Non-Nets Playoff Thread

[NyCeEvO]

If Love and Irving were healthy Golden State would have gotten their asses kicked. These games have all been hairthin close, you add the offensive fire power of those two and this would have been over.

Basketball is not basic arithmetic.

It's obvious that Cleveland would have a much, much better shot of winning if they're healthy but I don't think you can simply say LBJ would've played the same and we can just "add" good offensive performances by Kyrie and Love.

I think Kyrie has always been the X-factor. He can't lead a team by himself but he plays the #2 on a championship team option very well. His ability to break down the defense can give you 2-3 straight minutes of Kyrie beasting while LBJ doesn't have to exert a ton of energy.

In the offensive sets that Cleveland runs, Love is squeezed the most. He's not able to have as much of a positive impact as he would have on most teams. Considering how valuable offensive rebounding is, I can easily see someone making the argument that Tristan Thompson's impact in 20-25 minutes of play has a more positive effect for CLE than 25-30 minutes of Love in CLE's offensive system.

If Kyrie and Love are healthy, I do see the Cavs winning but not in some 4-0 or 4-1 fashion like others are suggesting.

[Paradise]

Kyrie and Love also equals less defense, less passing, less hustle plays compared to what Cleveland is doing now.

It still would be a close series. It also would've made LeBron a lot more passive since he wouldn't feel the need to go for 40 and there is no clear cut guarantee that Love or Irving would really show up throughout the series like James Harden in 2011.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Kyrie and Love also equals less defense, less passing, less hustle plays compared to what Cleveland is doing now.

It still would be a close series. It also would've made LeBron a lot more passive since he wouldn't feel the need to go for 40 and there is no clear cut guarantee that Love or Irving would really show up throughout the series like James Harden in 2011.

Thompson and Dellavadova are not that great defenders that it makes up for their complete lack of offensive ability.

If Lebron didn't have to score every possession he could focus more on his play making abilities and defense. Hes clearly out of his comfort zone.

They would be much much better with Irving and Love.

[NyCeEvO]

As cool as the Finals have been, I'm kinda hoping GSW just ends it tonight.

I don't know if I can stand another horribly reffed Finals game. The conference finals were reffed WAY better than these Finals.

[Paradise]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

[kerry kittles]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

They were a great regular season team without a doubt, but I don't think the best team we've in decades.
Still think with Kyrie and Love the Cavs win this series. And not blown away by how the Warriors beat Lebron + scrubs.

On my phone, can't embed tweets, but this:
@MazzESPN: FG% for Cavs in series: Shumpert 25.6, Delly 28.3, Smith 31.2, Jones 31.6

Those guys were also 0/21 with Lebron off the court. The Cavs had a 53 ortg when LBJ sat - to say he had no help would be an understatement. Kyrie can definitely run the offense/score when Lebron sits.

Overall, Kyrie Irving without a doubt makes a huge difference. Delly's a poor handler, can't score, not a starter in the league. Irving is a HUGE step up from him. Barkley was right in that Curry would get it going against Delly - a hustle player. Kyrie's defense was good in game 1 and would've been fine the rest of the series.

Love would've helped too. The Warriors had Barnes on TT as he's a 0 on offense. Yes, he dominated the offensive boards, but his lack of range effects spacing. Love, a great offensive player definitely opens things up, helps ease the burden.

Lebron was awesome this series but his two biggest knocks are his efficiency and how gassed he became. Love and Kyrie definitely help in both areas.

The 2000-01 Lakers that lost just 1 playoff game are better than the Warriors too.

[MrDollarBills]

They deserve all the credit in the world but with the way Lebron was playing there's no way they would have beaten the Cavs at full strength.

[CalamityX12]

Shaun Livingston!!!!!! congrats sir! you left here playing like a champ, glad to see you got your ring!

Harrison Barnes, glad Brooklyn wasn't around to draft you! lol.... smh....

[NyCeEvO]

Shaun Livingston!!!!!! congrats sir! you left here playing like a champ, glad to see you got your ring!

Harrison Barnes, glad Brooklyn wasn't around to draft you! lol.... smh....

I bet that other place is going to find someway to rip Livingston.

While he was here, everyone sung his praises. As soon as he leaves, Livingston is "injury-prone", "can't shoot", "credits Kidd instead of Nets with turnaround", etc.

The funny thing about the last one is that Kidd was the one responsible for getting Livingston here and making him feel wanted lol. It's like if you're not on the Nets, you're the scum of the earth.

[Paradise]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

They were a great regular season team without a doubt, but I don't think the best team we've in decades.
Still think with Kyrie and Love the Cavs win this series. And not blown away by how the Warriors beat Lebron + scrubs.

On my phone, can't embed tweets, but this:
@MazzESPN: FG% for Cavs in series: Shumpert 25.6, Delly 28.3, Smith 31.2, Jones 31.6

Those guys were also 0/21 with Lebron off the court. The Cavs had a 53 ortg when LBJ sat - to say he had no help would be an understatement. Kyrie can definitely run the offense/score when Lebron sits.

Overall, Kyrie Irving without a doubt makes a huge difference. Delly's a poor handler, can't score, not a starter in the league. Irving is a HUGE step up from him. Barkley was right in that Curry would get it going against Delly - a hustle player. Kyrie's defense was good in game 1 and would've been fine the rest of the series.

Love would've helped too. The Warriors had Barnes on TT as he's a 0 on offense. Yes, he dominated the offensive boards, but his lack of range effects spacing. Love, a great offensive player definitely opens things up, helps ease the burden.

Lebron was awesome this series but his two biggest knocks are his efficiency and how gassed he became. Love and Kyrie definitely help in both areas.

The 2000-01 Lakers that lost just 1 playoff game are better than the Warriors too.

Statistically, these Warriors are much better than anything we've seen in decades. First team ever to be #1 in Pace and win a title. The Finals doesn't necessarily change that.

Irving/Love would clearly help but Love wouldn't be any help on defense anywhere near what Mozgov and Thompson provided. Irving still wasn't greatly efficient and that would've made LeBron alot of more passive.

No guarantee at all that the series was be lopsided in the Cavs favor with both there. The Warriors were inexperienced. Digging out of a 2-1 hole while LeBron is averaging 40, 10, 8 is a great accomplishment.

[kerry kittles]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

They were a great regular season team without a doubt, but I don't think the best team we've in decades.
Still think with Kyrie and Love the Cavs win this series. And not blown away by how the Warriors beat Lebron + scrubs.

On my phone, can't embed tweets, but this:
@MazzESPN: FG% for Cavs in series: Shumpert 25.6, Delly 28.3, Smith 31.2, Jones 31.6

Those guys were also 0/21 with Lebron off the court. The Cavs had a 53 ortg when LBJ sat - to say he had no help would be an understatement. Kyrie can definitely run the offense/score when Lebron sits.

Overall, Kyrie Irving without a doubt makes a huge difference. Delly's a poor handler, can't score, not a starter in the league. Irving is a HUGE step up from him. Barkley was right in that Curry would get it going against Delly - a hustle player. Kyrie's defense was good in game 1 and would've been fine the rest of the series.

Love would've helped too. The Warriors had Barnes on TT as he's a 0 on offense. Yes, he dominated the offensive boards, but his lack of range effects spacing. Love, a great offensive player definitely opens things up, helps ease the burden.

Lebron was awesome this series but his two biggest knocks are his efficiency and how gassed he became. Love and Kyrie definitely help in both areas.

The 2000-01 Lakers that lost just 1 playoff game are better than the Warriors too.

Statistically, these Warriors are much better than anything we've seen in decades. First team ever to be #1 in Pace and win a title. The Finals doesn't necessarily change that.

Irving/Love would clearly help but Love wouldn't be any help on defense anywhere near what Mozgov and Thompson provided. Irving still wasn't greatly efficient and that would've made LeBron alot of more passive.

No guarantee at all that the series was be lopsided in the Cavs favor with both there. The Warriors were inexperienced. Digging out of a 2-1 hole while LeBron is averaging 40, 10, 8 is a great accomplishment.

The Warriors grade out as a great regular season team - no doubt about. Tops in the league in offense/defense as you mention, top 10 SRS of All Time. They are a great team - deserve credit, but I don't think the best team we've seen in decades.

I think this finals just reinforces that statistics - numbers in a vacuum are part of a story, but not the whole story. The context around those numbers are very important. Example, Lebron was an inefficient scorer, but had a monster playoffs. If you're box score watching - looking at his true shooting %, other metrics - you're losing sight of a historic performance. The Warriors grade out as a great regular season team. They were very fortunate to have health on their side all season. Thompson, Barnes, Green, Curry missed less than 5 games each. Bogut had one of his most healthy seasons in years. They were able to achieve great things in the regular season due to health, contunity.

You look at their playoffs and I don't see a team that was the best we've seen in decades. The 2000-01 Lakers weren't as healthy in the regular season, but come playoff time swept the western conference, going 11-0 against 3 50+ win teams including the Spurs. Lost just one game to an A.I led 6ers who had a monster game. 15-1 in the playoffs. That's a more dominant team to me.

Even look at last year's Spurs and the way they were firing on all cylinders in the playoffs. They had a much more dominant Finals and were really rolling after the 1st round. pop treats the regular season as more of a warmup for the playoffs - resting players when needed, etc.

I don't feel like I watched some dominate team that was at a different level from other champions in my lifetime, but a great, well coached, team, that was remarkably healthy.

I do think Love and Kyrie help. We can argue whether or not they would've been enough to win, but you look at a great team like the 2000-01 Lakers and you're not thinking another team would've beat them or it would be close. They steamrolled the playoffs.

[kerry kittles]

Shaun Livingston!!!!!! congrats sir! you left here playing like a champ, glad to see you got your ring!

Harrison Barnes, glad Brooklyn wasn't around to draft you! lol.... smh....

I bet that other place is going to find someway to rip Livingston.

While he was here, everyone sung his praises. As soon as he leaves, Livingston is "injury-prone", "can't shoot", "credits Kidd instead of Nets with turnaround", etc.

The funny thing about the last one is that Kidd was the one responsible for getting Livingston here and making him feel wanted lol. It's like if you're not on the Nets, you're the scum of the earth.

He had a great finals. He has great value as a versatile defender that can guard multiple positions, a high IQ player that knows where to pass the ball, where to be on the court, can score great in the mid-range game because he can shoot over almost anyone guarding him due to his length. Very happy for him - he was arguably our 3rd best/most valuable player when he was here.

Yes, he's not a perfect player, but he's making the MLE, for that price he's a great value. His ability to guard multiple positions and his IQ are a great fit for the Warriors.

It's embarrassing that they poke holes in a player like Livingston, yet find ways to defend Deron, but what would you expect when most of a thread is discussing how great a trade is that is not plausible under the CBA. A basic understanding of the game would go a long way.

Hats off to an underappreciated Livingston - wish we could've retained him, but happy to see him a champion.

[NyCeEvO]

Shaun Livingston!!!!!! congrats sir! you left here playing like a champ, glad to see you got your ring!

Harrison Barnes, glad Brooklyn wasn't around to draft you! lol.... smh....

I bet that other place is going to find someway to rip Livingston.

While he was here, everyone sung his praises. As soon as he leaves, Livingston is "injury-prone", "can't shoot", "credits Kidd instead of Nets with turnaround", etc.

The funny thing about the last one is that Kidd was the one responsible for getting Livingston here and making him feel wanted lol. It's like if you're not on the Nets, you're the scum of the earth.

He had a great finals. He has great value as a versatile defender that can guard multiple positions, a high IQ player that knows where to pass the ball, where to be on the court, can score great in the mid-range game because he can shoot over almost anyone guarding him due to his length. Very happy for him - he was arguably our 3rd best/most valuable player when he was here.

Yes, he's not a perfect player, but he's making the MLE, for that price he's a great value. His ability to guard multiple positions and his IQ are a great fit for the Warriors.

It's embarrassing that they poke holes in a player like Livingston, yet find ways to defend Deron, but what would you expect when most of a thread is discussing how great a trade is that is not plausible under the CBA. A basic understanding of the game would go a long way.

Hats off to an underappreciated Livingston - wish we could've retained him, but happy to see him a champion.

It boils down to whether you're a Net player or not. As long as you're on the team, they'll defend you no matter what. As soon as you're off it, you become the worst of scum to them. All of the negative stuff about Pierce and Livingston was completely manufactured to get fans to talk about something and unify them against a player. It's actually quite sad when they all just take the narrative presented in the article as gospel.

[Prokorov]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

to me that really arent all that great. their accomplishments look good on paper, but really its not like this was a big year with alot of elite teams or anything. they also were very fortunate... opposing PGs injured vs them like every single round, didnt have to face the spurs or clippers. no love or irving in the finals. didnt suffer any injuries of their own.

i dont think they even make it a close series vs last year spurs for instance. they are well deserving of a title, im not calling them overrated, but to me there arent better then any of the last 5 or 6 championship teams.

[MrDollarBills]

Shaun Livingston!!!!!! congrats sir! you left here playing like a champ, glad to see you got your ring!

Harrison Barnes, glad Brooklyn wasn't around to draft you! lol.... smh....

I bet that other place is going to find someway to rip Livingston.

While he was here, everyone sung his praises. As soon as he leaves, Livingston is "injury-prone", "can't shoot", "credits Kidd instead of Nets with turnaround", etc.

The funny thing about the last one is that Kidd was the one responsible for getting Livingston here and making him feel wanted lol. It's like if you're not on the Nets, you're the scum of the earth.

yeah. I'm sure derogatory things will be said about Anderson when he bolts as well by those drones. Livingston was missed badly this season and he disguised just how god awful D-Will really is.

It boils down to whether you're a Net player or not. As long as you're on the team, they'll defend you no matter what. As soon as you're off it, you become the worst of scum to them. All of the negative stuff about Pierce and Livingston was completely manufactured to get fans to talk about something and unify them against a player. It's actually quite sad when they all just take the narrative presented in the article as gospel.

Pierce was getting ripped for telling the honest to god truth. I cannot stand homers

[MrDollarBills]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

They were a great regular season team without a doubt, but I don't think the best team we've in decades.
Still think with Kyrie and Love the Cavs win this series. And not blown away by how the Warriors beat Lebron + scrubs.

On my phone, can't embed tweets, but this:
@MazzESPN: FG% for Cavs in series: Shumpert 25.6, Delly 28.3, Smith 31.2, Jones 31.6

Those guys were also 0/21 with Lebron off the court. The Cavs had a 53 ortg when LBJ sat - to say he had no help would be an understatement. Kyrie can definitely run the offense/score when Lebron sits.

Overall, Kyrie Irving without a doubt makes a huge difference. Delly's a poor handler, can't score, not a starter in the league. Irving is a HUGE step up from him. Barkley was right in that Curry would get it going against Delly - a hustle player. Kyrie's defense was good in game 1 and would've been fine the rest of the series.

Love would've helped too. The Warriors had Barnes on TT as he's a 0 on offense. Yes, he dominated the offensive boards, but his lack of range effects spacing. Love, a great offensive player definitely opens things up, helps ease the burden.

Lebron was awesome this series but his two biggest knocks are his efficiency and how gassed he became. Love and Kyrie definitely help in both areas.

The 2000-01 Lakers that lost just 1 playoff game are better than the Warriors too.

Statistically, these Warriors are much better than anything we've seen in decades. First team ever to be #1 in Pace and win a title. The Finals doesn't necessarily change that.

Irving/Love would clearly help but Love wouldn't be any help on defense anywhere near what Mozgov and Thompson provided. Irving still wasn't greatly efficient and that would've made LeBron alot of more passive.

No guarantee at all that the series was be lopsided in the Cavs favor with both there. The Warriors were inexperienced. Digging out of a 2-1 hole while LeBron is averaging 40, 10, 8 is a great accomplishment.

The Cavs became easy to stop once the well ran dry with guys like Dellavedova, JR, and Shump out there just taking up space. I cannot fathom the Cavs being so easy to stop if Kyrie was out there as a 2nd scoring threat and Love out there to stretch the defense and score whenever he gets chances inside.

Golden State is an awesome team, but they got lucky that they faced a Lebron James team that was decimated like that.

[Paradise]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

to me that really arent all that great. their accomplishments look good on paper, but really its not like this was a big year with alot of elite teams or anything. they also were very fortunate... opposing PGs injured vs them like every single round, didnt have to face the spurs or clippers. no love or irving in the finals. didnt suffer any injuries of their own.

i dont think they even make it a close series vs last year spurs for instance. they are well deserving of a title, im not calling them overrated, but to me there arent better then any of the last 5 or 6 championship teams.

Holiday wasn't important because the Pelicans success came with Evans at PG. Conley only missed one game. The only true PG missed was Beverly. Does he make the Rockets better? Yes. Does he make them better than GS? No. The Clippers had no shot regardless. If the spurs lost a seven game series to the Clippers with no bench. How could both fare against a team much better? That simply means the spurs were not very good at all this postseason.

The Spurs last season faced a similar "lack of talent" team with wade, allen, battier and haslem declining. Cole, Chalmers, Miller, Bosh provided no presence inside. The narrative was LeBron vs San Antonio. Similar situation, different narrative.

The Warriors were the favorites for a reason and being inexperienced is what led to this becoming a 6 game series. Both teams had similar paths to the finals.

If you want to discredit the Warriors path that also means it should be done for Cleveland that missed Pau Gasol in Game 6 of the 2nd round, didn't see a healthy Carroll, Korver and Horford getting wrongly ejected in the 2nd quarter in what led to be a two point OT win in Game 3. The Cavs had some luck on their side as well by that standard.

[Prokorov]

I can't believe I witnessed a team that racked 83 total wins,1st in offense and defense. First team since the 96' Bulls to pull that off. I don't think people understand that this Warriors team is the best team we've seen in decades. They weren't underdogs compared to Dallas, Oklahoma and even San Antonio.

Steph Curry is the first franchise PG to win a title since Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons. He has accomplished something Payton, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Rose, Paul, Iverson all couldn't do and he's entering his prime.

So much history tonight. Makes me happy to be such a diehard fan of the game.

to me that really arent all that great. their accomplishments look good on paper, but really its not like this was a big year with alot of elite teams or anything. they also were very fortunate... opposing PGs injured vs them like every single round, didnt have to face the spurs or clippers. no love or irving in the finals. didnt suffer any injuries of their own.

i dont think they even make it a close series vs last year spurs for instance. they are well deserving of a title, im not calling them overrated, but to me there arent better then any of the last 5 or 6 championship teams.

Holiday wasn't important because the Pelicans success came with Evans at PG. Conley only missed one game. The only true PG missed was Beverly. Does he make the Rockets better? Yes. Does he make them better than GS? No. The Clippers had no shot regardless. If the spurs lost a seven game series to the Clippers with no bench. How could both fare against a team much better? That simply means the spurs were not very good at all this postseason.

The Spurs last season faced a similar "lack of talent" team with wade, allen, battier and haslem declining. Cole, Chalmers, Miller, Bosh provided no presence inside. The narrative was LeBron vs San Antonio. Similar situation, different narrative.

The Warriors were the favorites for a reason and being inexperienced is what led to this becoming a 6 game series. Both teams had similar paths to the finals.

If you want to discredit the Warriors path that also means it should be done for Cleveland that missed Pau Gasol in Game 6 of the 2nd round, didn't see a healthy Carroll, Korver and Horford getting wrongly ejected in the 2nd quarter in what led to be a two point OT win in Game 3. The Cavs had some luck on their side as well by that standard.

i would say losing kyrie irving for 5 of the 6 games was pretty major as well.

the spurs going 7 with the clippers, had they won has no bearing no how they would play vs other teams. they sturggled vs dallas in round 1 before going on to win the finals. the clippers just happen to match up well.

and i never said cleveland didnt have any easy pass. they absolutely did. i dont see what that has to do with golden state though. last years heat team won back to back titles, and declining wade and bosh is still better then no love and no irving by a pretty huge margin

im not trying to say the warriors didnt win their title. but nothing about their team impressed me as far as being one of the better title teams of the last 10 years. and certainly not the last 20

[Claud]

Really happy for S-Dot... they could make a movie out of his journey.

We really missed his BBIQ, defense and the way he runs the team.