Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[letsgosuns]

Ugh I just responded to you on the other thread haha. I will keep it on this one since this is the free agent thread. If the Suns did these things and went after free agents, they would have 45 million to spend on multiple players. So you can call up players and say it is not just Knight, Len, and some other young players. They could call them up and say we want all of you guys and can pay you all what you want. So they can say to Carroll and Millsap, hey we are going to pay you both what you want, come here together. Plus we are getting Danny Green too. Also, didn't Hornacek coach Carroll and Millsap in Utah? If that is true, the Suns could have a leg up on both of them in the free agent market.

But there's also the issue of attracting free agents. Why would Carroll and Millsap want to play with a significantly worse team, in the West? It's hard to bring in good/great FA without a good team already around to play with. No one wants to join a team to lose.

If you're mindset is everyone except Len/Knight is expendable then I can agree to that. But I strongly disagree with salary dumping or having a fire sale for the sake of cap space, especially when the players you're dumping are good players/great assets.

If Suns have 45 million in cap space, then they can outbid other teams for certain players' services. I still believe Phoenix is a top choice for players when it comes to the training staff, organizational history, and city/weather during the season. Suns are a mid-market team, not small market. Biggest thing is the money honestly. Money equals respect in the league. The Suns will have to overpay right now to get players but in a couple of years when the cap skyrockets, it will not look bad. I am not dead set on Green, Carroll, or Millsap anyway. They are just ideas. Go for a bigger player like Aldridge, Gasol, or DeAndre if you think you can get them.

[letsgosuns]

I will ask you one question. What scenario is plausible that allows the Suns to acquire a franchise caliber, generational type player?

There's 3 pipelines for franchise-caliber talent - free agency, trade, or draft. Free agency is near impossible to get star talent (and it comes at disadvantageous prices since it's generally the third contract which is the most expensive one), trade is overwhelmingly unlikely, and via draft is substantially unlikely but comes with the upside of getting both the underpriced rookie contract and the underpriced second RFA contract.

For the Suns, putting together a contending nucleus is going to come through the draft, possibly supplemented by a free agent or trade, but at least some of that nucleus will have to come from the draft. Nash, STAT, and Marion was 2/3 draft, and later Nash & STAT was 1/2 draft (Nash was drafted by the Suns ofc, but is counted as a free agent due to the circumstances of his return).

The Suns are still looking for guys at least approaching Matrix/Stat levels. They will need to find them in the draft, and develop them - this may take 1 year (i.e. those guys are already on the roster) or it may take 3+ years of continued searching. This process is painful, but necessary. That's the nature of rebuilding, and rebuilding probably shouldn't be short circuited by signing an abundance of role players in free agency.

At some point you have to just have a team that fans can at least get excited about and be able to watch quality basketball.

It's nice that you think so, but if the Suns FO felt the same way, they should be fired immediately and replaced with a front office who is dedicated to putting together a championship team in 5-10 years.

Regardless, building a championship team is going to be ugly and it is going to take time. Once again, this is called rebuilding and shouldn't be short circuited by signing role players in free agency.

When I mention salary dumping though, I mean trade them for draft picks, just do not take back contracts in return.

Yeah, this goes without saying

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year. They were both picked 9th by the Suns. Nash was picked 15th but it took him 8 years before he won mvp and honestly it came out of nowhere. The two best draft picks in years were Wiggins and Parker and last year the Suns won 48 games when everyone thought they would tank for a top two pick. They ended up with the last pick of the lottery. This year they took a major step back and wasted their season by singing Isaiah Thomas in the first place. These moves are not conducive to rebuilding like you say.

You are seriously giving the Suns a 5-10 year window to become a championship contender and saying that if the gm thinks like me they should be fired immediately? If this team misses the playoffs for at least five more years, they will have no fans left. Wow they have already missed the playoffs for five straight years. If they do not make the playoffs in the next year or two I expect Sarver to fire everyone. How much more can he put up with. Lon Baby was a disaster and thankfully he is gone now. Cannot believe you want to give the front office a 10 year window to win a title. This is sports. It is all about right now. I understand sustained success but you have to start with success first before you can sustain it.

There ain't nothing the Suns can do to win a championship right now if they do not have Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden, or whoever else you think the top players in the league are. They do not currently have a top five player. Only teams with top five players are title contenders and they are not available. And the Suns are not bad enough to get a top three pick. Their best chance for success is hoping Alex Len turns into the best center in the league. As crazy as it sounds, he is truly the key to the team. He was the fifth pick in the draft and is a center with enormous potential. What else do they have?

[Sunsdeuce]

All I have to say is thanks be to God that doc rivers is not the Suns GM. Lance Stephenson, lol, have fun with that.

[tdjm]

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year.

I agree, hence why I'd rather the Suns not blow their load by signing a trillion roleplayers in free agency and instead play the youth they have. Either one or more of them turns out to be a diamond in the rough, or they don't, in which case you're probably bad and you keep searching in the draft at a higher slot. I'm also displeased with some of the FO's dealings and direction away from this, I just choose to not complain endlessly about it.

You are seriously giving the Suns a 5-10 year window to become a championship contender and saying that if the gm thinks like me they should be fired immediately? If this team misses the playoffs for at least five more years, they will have no fans left.

Yes, I didn't stutter. If a GM's prime motive is "I need to put an exciting team on the floor", then congratulations, fired instantly. It's the GM's goal to put together a competitive, championship level team, nothing else. Sometimes, this requires being really bad in the short term to maximize the potential to compete in the long term, which is fine. The goal is still to assemble a team that can compete at the highest level within some threshold of years. If that team is slow and boring, fine. Fast and exciting, fine. Winning over the long term is what matters, not excitement.

Also, it 100000000000000000% doesn't matter if you lose fans in the short term, especially with a team like Phoenix that has a really weak fanbase, even in the good times. Fans show up to winning teams. Fans buy merch of winning teams. Winning draws bandwagoners. Losing in the short term is mostly inconsequential if you compete in the long term, you'll make that up and more.

Take OKC for example. At the start of the year, when Durant and Westbrook were injured, they drew small crowds (and drew small crowds when they were losing badly in Seattle). When they came back? Full crowds. Durant gear is everywhere too, I see it when I travel for work in pretty much any state. Fun anecdote, speaking of OKC: I lived and worked in Zurich this summer, and saw three jerseys in the financial district: Jordan, Kobe,...and Durant. Winning packs the seats, and winning sells stuff. The short term does not matter.

There ain't nothing the Suns can do to win a championship right now if they do not have Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden, or whoever else you think the top players in the league are. They do not have a top five players. Only teams with top five players are
title contenders and they are not available. And the Suns are not bad enough to get a top three pick.

Hence why they should rebuild responsibly instead of blow their free agency signing Danny Green and Carroll.

The best chance for success is hoping Alex Len turns into the best center in the league. As crazy as it sounds, he is truly the key to the team. He was the fifth pick in the draft and is a center with enormous potential. What else do they have?

Sadly, I don't think Len has the equity to be a top player, and I'd argue that the Suns best chance for getting a #1 option as the roster is currently constructed is for TJ Warren to develop into a superpowered version of Cedric Ceballos, but that's nearly as drepressingly unlikely as Len becoming a top center good enough to matter as more than a roleplayer in a smallball league.

[bwgood77]

Hello! longtime lurker finally signed up huge suns fan gonna start off by sayin i'm a big supporter of McDonough the guy knows what he's doing i think the main reason he traded Isaiah Thomas was because he has his eyes on Demarcus Cousins and SAC is not interested in thomas as we all know i believe thats his plan " A " to pair Bledsoe/Cousins (however i don't think we have enough assets to acquire Cousins) Now plan B resign Knight Sign Danny Green start Warren Trade Bledsoe to Knicks for #4 draft Kristaps Porzingis

PG- Knight
SG- D.Green
SF- Warren
PF- Porzingis
C- Len

Welcome! I'd love that lineup if Porzingis ends up being all he has been hyped to be (a Dirk-like player).

[bwgood77]

I just mentioned this in the Mo Bros thread but I am gonna say it again here because this is the probably the proper thread for it.

Salary dump Bledsoe, Tucker, and the Morris brothers which saves 32 million off the cap. After that, the Suns would only have around 10 million dollars committed to next year's cap, not counting cap holds. Then renounce all of your cap holds except for Brandon Knight which I believe is 9 million dollars. Now taking into account possibly two more rookie salaries, the Suns would have like around 22 or so million dollars on the books. The cap is around 67 million dollars so the Suns would have like 45 million dollars to spend on free agents. This is a hypothetical scenario but they could go out and sign free agents in this fashion:

Danny Green - 10-12 million per year
Demarre Carroll- 12-14 million per year
Paul Millsap- 14-16 million per year

That comes out to between 36-42 million depending on what they sign for. Let's say it is for 40 million total. Suns still have 5 million more to go out and get a couple veteran free agents such as Amare Stoudemire and bringing back Granger/Wright. Then after it is all done, the Suns go over the cap to re-sign Brandon Knight to a similar contract that Bledsoe got.

Suns new lineup could look like this:
Knight/backup (maybe rookie point guard)
D. Green/Goodwin
Carroll/Warren/Granger
Millsap/Stoudemire
Len/maybe Wright

I'd love to go after all the guys you mention, so solid plan if they would sign, but you can't really dump guys in hopes you can sign them. You have to be pretty assured they will sign before doing that. And I certainly wouldn't dump Bledsoe or Kieff for nothing.

[bwgood77]

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year.

I take it you don't think Kawhi Leonard is close to their level? Draymond Green was drafted 35th. Tons of good to great players were drafted late. Marc Gasol (48th), Zach Randolph (19th), Ginobili, Tony Parker....the list goes on.

Warren looks great to me. Better than some ahead of him. You've gotta have a little faith and hope.

[letsgosuns]

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year.

I take it you don't think Kawhi Leonard is close to their level? Draymond Green was drafted 35th. Tons of good to great players were drafted late. Marc Gasol (48th), Zach Randolph (19th), Ginobili, Tony Parker....the list goes on.

Warren looks great to me. Better than some ahead of him. You've gotta have a little faith and hope.

No you are right. I agree you can find great players anywhere in the draft. I just think you have a better chance of building a team around a player you pick at the top of the draft rather than a player you pick towards the end of the lottery or later.

[letsgosuns]

Tdjm, you are a very patient person. I consider myself to be patient but you allowing a ten year window to be a championship caliber team is a very long time. Three to five years is one thing but ten years is something else. I would guess a gm would be fired long before the ten years is up if they do not build at least a competitive team much sooner than ten years.

[lilfishi22]

But there's also the issue of attracting free agents. Why would Carroll and Millsap want to play with a significantly worse team, in the West? It's hard to bring in good/great FA without a good team already around to play with. No one wants to join a team to lose.

If you're mindset is everyone except Len/Knight is expendable then I can agree to that. But I strongly disagree with salary dumping or having a fire sale for the sake of cap space, especially when the players you're dumping are good players/great assets.

If Suns have 45 million in cap space, then they can outbid other teams for certain players' services. I still believe Phoenix is a top choice for players when it comes to the training staff, organizational history, and city/weather during the season. Suns are a mid-market team, not small market. Biggest thing is the money honestly. Money equals respect in the league. The Suns will have to overpay right now to get players but in a couple of years when the cap skyrockets, it will not look bad. I am not dead set on Green, Carroll, or Millsap anyway. They are just ideas. Go for a bigger player like Aldridge, Gasol, or DeAndre if you think you can get them.

Outbidding doesn't necessarily mean it's a good allocation of resources. Yes we're bringing in a free agent but we're doing so at a higher cost because the FA didn't really want to be here to begin with. Throwing money at a problem isn't always going the solution to everything.

Regarding Phoenix being a "great" FA destination, it might have been true in the past but I think we're in a bit of a slump as far as that goes. Hill joined us for our training staff but he also signed with us at a time when were still competitive. I also think with the younger generation, organisational history isn't as important as it was back 10-20 years ago. FA only have to look at what we've done in the past 4-5 seasons and completely disregard our past accomplishments (especially with new management). I think FA's are much more interested in winning on a good team than being the best player and creating a legacy on a bad team. Now it may very well be the case we have to overpay for even average FA because Phoenix isn't particularly attractive at this moment but that kind brings up my original point. If we're overpaying for average talent then why salary dump/fire-sell your above average talent on good deals (Mobros/Bledsoe/Tucker).

I'd rather have great assets than cap space is what I'm saying. We were a player in FA last season and we went for the big fish and we only came away with a resigned Bledsoe and Isaiah Thomas. Cap space isn't enough nowadays to attract free agents and with the cap going up, more teams are going to bid for their services so FA's have more choice of team.

[StarMaker]

You guys aren't interested in Khris Middleton.

[letsgosuns]

But there's also the issue of attracting free agents. Why would Carroll and Millsap want to play with a significantly worse team, in the West? It's hard to bring in good/great FA without a good team already around to play with. No one wants to join a team to lose.

If you're mindset is everyone except Len/Knight is expendable then I can agree to that. But I strongly disagree with salary dumping or having a fire sale for the sake of cap space, especially when the players you're dumping are good players/great assets.

If Suns have 45 million in cap space, then they can outbid other teams for certain players' services. I still believe Phoenix is a top choice for players when it comes to the training staff, organizational history, and city/weather during the season. Suns are a mid-market team, not small market. Biggest thing is the money honestly. Money equals respect in the league. The Suns will have to overpay right now to get players but in a couple of years when the cap skyrockets, it will not look bad. I am not dead set on Green, Carroll, or Millsap anyway. They are just ideas. Go for a bigger player like Aldridge, Gasol, or DeAndre if you think you can get them.

Outbidding doesn't necessarily mean it's a good allocation of resources. Yes we're bringing in a free agent but we're doing so at a higher cost because the FA didn't really want to be here to begin with. Throwing money at a problem isn't always going the solution to everything.

Regarding Phoenix being a "great" FA destination, it might have been true in the past but I think we're in a bit of a slump as far as that goes. Hill joined us for our training staff but he also signed with us at a time when were still competitive. I also think with the younger generation, organisational history isn't as important as it was back 10-20 years ago. FA only have to look at what we've done in the past 4-5 seasons and completely disregard our past accomplishments (especially with new management). I think FA's are much more interested in winning on a good team than being the best player and creating a legacy on a bad team. Now it may very well be the case we have to overpay for even average FA because Phoenix isn't particularly attractive at this moment but that kind brings up my original point. If we're overpaying for average talent then why salary dump/fire-sell your above average talent on good deals (Mobros/Bledsoe/Tucker).

I'd rather have great assets than cap space is what I'm saying. We were a player in FA last season and we went for the big fish and we only came away with a resigned Bledsoe and Isaiah Thomas. Cap space isn't enough nowadays to attract free agents and with the cap going up, more teams are going to bid for their services so FA's have more choice of team.

I see what you are saying and I have also argued that the Suns have not gotten a premier free agent since they signed Steve Nash when the Colangelos were still involved with the team. However I am hoping the Suns will have better luck this coming offseason and get some players. I also do not want to overpay players like Green, Carroll, or someone else. Although with the expected cap increase to 90 million next offseason and then 105 million the following year, a slight overpay now will not look bad in a couple years. I also would go after the big time free agents that are available but I doubt they would come here.

By the way, as you probably know, I do not not consider the Morris brothers good assets. I think Marcus is terrible and the only good thing about Markieff is that he is a good mid-range shooter who hits a lot of clutch shots. He is a poor rebounder, not a good defender, an average passer, and wildly inconsistent. And of course he has all of the off the court issues as well. Tucker is a decent asset for a competing team that needs an extra wing defender off the bench. Bledsoe is the best asset in my opinion and I would trade him for a top five pick only. I think he is too good to give up on. Yet the reason I entertain it is because I think the Suns can use Knight as his replacement. I just really do not want them to go into next season with a Bledsoe/Knight backcourt because they would be so undersized.

[Sunsdeuce]

Outbidding doesn't necessarily mean it's a good allocation of resources. Yes we're bringing in a free agent but we're doing so at a higher cost because the FA didn't really want to be here to begin with. Throwing money at a problem isn't always going the solution to everything.

moment but that kind brings up my original point. If we're overpaying for average talent then why salary dump/fire-sell your above average talent on good deals (Mobros/Bledsoe/Tucker).

I'd rather have great assets than cap space is what I'm saying. We were a player in FA last season and we went for the big fish and we only came away with a resigned Bledsoe and Isaiah Thomas. Cap space isn't enough nowadays to attract free agents and with the cap going up, more teams are going to bid for their services so FA's have more choice of team.

I see what you are saying and I have also argued that the Suns have not gotten a premier free agent since they signed Steve Nash when the Colangelos were still involved with the team. However I am hoping the Suns will have better luck this coming offseason and get some players. I also do not want to overpay players like Green, Carroll, or someone else. Although with the expected cap increase to 90 million next offseason and then 105 million the following year, a slight overpay now will not look bad in a couple years. I also would go after the big time free agents that are available but I doubt they would come here.

By the way, as you probably know, I do not not consider the Morris brothers good assets. I think Marcus is terrible and the only good thing about Markieff is that he is a good mid-range shooter who hits a lot of clutch shots. He is a poor rebounder, not a good defender, an average passer, and wildly inconsistent. And of course he has all of the off the court issues as well. Tucker is a decent asset for a competing team that needs an extra wing defender off the bench. Bledsoe is the best asset in my opinion and I would trade him for a top five pick only. I think he is too good to give up on. Yet the reason I entertain it is because I think the Suns can use Knight as his replacement. I just really do not want them to go into next season with a Bledsoe/Knight backcourt because they would be so undersized.

If you ask any non-suns fan what players they want, most will have a hard time even naming the current suns players. The suns just dont have much as far as assets (players wise). The suns have alot of role players but nothing that is close to a star player or franchise player. Alex Len with his potential could net the most assets in return. Most teams dont want a turnover prone/bad shooting point guard with a hefty contract so that limits Bledsoe's value. If im the knicks, lakers, wolves, or 76ers, Im sure the hell am not giving up my current draft pick for Bledsoe. He just isnt going to net you a top 10 pick. Tucker is probably worth an early second round pick. The morris brothers have some talent but its hard to dump troubled players. Goodwin is overhyped and hasnt produced jack. He is all talk (from him and the organization) but nothing has translated. Warren.....who knows about this kid.

Currently and realistically there isnt a single player on the suns roster to build around. Most if not all are simply role players. Len has the most upside but has had injury after injury.

Drafting 11-16 every year is going to destroy this franchise (not that it isnt already a shell of its former glory self) or any franchise. So so so so unwise to continue drafting in that position. Your chances of turning your organization around with a 1-5 are tripled compared to drafting 11-16. People can bring up diamonds in the rough all day such as Kwahi L or Gasol in the second round but lets be real. Your likelihood of finding those is about the same percentage as the suns had in the draft lottery. There is a reason draft picks 1-5 are so valuable.

Basically I have to agree with everything you wrote (not so much bledsoe).

[td00]

Gotta ask here.....why would Millsap or Carroll leave ATL where they will get a good deal and come West where they might not even make the playoffs? I think Bud gets both to stay, and no cap worries in the ATL with new ownership.
I like the way you guys think re: Millsap and Carroll though; they are huge to the success of the Hawks and it will show this summer.

[letsgosuns]

Gotta ask here.....why would Millsap or Carroll leave ATL where they will get a good deal and come West where they might not even make the playoffs? I think Bud gets both to stay, and no cap worries in the ATL with new ownership.
I like the way you guys think re: Millsap and Carroll though; they are huge to the success of the Hawks and it will show this summer.

No reason in particular. I brainstormed their names because one of the guys on the radio in Phoenix said he heard the Suns were extremely interested in DeMarre Carroll and Danny Green. He used to be right about everything involving the Suns but has not been since Ryan McDonough took over as gm so who knows. I threw in Paul Millsap's name because the Suns need an upgrade at the starting power forward spot. I also mentioned the ideas because I believe Hornacek coached Carroll and Millsap in Utah so I thought they might be interested in playing for him again. Furthermore, I saw articles that the Hawks were no longer convinced that re-singing them both was a sure thing because of the money they will probably get. Overall, those are the reasons. Nothing else. I would not be surprised if they both stay in Atlanta.

[Damkac]

Spoiler:

What's the point of signing those guys though? Is that team any better than 50, maybe 55 wins tops by some sort of ridiculous fluke? Is that team beating GSW, SAS, LAC, OKC?

We're still treading water without a franchise centerpiece in that scenario. We've brought in veterans to start over the youth we have, who at least still have some miniscule outside shot of developing into a number one option.

I can't see how clearing the decks to sign free agents in this upcoming year makes us any better over the long term than continuing to draft and develop guys. It reeks of more Childress and Warrick instead of pulling the plug on it all and developing properly.

I have no issue trading Bledsoe/Tucker/Morris twins (either now, or within 1-3 years), but replacing them with similar caliber or slightly better players is inconsequential in the long haul.

I will ask you one question. What scenario is plausible that allows the Suns to acquire a franchise caliber, generational type player?

There's 3 pipelines for franchise-caliber talent - free agency, trade, or draft. Free agency is near impossible to get star talent (and it comes at disadvantageous prices since it's generally the third contract which is the most expensive one), trade is overwhelmingly unlikely, and via draft is substantially unlikely but comes with the upside of getting both the underpriced rookie contract and the underpriced second RFA contract.

For the Suns, putting together a contending nucleus is going to come through the draft, possibly supplemented by a free agent or trade, but at least some of that nucleus will have to come from the draft. Nash, STAT, and Marion was 2/3 draft, and later Nash & STAT was 1/2 draft (Nash was drafted by the Suns ofc, but is counted as a free agent due to the circumstances of his return).

The Suns are still looking for guys at least approaching Matrix/Stat levels. They will need to find them in the draft, and develop them - this may take 1 year (i.e. those guys are already on the roster) or it may take 3+ years of continued searching. This process is painful, but necessary. That's the nature of rebuilding, and rebuilding probably shouldn't be short circuited by signing an abundance of role players in free agency.

At some point you have to just have a team that fans can at least get excited about and be able to watch quality basketball.

It's nice that you think so, but if the Suns FO felt the same way, they should be fired immediately and replaced with a front office who is dedicated to putting together a championship team in 5-10 years.

Regardless, building a championship team is going to be ugly and it is going to take time. Once again, this is called rebuilding and shouldn't be short circuited by signing role players in free agency.

When I mention salary dumping though, I mean trade them for draft picks, just do not take back contracts in return.

Yeah, this goes without saying

Look at the Eastern Conference. Lebron has won the East five years in a row. What are those Eastern conference teams supposed to do? They are not going to throw their hands up and say we are all screwed as long as Lebron is in the league and it does not matter what we do because he will just beat us. However, that is the truth. As long as Lebron is healthy, he is going to keep winning the East. And those Eastern conference teams know it. Yet they keep on doing things to keep their teams competitive.

At least thay can fight for conference finals as there is just one LeBron.
In the west you got GSW, Spurs, Rockets, Clippers, OKC, Memphis all much better than current Suns team (if healthy).
In the east you can have average team and still get to the playoffs. In the west just to get to the playoffs you need top 10 team in the league.

Why we are talking about getting role players (that may not look so good outside their good teams) when we don't have leader? You get your star first and then think about surrounding him with good role players not otherwise.

[letsgosuns]

I do not know what star is available the Suns could get. It took two number one picks to get Kevin Love with no guarantee he will re-sign. The Suns have nothing like that to offer in a trade.

[AtheJ415]

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year.

I take it you don't think Kawhi Leonard is close to their level? Draymond Green was drafted 35th. Tons of good to great players were drafted late. Marc Gasol (48th), Zach Randolph (19th), Ginobili, Tony Parker....the list goes on.

Warren looks great to me. Better than some ahead of him. You've gotta have a little faith and hope.

Kobe Bryant and Karl Malone were 13th picks. Steve Nash wasn't exactly a top 5 pick also.

[saintEscaton]

It is nearly impossible to get players like Marion or Stoudemire when you keep picking 13th-14th every year.

I take it you don't think Kawhi Leonard is close to their level? Draymond Green was drafted 35th. Tons of good to great players were drafted late. Marc Gasol (48th), Zach Randolph (19th), Ginobili, Tony Parker....the list goes on.

Warren looks great to me. Better than some ahead of him. You've gotta have a little faith and hope.

Kobe Bryant and Karl Malone were 13th picks. Steve Nash wasn't exactly a top 5 pick also.

Beating a dead horse here..... McDuh might have the personnel accolades as a scout (okay congratz he pulled one over us by stealing Rondo when he was with the Celts although that was probably mostly Ainge) but I simply don't trust the talent evaluation abilities of our FO (recall we passed on Kawhi for Queef) nor do we foster a stable environment that is conducive to player development. Only a slight step from our glory days where we would deal away draft picks for straight cash/cap releif or as an incentive for teams to take players on bad contracts (after the departure of Colangelo). These bad habits contributed to a dearth of talent that left us with no centerpieces worth building around because during prime SSOL rooks were thought of as financial burdens and would never find the light of the court and were essentially relegated to being career DLeageurs(most of them were,ahem Alondo Tucker?)

[alphagorilla]

how committed are bulls to derrick rose? I would roll the dice and give McD huge balls credit if we could get him. Pair him up with Len, could be a dangerous duo.