Embiid Updates/Discussion

[BullyKing]

I haven't scoured the list of free agents/possible trade targets because I didn't think it was a viable option.

With the Embiid injury, I was thinking that Harris might suggest to Hinkie that after 3 really bad years (one of which wasn't Hinkie's fault), they throw a bone to the fans. They wouldn't be abandoning the plan, just making an adjustment to make the product a little more entertaining and "be a better citizen of the league" or whatever Harris said when the majority of teams voted to change the lottery back before the season.

What you are suggesting IS abandoning "the plan" and that's why Harris and Hinkie won't do it. Thankfully we finally have ownership and management that is committed to building a champion and not just committed to filling the arena, placating the fans, and/or making some short term profits.

You are totally speaking out of turn. The quantity and expected quality of draft picks accumulated for next year should not make it necessary to tank a 3rd year, Embiid or no Embiid.

It's OK to be willing to keep delaying one's own gratification, but calling out other fans who want to see the team competitive after 2 years of tanking is just wrong. You are just giving legs to the hitherto ridiculous story of a Hinkie ponzie scheme.

He's not saying wanting to sign whatever free agents you can this season and win as many games as possible this season is wrong - he's merely pointing out the obvious, which is that it is antithetical to Hinkie's plan. Hinkie's plan is simple: until you have superstar(s) to build around, do absolutely nothing that will hurt your flexibility even a little. Signing middling free agents who in today's NBA all command multi-year contracts would absolutely be abandoning that plan.

It's not about tanking this year. It's about avoiding a situation where you have Channing Frye and Ben Gordon taking playing time from Aaron Gordon and Victor Oladipo while sitting on your books for years when you might be able to put that money to better use.

[Johnny Broad-Street]

See THAT'S the concise explanation I wish more naysayers could hear.

[TigerInYourTank]

I haven't scoured the list of free agents/possible trade targets because I didn't think it was a viable option.

Great - so to recap: (1) you're sick of tanking; (2) so the Sixers should sign a young, good NBA player who will make the team competitive; but (3) you can't be bothered to figure out who that person is. Anything else?

Who gives a **** whether any particular fan knows who the team should sign? A fan wants to see the team competitive. We all respect the ability of our front office to get those hard-to-find guys from somewhere, right?

Seriously, you guys need to leave this fan alone for asking what any fan would ask for after 2 years of tanking and 3 years of just sucking.

[PhilasFinest]

What you are suggesting IS abandoning "the plan" and that's why Harris and Hinkie won't do it. Thankfully we finally have ownership and management that is committed to building a champion and not just committed to filling the arena, placating the fans, and/or making some short term profits.

You are totally speaking out of turn. The quantity and expected quality of draft picks accumulated for next year should not make it necessary to tank a 3rd year, Embiid or no Embiid.

It's OK to be willing to keep delaying one's own gratification, but calling out other fans who want to see the team competitive after 2 years of tanking is just wrong. You are just giving legs to the hitherto ridiculous story of a Hinkie ponzie scheme.

He's not saying wanting to sign whatever free agents you can this season and win as many games as possible this season is wrong - he's merely pointing out the obvious, which is that it is antithetical to Hinkie's plan. Hinkie's plan is simple: until you have superstar(s) to build around, do absolutely nothing that will hurt your flexibility even a little. Signing middling free agents who in today's NBA all command multi-year contracts would absolutely be abandoning that plan.

It's not about tanking this year. It's about avoiding a situation where you have Channing Frye and Ben Gordon taking playing time from Aaron Gordon and Victor Oladipo while sitting on your books for years when you might be able to put that money to better use.

Round of applause for this man.

[BullyKing]

I haven't scoured the list of free agents/possible trade targets because I didn't think it was a viable option.

Great - so to recap: (1) you're sick of tanking; (2) so the Sixers should sign a young, good NBA player who will make the team competitive; but (3) you can't be bothered to figure out who that person is. Anything else?

Who gives a **** whether any particular fan knows who the team should sign? A fan wants to see the team competitive. We all respect the ability of our front office to get those hard-to-find guys from somewhere, right?

Seriously, you guys need to leave this fan alone for asking what any fan would ask for after 2 years of tanking and 3 years of just sucking.

Because, to paraphrase Hinkie, sitting around and dreaming of possibilities that are not really possible is an inefficient use of time and mental energy.

[TigerInYourTank]

What you are suggesting IS abandoning "the plan" and that's why Harris and Hinkie won't do it. Thankfully we finally have ownership and management that is committed to building a champion and not just committed to filling the arena, placating the fans, and/or making some short term profits.

You are totally speaking out of turn. The quantity and expected quality of draft picks accumulated for next year should not make it necessary to tank a 3rd year, Embiid or no Embiid.

It's OK to be willing to keep delaying one's own gratification, but calling out other fans who want to see the team competitive after 2 years of tanking is just wrong. You are just giving legs to the hitherto ridiculous story of a Hinkie ponzie scheme.

He's not saying wanting to sign whatever free agents you can this season and win as many games as possible this season is wrong - he's merely pointing out the obvious, which is that it is antithetical to Hinkie's plan. Hinkie's plan is simple: until you have superstar(s) to build around, do absolutely nothing that will hurt your flexibility even a little. Signing middling free agents who in today's NBA all command multi-year contracts would absolutely be abandoning that plan.

It's not about tanking this year. It's about avoiding a situation where you have Channing Frye and Ben Gordon taking playing time from Aaron Gordon and Victor Oladipo while sitting on your books for years when you might be able to put that money to better use.

Since this thread is about Embiid, I will frame it in the context of Embiid: even if his legs are falling off, that is not an appropriate excuse for tanking a 3rd year. We have Noel, who had an historically great rookie year, defensive-wise. If you are talking about tanking again, you are now talking about hurting the career of what could be a HOF center that could anchor a championship team (with some added weight).

You say it's about avoiding an Orlando situation, but why is it necessary that the team sign a Channing Frye or Ben Gordon? Every year there are surprises and maybe there's even a poor-man's Whiteside out there.

The point is to try and work hard with what the team has, including its draft war-chest. Lot's of picks should result in a star, statistically, even if our FO is just average.

[TigerInYourTank]

Great - so to recap: (1) you're sick of tanking; (2) so the Sixers should sign a young, good NBA player who will make the team competitive; but (3) you can't be bothered to figure out who that person is. Anything else?

Who gives a **** whether any particular fan knows who the team should sign? A fan wants to see the team competitive. We all respect the ability of our front office to get those hard-to-find guys from somewhere, right?

Seriously, you guys need to leave this fan alone for asking what any fan would ask for after 2 years of tanking and 3 years of just sucking.

Because, to paraphrase Hinkie, sitting around and dreaming of possibilities that are not really possible is an inefficient use of time and mental energy.

So, getting Whiteside wasn't possible last year? Come on, now, you're lapsing into a straw man and I'm having to counter with one.

[HartfordWhalers]

Who gives a **** whether any particular fan knows who the team should sign? A fan wants to see the team competitive. We all respect the ability of our front office to get those hard-to-find guys from somewhere, right?

Seriously, you guys need to leave this fan alone for asking what any fan would ask for after 2 years of tanking and 3 years of just sucking.

Because, to paraphrase Hinkie, sitting around and dreaming of possibilities that are not really possible is an inefficient use of time and mental energy.

So, getting Whiteside wasn't possible last year? Come on, now, you're lapsing into a straw man and I'm having to counter with one.

Sixers did that in Covington. They have been shopping exactly for that type of bargain high upside youth. What they haven't been doing is signing middling established vets.

If you are arguing for a Whiteside, then you should be arguing for exactly what they have been doing.

[TigerInYourTank]

Removed and warned. If you want to personally attack someone, go do it somewhere else as that isn't acceptable here. -- Hfw

[TigerInYourTank]

Because, to paraphrase Hinkie, sitting around and dreaming of possibilities that are not really possible is an inefficient use of time and mental energy.

So, getting Whiteside wasn't possible last year? Come on, now, you're lapsing into a straw man and I'm having to counter with one.

Sixers did that in Covington. They have been shopping exactly for that type of bargain high upside youth. What they haven't been doing is signing middling established vets.

If you are arguing for a Whiteside, then you should be arguing for exactly what they have been doing.

Oh, I'm totally on board with getting another Covington-level player, and I think it's evidence that this FO can find such players without drafting them. I just want the FO to be appropriately motivated to find such players THIS YEAR and I find it very difficult to respect the comments on this board that are like "well, everyone that's available sucks, so tank commander 3.0...it's part of the plan and the plan doesn't change no matter how long it goes on or how many future assets have been accrued"

[HartfordWhalers]

So, getting Whiteside wasn't possible last year? Come on, now, you're lapsing into a straw man and I'm having to counter with one.

Sixers did that in Covington. They have been shopping exactly for that type of bargain high upside youth. What they haven't been doing is signing middling established vets.

If you are arguing for a Whiteside, then you should be arguing for exactly what they have been doing.

Oh, I'm totally on board with getting another Covington-level player, and I think it's evidence that this FO can find such players without drafting them. I just want the FO to be appropriately motivated to find such players THIS YEAR and I find it very difficult to respect the comments on this board that are like "well, everyone that's available sucks, so tank commander 3.0...it's part of the plan and the plan doesn't change no matter how long it goes on or how many future assets have been accrued"

The problem is, most Covington/Whiteside breakout guys are gambles that have a 75% chance of sucking. And really it is more like 90%.

When the argument is put out a decent product and get decent players, it is about getting Spencer Hawes, Nick Young, maybe even Thad Young level types that are stabilizing and together might take a team from 20 wins to 26-30 wins. But even ignoring the cap issues and the dificulty with getting players like that to do 1 year deals, that ties up roster spots and playing time that could be going to sifting for gold in the dleague.

If Philly had had a few replacement level guys instead of Hollis Thompson and Jakarr Sampson, they wouldn't necessarily have had the roster spots to churn through 6 guys before finding Covington.

[TigerInYourTank]

Sixers did that in Covington. They have been shopping exactly for that type of bargain high upside youth. What they haven't been doing is signing middling established vets.

If you are arguing for a Whiteside, then you should be arguing for exactly what they have been doing.

Oh, I'm totally on board with getting another Covington-level player, and I think it's evidence that this FO can find such players without drafting them. I just want the FO to be appropriately motivated to find such players THIS YEAR and I find it very difficult to respect the comments on this board that are like "well, everyone that's available sucks, so tank commander 3.0...it's part of the plan and the plan doesn't change no matter how long it goes on or how many future assets have been accrued"

The problem is, most Covington/Whiteside breakout guys are gambles that have a 75% chance of sucking. And really it is more like 90%.

When the argument is put out a decent product and get decent players, it is about getting Spencer Hawes, Nick Young, maybe even Thad Young level types that are stabilizing and together might take a team from 20 wins to 26-30 wins. But even ignoring the cap issues and the dificulty with getting players like that to do 1 year deals, that ties up roster spots and playing time that could be going to sifting for gold in the dleague.

If Philly had had a few replacement level guys instead of Hollis Thompson and Jakarr Sampson, they wouldn't necessarily have had the roster spots to churn through 6 guys before finding Covington.

Right, I, and probably most fans, understand that. The point is to build a winning (the C word is coming) culture with the pieces that we have and will have, thanks to all of the trades. It wouldn't kill the team's cap to sign one FA that could add a few wins. There is no shame in winning 30 games, for example, after what's happened the last 3 years.

[HartfordWhalers]

Feel free to debate the Embiid possibilities, the merits of tanking, and the importance of veterans and a watchable product. But I'm at zero patience on personal insults as an acceptable form of debate to someone who disagrees. This is a warning for everyone.

[51X3RF4N]

Why isn't this debate happening in the "Tank is over" thread?

Also...there are no short-term fixes for the Sixers current problem. Even if you went out and traded for or signed a few guys, you'd still have a team that has to fight for the 8th spot in the East (at best), and then your 2016 draft pick is 15-20 range as opposed to top 3. Why would you want to drop so far in the draft, and lose out on a potential Ben Simmons prospect, for 1 season of potentially better success?

I guess my question is... why would you NOT tank again in 2015? Regardless of Embiid injury. Why NOT put yourself in a position to have a top 3 pick next year, to add to Embiid/Saric/Noel/#3 in 2015/LAL pick?

I just want to know why people want to "win" and "compete" so badly in the short term, that it takes away the chance at having a truly special dynasty built? Is tanking another season really all that bad? So what if the Sixers don't win 30 games this season. Watching Noel and the #3 pick develop will be fun, and if Saric is brought over, even more fun. I don't think winning an extra 10 games in 2015 is truly going to make any of these players, coaches, or management's careers any better.

Can you still build a dynasty with Noel/Russell/#15 pick in 2016/Saric/other 2016 picks? Sure, I bet you can. But why sacrifice the difference between a top 3 pick and a 15-20 pick just for a few meaningless wins this year?

[snoopdogg88]

Even if Embiid is 100% healthy and the Sixers draft Russell, they still won't win more than 30 games.

super young teams don't win the NBA. i think this why people are against #TankPart3.

because it's not really necessary. we are going to suck for at least 1 one season regardless. might as well finally get some talent on the court for it.

[ankle420breaker]

Have any further developments been released on Embiid's condition since the Bill Self report?

[crow]

Have any further developments been released on Embiid's condition since the Bill Self report?

Nothin. All we know is that it won't require another surgery and he hasn't reinjured anything.

[BullyKing]

Who gives a **** whether any particular fan knows who the team should sign? A fan wants to see the team competitive. We all respect the ability of our front office to get those hard-to-find guys from somewhere, right?

Seriously, you guys need to leave this fan alone for asking what any fan would ask for after 2 years of tanking and 3 years of just sucking.

Because, to paraphrase Hinkie, sitting around and dreaming of possibilities that are not really possible is an inefficient use of time and mental energy.

So, getting Whiteside wasn't possible last year? Come on, now, you're lapsing into a straw man and I'm having to counter with one.

Clearly signing the Whiteside and Covington's of the world is not what people who are sick of tanking are asking for as that's what we've already been doing.

[Skates]

Even if Embiid is 100% healthy and the Sixers draft Russell, they still won't win more than 30 games.

super young teams don't win the NBA. i think this why people are against #TankPart3.

because it's not really necessary. we are going to suck for at least 1 one season regardless. might as well finally get some talent on the court for it.

This is actually why I disagree with people who call this year Tank 2.0 and presume the plan all along was for us to grab two players who couldn't play this year. When BB was talking about planning pre-draft last year, he specifically mentioned thinking of ways to fit in Wiggins and Stauskas when we drafted them. That was before the Embiid injury when it looked like it would be Embiid, Parker and Wiggins at 3.

Assume we had drafted Wiggins, and at ten, rather than using the pick to acquire Saric and future draft picks we took the guy most people were clamoring for at that stage, McDermott. We still would have sucked, but technically it wouldn't have been a tank to some people? If Hinkie had picked Embiid and Saric over higher rated players and then had them not available, I would agree that it was a purposeful outright tank set of moves. But Embiid, injury risk and all, was clearly a tier above the next guys, except perhaps Exum in draft circles last year, and likewise, ignoring the Euro commitment, Saric was rated around 7th in the draft. They took the two highest rated guys at their respective draft positions, and got them at value picks because of their warts, the injury and the Euro contract respectively.

Let's say we took Exum and McDermott last year, both would have played, likely sucked (I still think Exum is too young to call a bust) as they did with their own teams and as noted in your post, we would have still been high lottery bound. It doesn't seem like it was Hinkie's plan to draft two guys who couldn't play last year, the Board just fell that way and he stuck with his philosophy of taking the highest rated guy. We would have sucked either way, Wiggins' team is picking first after all, all that changed was the perception, not the reality or win total outcome.

[wickedwrister]

Even if Embiid is 100% healthy and the Sixers draft Russell, they still won't win more than 30 games.

super young teams don't win the NBA. i think this why people are against #TankPart3.

because it's not really necessary. we are going to suck for at least 1 one season regardless. might as well finally get some talent on the court for it.

I think it defines how you define tank. I don't think they sign any free agents unless they can lure one of the RFAs over which is unlikely. Essentially you will have the team from last year plus (hopefully) Embiid and whomever gets drafted next week. Basically we will be the 2014-15 Orlando Magic. Not going to win much but likely won't be in the bottom 2. Some people by extension will view this as the third year of tanking because Hinkie still won't go out and sign a bunch of vets and the team won't be great.