small ball? wave of the future???

ratedrdb · Post #1 » by **ratedrdb** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:26 am

ok I know its just a playoff series, but, this may just turn the side of nba into full fledged small ball--wheres don nelson---.
so we could draft okafor and get a sf later in the draft?
c--okafor
pf--randle
sf--
sg-kobe
pg--clarkson

Mirjalovic · Post #2 » by **Mirjalovic** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:32 am

What do you mean ?

Okafor and Randle as a starter isn't small ball

dipstick · Post #3 » by **dipstick** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:51 pm

I don't see how thats small ball either.

But going on topic, I still submit that small ball is necessitated by the lack of dominant big men. If Cleveland had a Center that can post up with good handles, then I guarantee that Bogut would be playing big minutes. Unfortunately, even when Mozgov scored his 28 points in game 4, most of his points were not from posting up but mostly from assists. A dominant big would slow down the game and force small ball teams to go away from their strengths.

One Love · Post #4 » by **One Love** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:04 pm

The game has changed... Most teams play a PG, Center & 3 wings... Even the Spurs (TD at 5), Rockets (DH at 5), GS (Green at 5) & Cavs (TT at 5)... The game is about speed, spacing and shooters & the traditional 5 is done... The 5 is a pick and roll/pop player... The dribblers create opportunities not the center... The game has chnged which is why Russell should be our pick... Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Randle & ______ (Asik, Chandler, Amir) & play ball... Randle moves to 5 when we need more speed... We don't need a slow big man...

The game has changed...

ArC_man · Post #5 » by **ArC_man** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:48 pm

I don't believe it's "small ball" that's taking over the league, more like "skilled ball". Shorter players typically have more basketball skills than bigs: passing, ball handling, and shooting (as well as more mobility). Offenses nowadays are based around ball/player movement as well emphasizing floor spacing so they can really only afford to play one big who typically doesn't have the requisite skills to make the offense function. However if you have two skilled bigs who can pass and shoot (Memphis or SA), it's possible to still play with a big lineup.

I'm sure if Mozgov were able to handle a double team and pass the ball, GSW wouldn't be playing Draymond Green at C. Fortunately for us, both of the top bigs in this draft are highly skilled.

Dmanning2 · Post #6 » by **Dmanning2** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:50 pm

You not making it out the West with small ball

Sedale Threatt · Post #7 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:53 pm

Dmanning2 wrote:You not making it out the West with small ball

The Warriors did this year, with Draymond Green at PF.

Dmanning2 · Post #8 » by **Dmanning2** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:00 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
Dmanning2 wrote:You not making it out the West with small ball

The Warriors did this year, with Draymond Green at PF.

With a 7' C guarding the basket?

Small ball is putting Draymond at the 5 letting HARRISON BARNES play the 4.

Harrison on Giffin? Zbo? AD? Duncan? LMA? Dirk?

By the way that 6/7 playoffs teams not including the warriors.

Dont forget Defense win Championships Draymond = Most 1st place votes for DPOY

Jody Smokz · Post #9 » by **Jody Smokz** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:14 pm

This...it's all about being versatile and skilled. You can still run a traditional lineup and win. Teams aren't winning and losing simply on the basis of playing small ball or too big.

ArC_man wrote:I don't believe it's "small ball" that's taking over the league, more like "skilled ball". Shorter players typically have more basketball skills than bigs: passing, ball handling, and shooting (as well as more mobility). Offenses nowadays are based around ball/player movement as well emphasizing floor spacing so they can really only afford to play one big who typically doesn't have the requisite skills to make the offense function. However if you have two skilled bigs who can pass and shoot (Memphis or SA), it's possible to still play with a big lineup.

I'm sure if Mozgov were able to handle a double team and pass the ball, GSW wouldn't be playing Draymond Green at C. Fortunately for us, both of the top bigs in this draft are highly skilled.

One Love · Post #10 » by **One Love** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:20 pm

I thought Golden State beat Houston with Howard & Memphis with Gasol... Sounds like small ball is working... The game has changed... It is now perimeter based... Are you saying that Okafor is more talented than Howard or Gasol right now... Come on fellas... Lets drat Russell & play ball...

Jody Smokz · Post #11 » by **Jody Smokz** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:25 pm

They beat them b/c of other factors not simply b/c of small ball. Warrior LOST to the Clippers last year with Bogut out with lee and Draymond playing C. Did small work then? No.

Sure the game has changed but it's not to the extreme that having SF playing 4s and Centers needing a 3 pt shot is the wave and beneficial to everyone. The PHX Suns played small ball and still got beat by the Spurs and Mavs during their big run.

One Love wrote:I thought Golden State beat Houston with Howard & Memphis with Gasol... Sounds like small ball is working... The game has changed... It is now perimeter based... Are you saying that Okafor is more talented than Howard or Gasol right now... Come on fellas... Lets drat Russell & play ball...

Sedale Threatt · Post #12 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:30 pm

Dmanning2 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
Dmanning2 wrote:You not making it out the West with small ball

The Warriors did this year, with Draymond Green at PF.

With a 7' C guarding the basket?

Small ball is putting Draymond at the 5 letting HARRISON BARNES play the 4.

Harrison on Giffin? Zbo? AD? Duncan? LMA? Dirk?

By the way that 6/7 playoffs teams not including the warriors.

Dont forget Defense win Championships Draymond = Most 1st place votes for DPOY

That's extreme small ball. Otherwise, starting Green at power forward at 6-7/230 absolutely qualifies, at least in my mind, and tons of others who have been writing about it all year. (Also, the Barnes/Curry/Green/Iguodala/Thompson lineup has been a go-to throughout the playoffs.) Now, if you want to say you're still going to need a traditional center to make it through the RS, and certain matchups, then I'd definitely agree -- but that applies to either conference. And I wouldn't say it's going to be common for teams to play like this, because Green is an extremely unique player, and he's the one who makes it work. But the Warriors just proved that, if you have the right pieces to play this particular style, you can absolutely win regardless of what conference you play in.

Post #13 » by **crazyeights** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:41 pm

It's foolish to say there's a way to win, period. It's not about small ball or a big. It's about what pieces are actually tangible for a team to put together and how best to organize them.

It's about creating the best mismatches, having great defensive chemistry, playing together.

Small ball can be effective, especially if you have some of the greatest shooters ever on your team. But people need to realize that Steph is essentially the Shaq of shooters. Guys like him down come around every 5 years. We may never see one again.

Mitch and Jim have to use their picks to piece together the best possible team with its own unique style. Make teams have to play catch up to them. It's rare for a team to win while emulating something before it, unless you simply have transformative talent.

Post #14 » by **dockingsched** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:57 pm

Small ball really is code for being able to spread the floor on offense in order to create space and lanes to attack. It also means being able to recover and help on defense. Often times bigger players aren't able to help with these goals so teams are more inclined to play a smaller player that is more likely to be able to help. Teams have been winning with bigs that could spread the floor for years, it's nothing new.

One Love · Post #15 » by **One Love** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:57 pm

I thought Golden State beat Houston with Howard & Memphis with Gasol... Sounds like small ball is working... The game has changed... It is now perimeter based... Are you saying that Okafor is more talented than Howard or Gasol right now... Come on fellas... Lets drat Russell & play ball...

Pointgod · Post #16 » by **Pointgod** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:17 pm

One Love wrote:The game has changed... Most teams play a PG, Center & 3 wings... Even the Spurs (TD at 5), Rockets (DH at 5), GS (Green at 5) & Cavs (TT at 5)... The game is about speed, spacing and shooters & the traditional 5 is done... The 5 is a pick and roll/pop player... The dribblers create opportunities not the center... The game has chnged which is why Russell should be our pick... Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Randle & ______ (Asik, Chandler, Amir) & play ball... Randle moves to 5 when we need more speed... We don't need a slow big man...

The game has changed...

Draft Russell, sign Tobias Harris, Asik and KJ McDaniels. Use our late picks to fill out the roster with athletic bigs like Rakeem Christmas, Christian Woods, Robert Upshaw etc. We could run with a starting line up of Russell, Kobe, McDaniels, Harris and Asik. 3 guys in the starting lineup that can create their own shots and 2 defensive stoppers. We could bring Clarkson off the bench or start him instead of Russell(although I feel Russell would be a better starting back court mate to Kobe). Clarkson, Randle and Young could lead the second unit in scoring with the rest of the bigs rounding out the second unit. This gives us a pretty versatile team that can shoot, defend and create. We could also go plug Randle into the starting lineup and go big when we face teams like Memphis.

Penberthy · Post #17 » by **Penberthy** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:33 pm

One Love wrote:The game has changed... Most teams play a PG, Center & 3 wings... Even the Spurs (TD at 5), Rockets (DH at 5), GS (Green at 5) & Cavs (TT at 5)... The game is about speed, spacing and shooters & the traditional 5 is done... The 5 is a pick and roll/pop player... The dribblers create opportunities not the center... The game has chnged which is why Russell should be our pick... Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Randle & ______ (Asik, Chandler, Amir) & play ball... Randle moves to 5 when we need more speed... We don't need a slow big man...

The game has changed...

Funny this whole time I was watching Pau and Marc my eyes were lying to me.

Penberthy · Post #18 » by **Penberthy** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:36 pm

Everyone is using GS winning as a reason why True Centers and PFs are obsolete. What about having possibly the best shooter in the history of the game, and possibly the second best shooter in the league next to him as a the reason for winning? Do you really think if this team went up against Pau LO and Bynum in their prime that they would still be playing a 6'7 dude at center and getting away with it?

Its like saying, hey look look at the 90s bulls, they don't need a Center THE GAME IS CHANGING! MJ? who's MJ?

xurde · Post #19 » by **xurde** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:06 pm

If the Cavs had to Olajuwon, that question would not ...

Pointgod · Post #20 » by **Pointgod** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:31 pm

Penberthy wrote:Everyone is using GS winning as a reason why True Centers and PFs are obsolete. What about having possibly the best shooter in the history of the game, and possibly the second best shooter in the league next to him as a the reason for winning? Do you really think if this team went up against Pau LO and Bynum in their prime that they would still be playing a 6'7 dude at center and getting away with it?

Its like saying, hey look look at the 90s bulls, they don't need a Center THE GAME IS CHANGING! MJ? who's MJ?

I think you're missing the point. All four teams in the conference finals don't run traditional big man offenses and were the leading teams in 3 point shooting during the regular season. The point is that one center surrounded by four perimeter players is the new wave. The emphasis is now on 3 point shooting, ball movement and versatility. The same versatility that allows Kerr to surround Bogut with perimeter players or start Draymond Green in his place.