Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[thricethefun]

I figure, if nothing else, this trade makes Pierce less likely to bolt for the Clippers. The Clippers now need to use their MLE on a big, not Paul Pierce.

Don't they need a small forward now with Barnes gone? Damn I really wanted to get Stephenson for Nene somehow.

[gtn130]

If Milwaukee gets the right guy, you could make a case for them to be a top 5 seed. AsikMonroe won't be coming there, Asik won't move the needle. Gasol I think stays put but Lope on that team? 50 win potential

If Jabari is completely healthy and playing well and they bench MCW, they'll win > 50 games. If MCW plays big minutes next year, they'll win like 44.

Jabari would have to be considerably better then advertised for them to win 50 plus. That and the ACL injury kinda sucks so early in his career. He'll recover it isn't like Jabari is phenomenal athlete to begin with.

The key is benching MCW

[nate33]

I figure, if nothing else, this trade makes Pierce less likely to bolt for the Clippers. The Clippers now need to use their MLE on a big, not Paul Pierce.

Don't they need a small forward now with Barnes gone? Damn I really wanted to get Stephenson for Nene somehow.

My guess is Stephenson plays small forward for them. He's a pretty big guy. They do need a backup SF, but not as much as they need a backup big. They only have one MLE to work with, I think they'll spend it on a big. If Pierce wants to play there, he's probably going to have to take the BAE.

[fishercob]

What are thoughts on the Clippers trading for Stephenson?

Seems like a good move(but risky) for a team without many other avenues for significant improvement.

Very little downside for the Clips. Hawes wasn't playing and Barnes should be replaceable at his age (more on him in a minute). If Lance turns into an epic disaster, they just send him home and his contract comes off the books after this year. Hardly ideal, but doesn't screw them long term.

They get a few forms of upside. They get a still very young player who may still figure out how to be a very good player -- athletic, physical, and able to initiate offense. They also get a $9M expiring contract. Since they'll never have cap space, they could well use Lance at the deadline to net an expensive player from a team trying to clear cap space for next summer (Channing Frye, Taj Gibson, Faried, Jason Thompson).

Hawes is an interesting get for Charlotte. He sucked for LA but was ok the year before. Next summer his contract becomes a pretty decent value. Jefferson (who just opted in), Hawes, Zeller, and Vonleh are an interestingly diverse frontcourt foursome. And if Al leaves next summer, having Hawes on board could help hold down the fort while Vonleh develops.

Matt Barnes, who no one likes, is an interesting free agent. He has lost a step, but remains a pretty useful player. Much as it pains me to say it, he'd be an ideal fit in Cleveland as an upgrade over Miller, Jones, and Marion. He'd also be a nice fit here as an upgrade to Rasual Butler, but don't see him coming here unless we overpay (but what do I know).

[Ruzious]

If Jabari is completely healthy and playing well and they bench MCW, they'll win > 50 games. If MCW plays big minutes next year, they'll win like 44.

Jabari would have to be considerably better then advertised for them to win 50 plus. That and the ACL injury kinda sucks so early in his career. He'll recover it isn't like Jabari is phenomenal athlete to begin with.

The key is benching MCW

Bench him in favor of who? Ennis and Bayless aren't the answer. It might make sense to actually get someone better before they bench MCW.

[Ruzious]

What are thoughts on the Clippers trading for Stephenson?

Seems like a good move(but risky) for a team without many other avenues for significant improvement.

Very little downside for the Clips. Hawes wasn't playing and Barnes should be replaceable at his age (more on him in a minute). If Lance turns into an epic disaster, they just send him home and his contract comes off the books after this year. Hardly ideal, but doesn't screw them long term.

They get a few forms of upside. They get a still very young player who may still figure out how to be a very good player -- athletic, physical, and able to initiate offense. They also get a $9M expiring contract. Since they'll never have cap space, they could well use Lance at the deadline to net an expensive player from a team trying to clear cap space for next summer (Channing Frye, Taj Gibson, Faried, Jason Thompson).

Hawes is an interesting get for Charlotte. He sucked for LA but was ok the year before. Next summer his contract becomes a pretty decent value. Jefferson (who just opted in), Hawes, Zeller, and Vonleh are an interestingly diverse frontcourt foursome. And if Al leaves next summer, having Hawes on board could help hold down the fort while Vonleh develops.

Matt Barnes, who no one likes, is an interesting free agent. He has lost a step, but remains a pretty useful player. Much as it pains me to say it, he'd be an ideal fit in Cleveland as an upgrade over Miller, Jones, and Marion. He'd also be a nice fit here as an upgrade to Rasual Butler, but don't see him coming here unless we overpay (but what do I know).

It doesn't hurt them long-term, but can they afford to waste another season? I don't know what I would have done, but depending on Stephenson to be my starting 3 when I'm fighting for a championship doesn't seem like a high percentage move to me.

[fishercob]

What are thoughts on the Clippers trading for Stephenson?

Seems like a good move(but risky) for a team without many other avenues for significant improvement.

Very little downside for the Clips. Hawes wasn't playing and Barnes should be replaceable at his age (more on him in a minute). If Lance turns into an epic disaster, they just send him home and his contract comes off the books after this year. Hardly ideal, but doesn't screw them long term.

They get a few forms of upside. They get a still very young player who may still figure out how to be a very good player -- athletic, physical, and able to initiate offense. They also get a $9M expiring contract. Since they'll never have cap space, they could well use Lance at the deadline to net an expensive player from a team trying to clear cap space for next summer (Channing Frye, Taj Gibson, Faried, Jason Thompson).

Hawes is an interesting get for Charlotte. He sucked for LA but was ok the year before. Next summer his contract becomes a pretty decent value. Jefferson (who just opted in), Hawes, Zeller, and Vonleh are an interestingly diverse frontcourt foursome. And if Al leaves next summer, having Hawes on board could help hold down the fort while Vonleh develops.

Matt Barnes, who no one likes, is an interesting free agent. He has lost a step, but remains a pretty useful player. Much as it pains me to say it, he'd be an ideal fit in Cleveland as an upgrade over Miller, Jones, and Marion. He'd also be a nice fit here as an upgrade to Rasual Butler, but don't see him coming here unless we overpay (but what do I know).

It doesn't hurt them long-term, but can they afford to waste another season? I don't know what I would have done, but depending on Stephenson to be my starting 3 when I'm fighting for a championship doesn't seem like a high percentage move to me.

I don't disagree with your assessment. I just think that underscores how screwed they were and therefore how desperate a situation they were in -- not necessarily that this is a bad move.

[Ruzious]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

[nate33]

I think they're betting that Stephenson can be a much better player if placed in the right role. He has talent. It's a high risk/high reward gamble. Stephenson is only 24, he can play D, and he was once a half-decent 3-point shooter. Maybe he can thrive in a lesser usage role as a 3&D player. That said, I have no idea what happened to his shot in Charlotte. If he continues to be the awful 3-point shooter he was last year, then this is a real bad move.

Can the Clippers add Barnes with the BAE after Charlotte cuts him?

[nate33]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

They'd need the MLE to afford Pierce and then they'd be stuck with Hawes as their only credible backup big. They'd rather use the MLE and try to get a different big. They believe Lance + MLE big is better than Hawes + Pierce.

[Ruzious]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

They'd need the MLE to afford Pierce and then they'd be stuck with Hawes as their only credible backup big. They'd rather use the MLE and try to get a different big. They believe Lance + MLE big is better than Hawes + Pierce.

Hawes being part of the trade was part of the reason I questioned it.

[nate33]

We saw how lousy Hawes was in LA. Maybe there's a personality conflict, or a simple issue of bad fit chemistry-wise. But whatever the case, it's pretty clear that LA really believed that Hawes wasn't helping them and wasn't going to help them.

[dobrojim]

I think they're betting that Stephenson can be a much better player if placed in the right role. He has talent. It's a high risk/high reward gamble. Stephenson is only 24, he can play D, and he was once a half-decent 3-point shooter. Maybe he can thrive in a lesser usage role as a 3&D player. That said, I have no idea what happened to his shot in Charlotte. If he continues to be the awful 3-point shooter he was last year, then this is a real bad move.

Can the Clippers add Barnes with the BAE after Charlotte cuts him?

I thought LS was in the first year of a multi-year deal with CHA. He was just
in IND the year before. But agree, it's a risky move but maybe it works out if
he rediscovers his stroke from downtown.

[LyricalRico]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

They'd need the MLE to afford Pierce and then they'd be stuck with Hawes as their only credible backup big. They'd rather use the MLE and try to get a different big. They believe Lance + MLE big is better than Hawes + Pierce.

Interesting. Doc chooses to use the MLE on Hawes over Pierce last offseason, and now essentially picks Stephenson over Pierce. If there's no spot for Pierce in LA, does that mean he's more likely to stay in DC?

[fishercob]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

They'd need the MLE to afford Pierce and then they'd be stuck with Hawes as their only credible backup big. They'd rather use the MLE and try to get a different big. They believe Lance + MLE big is better than Hawes + Pierce.

Interesting. Doc chooses to use the MLE on Hawes over Pierce last offseason, and now essentially picks Stephenson over Pierce. If there's no spot for Pierce in LA, does that mean he's more likely to stay in DC?

Keep in mind that the Pierce to the Clippers speculation all came from a published report (Aldirdge?) that there was an expectation among multiple league execs that Pierce would end up in LA. Pierce hasn't given any indications at all that he's interested.

As wonderful as Pierce is, he doesn't really address any of LA's needs. Given their scarce resources, I'd be surprised if he ended up there. For him to do so, I think it would take convincing him to take the veteran's minimum -- maybe the BAE. Either way, he'd be taking a huge paycut to play for a team that may have a tougher road to the finals than his current one.

[nate33]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

They'd need the MLE to afford Pierce and then they'd be stuck with Hawes as their only credible backup big. They'd rather use the MLE and try to get a different big. They believe Lance + MLE big is better than Hawes + Pierce.

Interesting. Doc chooses to use the MLE on Hawes over Pierce last offseason, and now essentially picks Stephenson over Pierce. If there's no spot for Pierce in LA, does that mean he's more likely to stay in DC?

I really hope so. Pierce is perfect for us next year. Veteran leadership for the youngsters; he'll play limited minutes so Porter continues to develop, and he's an extra wing that we can use in small ball during crunch time. Overall, he can probably average just 20 minutes a game or so, and take about 10 games off over the course of the season to keep fresh. Then we dust him off for the playoffs and play a lot more small ball. And he's an expiring contract.

[gambitx777]

I love the lance trade for the clips, He is basically an expiring deal since the team has an option on him in 2016. If he plays well enough and it all works they can keep him. Its a good play to clear money in 2016, while having a chance of getting a pretty good player.

[dckingsfan]

Well, why wouldn't they simply sign Pierce rather than make that trade?

Am guessing that means they don't think they are getting Pierce?

[gtn130]

Jabari would have to be considerably better then advertised for them to win 50 plus. That and the ACL injury kinda sucks so early in his career. He'll recover it isn't like Jabari is phenomenal athlete to begin with.

The key is benching MCW

Bench him in favor of who? Ennis and Bayless aren't the answer. It might make sense to actually get someone better before they bench MCW.

Bench MCW literally in favor of anyone. Bucks were significantly better with Brandon Knight, and nearly every Bayless lineup with a passable sample outperformed nearly every MCW lineup. It's not close. MCW is one of the most overrated player in the NBA. He kills offenses, and Hinkie was quite sharp in trading him before his value collapsed.

Show me a passable point guard who can't shoot and makes terrible decisions. -4 Net Rtg on 27% USG and he makes everyone around him worse and destroys spacing.

[Ruzious]

The key is benching MCW

Bench him in favor of who? Ennis and Bayless aren't the answer. It might make sense to actually get someone better before they bench MCW.

Bench MCW literally in favor of anyone. Bucks were significantly better with Brandon Knight, and nearly every Bayless lineup with a passable sample outperformed nearly every MCW lineup. It's not close. MCW is one of the most overrated player in the NBA. He kills offenses, and Hinkie was quite sharp in trading him before his value collapsed.

Show me a passable point guard who can't shoot and makes terrible decisions. -4 Net Rtg on 27% USG and he makes everyone around him worse and destroys spacing.

I hear ya, but he did impress with his defense in Milwaukee and was considered a major reason for the Bucks finishing 5th in the NBA in defensive efficiency - an area that Knight was very bad at. When he was trade, Knight had an awful +/- around -9. Meanwhile, MCW was +7.3 for Mil. I agree they should upgrade at PG, but Bayless and Ennis aren't upgrades or legitimate alternatives, imo.