circuited by signing an abundance of role players in free agency.

At some point you have to just have a team that fans can at least get excited about and be able to watch quality basketball.

It's nice that you think so, but if the Suns FO felt the same way, they should be fired immediately and replaced with a front office who is dedicated to putting together a championship team in 5-10 years.

Regardless, building a championship team is going to be ugly and it is going to take time. Once again, this is called rebuilding and shouldn't be short circuited by signing role players in free agency.

When I mention salary dumping though, I mean trade them for draft picks, just do not take back contracts in return.

Yeah, this goes without saying

[Mr-Al]

If not Danny Green and Carroll, okay, but the Suns have to get someone. Anyone else than what they have now. Another year of Tucker and the Morris brothers bricking so many shots and the arena will be more empty than you could ever imagine.

Thankfully this isn't how GM's think