OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[spearsy23]

Why do you always have to argue with what i say?
And why does that argument typically start with you rewording what i said?

Dude... fact of the matter is this.
KD has an issue that can possibly be persistent.
We, dont have a legit full time back up 3.
Combine the two and we come to the very rational conclusion that we should be looking for a good 3. It does not have to be a superstar 3, or a home run 3 or anything like that. Simply someone who can come in and post 20mpg WKD healthy, and possibly come in full time if the worst happens and KD needs some more time off.

All I've asked for is some proof that KD's injury is likely to be persistent. You said 'go look it up yourself.' Well SoonersRule provided you a sweet link, I provided you some names, and you're wrong.

Im kind of done with this conversation, it seems to be going no where.
But i kept the first quote and your reply in so i can highlight this second part.

All I've asked for is some proof that KD's injury is likely to be persistent. You said 'go look it up yourself.' Well SoonersRule provided you a sweet link, I provided you some names, and you're wrong.

KD has an issue that can possibly be persistent.

This is exactly what i was talking about... you literally did exactly what you attempted to laugh off.

Me saying that this is a possibility and we need to prepare for the worst, is not me saying its a likely scenario.

Do you not get the difference between me saying that his injury could most likely be a persistent issue, and even if its not, we need to prepare for it and me suggesting that he has a likely career ending injury?

[spearsy23]

Morrow played the three a ton last season, Robes plays the 3 offensively, and Singler is expected to be back. If Singler isn't back then I'd say it's probably because we drafted Stanley Johnson or Justise Winslow. No other available SF's are going to be getting significant playing time next year over Jones/Morrow.

Yah.
Paul Pierce played the 4 a few times last year too.
Marion used to play the center at times.

So what?
Teams do this when they are lacking proper back ups at that position. You can put any player at any position, it doesnt mean that's whats best for the team.

Morrows not a 3.

There isn't some huge difference between playing the 2 and 3. There's a very significant difference between the 3 and 4. Morrow would most likely play the 2 and Robes would move to the 3.

Roberson could develop into a 3, but we'd have to move him over there full time and i dont think he'd be the defensive beast he is as a guard. Many of his advantages would be evened out.

He's already guarding the other team's best perimeter wing. If that's a SG he'll guard them, if it's a SF he'll guard them. The 2 and 3 in Donovan's offense are basically interchangeable, so there's no reason to be caught up on positioning.

I like Singler, but again, hes a question mark.
Same with PJ.

Now.
What we really need to do is take Lamb, Novak, PJ and that 14th, and try to get Winslow in the draft. Winslow would be the ideal 2/3 in the draft that we could get, that i'd be comfortable with. Kelly.... ehhh... not so much. Hes a 2.

I'd Love Winslow or Johnson, they're both hybrids that fit alongside Durant as well as behind him. Realistically they won't be available, so the next best thing is Oubre who is at least two years away, and fits in a way that works alongside the current roster construction. He can be a 2 way player, probably not a great one, but he can provide 3 and D and maybe a little more against bench units. I wouldn't mind if we took Payne instead and prepared for DJ's departure. I just don't agree that we need to prepare for KD's imminent demise. We need players who fit alongside him, not just behind him.

[Soonerule]

Here is the list of players that suffered the same injury complete with names, whether or not they had surgery, a re-occurrence, a second surgery and total games missed:

http://instreetclothes.com/2014/10/12/breaking-kevin-durants-jones-fracture/

Missed this before I posted, great post
At the end of the day, sure we can prepare for the most unlikely scenario, but why would we ignore needs based on the 1% chance that KD doesn't get healthy? That said, I still want a hybrid 2/3 because Waiters sucks, Lamb probably isn't the answer either, we need 2's who can keep up physically with Lebron, and as much as I love Robes getting a version of him that shoots 35% from three puts this team squarely ahead of everyone else. The only other need is backup point, and that's only because DJ may not be back after next season and you'd prefer not to have a rookie at that position.

I'm much more concerned with Durant leaving after next season than I am about any foot issues. If he does Presti may do exactly what he did when he first took over as general manager. Have an all out yard sale and start from scratch, especially if Westbrook follows him the next season.

That is one reason this draft is so critical and why I initially gravitated to Justin Anderson when I first starting looking at possible picks. I think he successfully cleaned up his mechanics and the 50% he was shooting prior to his hand injury and appendectomy was legit. He is one of the most athletic prospects in the draft and he comes in with a solid defensive skill set, a big motor, and an NBA ready body. I think the mock draft are underrating him.

I like Sam Dekker too, as we saw in the NCAA tourney, he's a gamer and versatile and also has an NBA ready body. Kelly Oubre may possess the most potential but I think these other two are more polished and can contribute quicker.

I think Presti's decision on Kanter is also critical. I rate the potential for disaster higher than the upside and that makes rolling the dice with $65 to $75 million of the bosses money too big a gamble. You don't pay max contracts to players you have to develop, you pay max contracts to players that are ready to go. You develop rookies, like McGary, Mr Double-double in nine minutes and actually has the stones to take a charge.

When he continues on with his -0.7 net rating Donovan will have no choice but sit him down and Enes will piss and moan just like he did in Utah about how unfairly he is being treated and want to be traded.

Has anyone that tries to justify Enes not playing defense because he was never "properly coached" ever considered he has pocketed nearly $19 million in 4 years. More than enough to hire the best defensive tutors on the planet during his off seasons if he felt he wasn't being coached properly and actually wanted to improve. He doesn't, he would rather blame someone else than take responsibility for his own failure.

Enes is quick as a cat on offense then looks like he is stuck in the mud on defense... BS... it is not a matter of Kanter can't play defense, it's a case of "Enes" WON'T play defense. Pay him a max contract after 4 years of zero effort on that end of the floor and all you've done is guarantee he won't apply himself. Why should he?

[bondom34]

I'm with you on the draft soonerule and just hoping the best w/ Kanter. Either he signs cheap or Donovan gets to him.

[Pillendreher]

Enes is quick as a cat on offense then looks like he is stuck in the mud on defense... BS... it is not a matter of Kanter can't play defense, it's a case of "Enes" WON'T play defense. Pay him a max contract after 4 years of zero effort on that end of the floor and all you've done is guarantee he won't apply himself. Why should he?

That's something that made me wonder as well. He can move very smartly in the PnR, but he's too slow on the defensive end? I don't buy it.

I talked to some german Utah Jazz fans after the trade and they told me that it seems like Kanter's is heavily influenced by ppl in his circle, especially by his agent. It seems like that guy has been trying to hype Kanter ever since he joined the leagued and has somehow got it into his head that Kanter's already one of the best players in the league and doesn't get enough respect for that.

I really hope the franchise can talk some sense into him. The talent is there, but the head has to be there as well.

[spearsy23]

Kanter isn't really quick on either end, but he's VERY smart around the basket. He has great hands, and does the best job I've ever seen of getting his shot up around defenders. He's incredibly patient and doesn't rush, which leads to shot blockers being out of position and turns contested lay ups into open ones. He isn't a spectacular athlete and expecting him to ever be good in P&R defense is like expecting Robes to become a deadeye 3 point shooter. Turn the expectations down to 'adequate, maybe a little less' and then blame him for not reaching that point.

[Soonerule]

. Turn the expectations down to 'adequate, maybe a little less' and then blame him for not reaching that point.

I did, and I'm willing to bet Utah did as well. Utah dumped him. They set his value at $8 mil/yr and when he turned it down they took the first offer they got. They thought so little of him they weren't even willing to wait to see what he went for in the open market. Look at what they got for him. A perennial D-Leaguer, an aging center they cut at their earliest convenience, the rights to a player that has yet to average double figures in the Euro League and will be at least 27 before he ever gets a sniff of the NBA and a 1st round pick they can't use for 3 years.

If Presti signs Kanter and KD leaves, that 1st round pick will be the best part of the trade because this team goes from a contender to a disaster overnight and that is what Utah is betting on.

[Soonerule]

Enes is quick as a cat on offense then looks like he is stuck in the mud on defense... BS... it is not a matter of Kanter can't play defense, it's a case of "Enes" WON'T play defense. Pay him a max contract after 4 years of zero effort on that end of the floor and all you've done is guarantee he won't apply himself. Why should he?

That's something that made me wonder as well. He can move very smartly in the PnR, but he's too slow on the defensive end? I don't buy it.

I talked to some german Utah Jazz fans after the trade and they told me that it seems like Kanter's is heavily influenced by ppl in his circle, especially by his agent. It seems like that guy has been trying to hype Kanter ever since he joined the leagued and has somehow got it into his head that Kanter's already one of the best players in the league and doesn't get enough respect for that.

I really hope the franchise can talk some sense into him. The talent is there, but the head has to be there as well.

Do some research on Mr Max Ergul and I think you will find your Deutsche sources are correct. Enes cried about his lack of playing time that increased every season he was with the Jazz and Ergul backed him up. After sitting an entire year at Kentucky he averaged 13.2 minutes as a rookie, 15.4 his second season, 26.7 his third, and 28.5 last year. Let's compare that to Jeremy Lamb's 5.9 as a rookie, 19.7 his second, and 13.5 last year. PJ? 7.4, 12.3, 14.7.

Enes Kanter averaged more minutes his rookie season than Jones got his first 2 seasons and PJ started last year averaging 15 pts/gm and shooting 33% beyond the arc before he got hurt.

Playing defense is hard work and Enes, the son of a doctor, has had everything handed to him on a silver platter his entire life and never had to work for anything. He isn't going to suddenly have some life changing epiphany and start now.... especially if he is handed a max contract that confirms his bad work ethic and with Daddy and Mr Ergul pampering him all the time. It's just that simple.

[Soonerule]

I'm with you on the draft soonerule and just hoping the best w/ Kanter. Either he signs cheap or Donovan gets to him.

Ever heard the term "wish in one hand and s%#@ in the other and see which one fills up first"?

If I'm Presti, here is my play. Make the qualifying offer and if Kanter gets an offer over $9 or $10 mil, let him go.

[bondom34]

I'm with you on the draft soonerule and just hoping the best w/ Kanter. Either he signs cheap or Donovan gets to him.

Ever heard the term "wish in one hand and s%#@ in the other and see which one fills up first"?

If I'm Presti, here is my play. Make the qualifying offer and if Kanter gets an offer over $9 or $10 mil, let him go.

I'm willing to go a bit higher, but have a feeling he won't get much more tbh.

[Soonerule]

I'm with you on the draft soonerule and just hoping the best w/ Kanter. Either he signs cheap or Donovan gets to him.

Ever heard the term "wish in one hand and s%#@ in the other and see which one fills up first"?

If I'm Presti, here is my play. Make the qualifying offer and if Kanter gets an offer over $9 or $10 mil, let him go.

I'm willing to go a bit higher, but have a feeling he won't get much more tbh.

I have a feeling Presti is counting on that. His numbers are out there for every GM to see, as are his interviews and the amount he turned down in Utah is common knowledge. The Jazz know what he is worth, but they knew someone would lust over his offense and make an offer they wouldn't match and got what they could. Presti is betting that even though Enes said he was now happy for the first time in his playing career, the other GM's take note that Enes still won't play defense and his -0.7 net in OKC backs that up and he gets him for $9 vs the $15 he would have been offered had Utah not traded him.

[tleikheen]

Utah dumped him.

You have issues with Kanter...you sound just like the irrational Utah posters who hate Kanter cuz he spurned their hand in marriage

Kanter asked to be traded and the hate started ,and he wasnt dumped Presti was quick to go after him...your suppose to be a OKC fan why are you misrepresenting how OKC got Kanter from Utah

Im a Utah and OKC fan and saw how it went down,and Kanter was part of the wasted year with Burks under Ty Corbin .Everyone agrees on that.

Kanter just turned 23,and last year he had 9 games of 20 points plus/13 rebounds plus including 5/of the last 8 games of the season when OKC was desperately trying to make the playoffs..........Adams had zero games of 20/13,Serge Ibaka had 2 games of 20/13

If you watched any Utah games that Kanter played instead of reading the posts of the spurned Utah fans you'd know that Coach Snyder was trying to make Kanter a stretch 4 type player,when he went to OKC he was unleashed in the middle

[tleikheen]

take it one more step....Kanter had ....14 >>>>>>20 pt/10 rebound games.........Adams Zero games ...Ibaka 5 games
Its called production and 9/10 million isn't getting him
You put a healthy Durant,Westbrook,Kanter,Ibaka, Roberson on the floor ,you have a serious contender ,sorry but Golden State would have a hard time stopping this team fro scoring baskets

[Soonerule]

Utah dumped him.

You have issues with Kanter...you sound just like the irrational Utah posters who hate Kanter cuz he spurned their hand in marriage

Kanter asked to be traded and the hate started ,and he wasnt dumped Presti was quick to go after him...your suppose to be a OKC fan why are you misrepresenting how OKC got Kanter from Utah

Im a Utah and OKC fan and saw how it went down,and Kanter was part of the wasted year with Burks under Ty Corbin .Everyone agrees on that.

Kanter just turned 23,and last year he had 9 games of 20 points plus/13 rebounds plus including 5/of the last 8 games of the season when OKC was desperately trying to make the playoffs..........Adams had zero games of 20/13,Serge Ibaka had 2 games of 20/13

If you watched any Utah games that Kanter played instead of reading the posts of the spurned Utah fans you'd know that Coach Snyder was trying to make Kanter a stretch 4 type player,when he went to OKC he was unleashed in the middle

Number 1, I don't read Utah fan posts, I do my own research. Presti went after Enes because he wasn't going to resign Perk and it made the money work out right. When it was all said and done the Thunder pocketed a million six they wouldn't have had if they had just traded Reggie Jackson for DJ and Singler and they got a chance to see Kanter up close. Turned out he was just as advertised, peach cobbler on offense and a mud pie on defense.

All I knew about Kanter was he struggled defensively but I had high hopes for him and my evaluation of Enes began on February 21st, there was ZERO prejudice involved. I saw very quickly, with "my own" eyes, why Snyder tried to make Kanter a stretch 4. Every single time Kanter played center in OKC opposing offenses attacked him like a school of hungry piranha going after a pork chop.

THAT is when I started watching his Utah videos. Same results, different jersey color. period. When Kanter's offense deteriorated at the 4 and his defense was still killing the Jazz they traded him and their winning percentage nearly doubled.

IMMEDIATELY after the trade the Jazz beat Portland, a healthy Portland, holding them to 76 pts. They held the defending NBA champion Spurs to 81 beating them in their next outing. They went on to beat Memphis, holding them to 82 pts... on THEIR floor. They stifled the Rockets for 91 beating them but at least they broke 90, the Thunder didn't, WITH KANTER.

And FYI, the Thunder were better when Kanter played the 4 alongside Adams playing the 5, not much, but a little. You can throw his offensive numbers out there til your hair falls out and it will not counter Kanter's -0.7 net rating. That means the Thunder were better when Kanter was on the bench.

After the trade, the Jazz weren't just a good defensive team, they put up all-time defensive numbers and if you spread their winning percentage over the entire season they would have won the Northwest Division and been the 4th seed in the west. One would think a self proclaimed Jazz fan would know that and that is why I don't read Utah fan posts.

I could care less about the Jazz, or their fan's posts, and it took all of 15 minutes research to get those facts.

[Soonerule]

take it one more step....Kanter had ....14 >>>>>>20 pt/10 rebound games.........Adams Zero games ...Ibaka 5 games
Its called production and 9/10 million isn't getting him
You put a healthy Durant,Westbrook,Kanter,Ibaka, Roberson on the floor ,you have a serious contender ,sorry but Golden State would have a hard time stopping this team fro scoring baskets

-0.7 net, it's called a screen door on the bottom of a row boat.

[spearsy23]

Letting him walk for nothing would be stupid. Even at 15 million per year there will be plenty of teams that want him after the cap goes up.

[bondom34]

Yep, issue w/ letting him go is that they can't sign a replacement, so its him or nothing unless they draft a big, which I don't think is worth it either.

[Soonerule]

Letting him walk for nothing would be stupid. Even at 15 million per year there will be plenty of teams that want him after the cap goes up.

If someone could put that in writing I'd say take a chance. Pouring good money after bad hoping someone will bail you out when it goes south will usually get your tighty-whiteys in a wringer every time.

[spearsy23]

Letting him walk for nothing would be stupid. Even at 15 million per year there will be plenty of teams that want him after the cap goes up.

If someone could put that in writing I'd say take a chance. Pouring good money after bad hoping someone will bail you out when it goes south will usually get your tighty-whiteys in a wringer every time.

If we don't sign him we still don't have cap to sign anyone. Unless you think Kanter is literally worse than no-one, it makes no sense to let him walk. This isn't an investment, this is house money.

[tleikheen]

I do my own research.

you looked at stats and saw some video ,you didn't actually watch any of the games he played when with Utah

I saw very quickly, with "my own" eyes, why Snyder tried to make Kanter a stretch 4.

because he was a better shooter and ball handler than Favors ,Favors was limited to only inside play

Every single time Kanter played center in OKC opposing offenses attacked him like a school of hungry piranha going after a pork chop

exactly how many practices did he have with OKC after he got there ,not many I'd say

IMMEDIATELY after the trade the Jazz beat Portland, a healthy Portland, holding them to 76 pts. They held the defending NBA champion Spurs to 81 beating them in their next outing. They went on to beat Memphis, holding them to 82 pts... on THEIR floor. They stifled the Rockets for 91 beating them but at least they broke 90, the Thunder didn't, WITH KANTER.

Also Trey Burke was benched and Dante Exum was inserted as PG....A huge difference at the point of attack ,when their is a sieve at the PG then defenses break down their and Kanter wasn't good enough ,Exum would have made a difference when Kanter was playing

Utah played at a 50-win pace when Exum was on the floor and a 34-win pace when he was off.

you can throw his offensive numbers out there til your hair falls out and it will not counter Kanter's -0.7 net rating.

are you trying to say this will continue even with Durant coming back as well

The good teams play to their players strengths ,with Kanter ,OKC can lead the NBA in sc oring as well as rebounding...with a healthy Durant and the addition of Kanter.......Golden State would have had a hard time beating OKC and youd be singing a different tune