Interesting arguments for drafting Willie Cauley-Stein

[313 Professor]

> Big-men traditionally get grossly overpaid if they display any elite skill or just if they have potential. Cauley-Stein developing into the premier defensive big he projects to be could be excellent value on a rookie contract that could be potentially traded later for great value or kept to help make a good defense.

> Defense wins championships. Having two potential defensive anchors who legit protect the rim in Drummond & Stein with both the 2nd and 1st units can come up big with matchups and in the playoffs. We saw Tristan Thompson's value switching on P&R's in the Finals. Bigs that can protect the rim and guard pick & roll are nearly impossible to get. GS had to trade Monta Ellis just to get Bogut (even though they are different players). Make sure at all times one of them is in.

> WCS can play the 4. Spacing wouldn't be good on offense unless he really gets that mid-range J down which is possible, but a P&R heavy, penetrate and crash the glass style offense would work well. Drummond and WCS would have excellent length and would be great on the offensive glass. A drive and chuck strategy almost looking for OREB putbacks could be efficient. He can obviously (hopefully) defend the position as well adding length on D.

> Who better to draft? We have 3 potential playmakers in Jennings, RJ, and Dinwiddie, shooting in KCP, Meeks, Tolliver, & Illyasova, why not try to invest in a stout frontline defense to balance out the finesse frontcourt players we have? The wings likely to be available at #8 don't have high upside to be stars.

> We have a glaring hole at the 3, but the 3 is the easiest position to fill. KCP can play the 3 with solid rim protection and help D at all times, and while undersized he competes and matches up well because of his motor and physicality. All you need at the 3 on a team with playmakers and rim protectors is a player that can score off open looks at a respectable clip, and has solid enough size and will to compete on defense (can be somewhat of liability on D). KCP can run there, and even last year's Tayshaun/Caron can. A lineup of Jennings/RJ/???/Stein/Drummond has enough playmaking and rim protection where anybody that can shoot 35+% consistently from 3 (hopefully better) with average physical tools can play there (Singler-tier). Lineups of Jennings/Dinwiddie/???/Illyasova/Stein or RJ/Dinwiddie/???/Tolliver/Drummond same thing.

> Our current roster We have the privilege of having 2 playmaking guards with the size and length to defend 2's moderately well (RJ & SD), two stretch 4's (AT & EI), and would have 2 rim protecting bigs (AD & WCS). The 3's job shouldn't be hard. WCS would have to improve his DREB to hold down the 5 and develop as projected, and this is assuming Jennings has a full recovery. But, it could be smarter to make the frontline legit and fill the 3 hole with KCP, or pretty much anybody available that can at least shoot. If Cartier Martin can get his shot down he of all people might be able to give all we would need there.

> We need a backup C Drummond plays around 30 a night. There are 18 MPG there. Aaron Gray is gone and Joel Anthony is a FA. To mix it up and take shooting out and put defense in at the 4.......what's wrong with two athletic 7 footers? Having Drummond here takes pressure off of WCS in his development too because he doesn't have to be that guy right away and would have a tag team partner.

Start:
Jennings/RJ/KCP/Illyasova/Drummond
Alt. Lineups:
Jennings/Meeks/KCP/Stein/Drummond
RJ/Dinwiddie/Martin*/Tolliver/Stein
Jennings/Dinwiddie/KCP/Illyasova/Drummond


Thoughts?

*Hopefully we could maybe pick up somebody better in FA to add depth at the 3 other than Cartier Martin like a Deng, Alan Anderson, idk

[Pharaoh]

If Stan opts for WCS I won't be upset.

[ImHeisenberg]

The wings likely to be available at #8 don't have high upside to be stars.

We have a glaring hole at the 3, but the 3 is the easiest position to fill.

Nice post overall. But these stuck out like a sore thumb, as the first statement is conjecture- WCS is a junior that may have chronic foot problems stemming from his fractured foot. Hezonja, Stan Johnson, Winslow and Oubre all have much higher perceived upsides than WCS, with no injury history to boot. Winslow and Johnson could easily develop into two-way forces in the NBA. Oubre has a similar build to Kawhi Leonard, physically.

And if small forward is so easy to fill, why has it been a position of weakness for us for the last 3-5 years? The last four championships were won with play by spectacular small forwards.

Here are the last four championships MVP's- Andre Igoudala (SF), Kawhi Leonard (SF), LeBron James (SF), LeBron James (SF). See a trend? A necessity to place an emphasis on that position of need? Not only is their a trend of teams with high quality small forwards having deep playoff runs, you also need people that can guard players like that as well- especially in the East, where you see LeBron, Paul George and Carmelo four times a season.

I'll take the wing with upside, over the older defensive ace with potential foot problems. Thanks.

[tmorgan]

I'm on board with WCS over SJ, as I'm not convinced Johnson is going to score with any efficiency. Still prefer Justise and Mario over Willie, though. It's close.

[Piston Pete]

I guess I'll agree to disagree here.

I think Stanley Johnson (as I think Winslow and Mario are gone by #8) would help our team more than a backup PF/C with foot issues.

Johnson also projects to be a plus defender while also having offensive upside. So its not like we'd be drafting a defensive sieve either way....but Johnson:

1) Plays a bigger position of need (SF)
2) Plays good defense
3) Has offensive upside
4) Has great size for a SF
5) Is pretty athletic
6) Can play PF in "small ball" lineups

[Moses ShamMoses]

I'm on board with WCS over SJ, as I'm not convinced Johnson is going to score with any efficiency. Still prefer Justise and Mario over Willie, though. It's close.

This is pretty much how I feel. I'd only consider taking WCS if both Winslow and Hezonja are off the board. I'm not a big Stan Johnson fan . I really want to get excited about Stanley but I just cant. I've watched him live and in highlight videos and he doesn't really impress me. His shot is wonky and doesn't seem all that athletic. I'd also consider Kaminsky if Winslow and Hezonja are picked first. I think people are sleeping on Kaminsky.

[Pharaoh]

Are the foot issues legit?

Up until 24 hours ago they didn't exist but now it's a massive red flag...

Smokescreen?

[Piston Pete]

I dunno, but big men tend to have foot issues anyway....and WCS already has a pin in there. How long until he has chronic foot issues?

[Kilo]

If Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja and Winslow are off the board I'd be all for Willie Cauley Stein being our pick. But we never brought him in for a workout which is probably a huge tell. I mean we brought in 51 guys and not Willie, who worked out for teams behind us so it's not like he was refusing workouts as he thought he was a lock to go before we pick.

But I see him as a small ball killer. Teams try to small ball against us and Willie could guard anybody they put at center and chase them all over, but that player couldn't guard the very athletic seven footer in the low post when we have the ball. Dre also gets into foul trouble still, and in the past we had the great luxury of just shifting Monroe over to center - we don't have that now. There will be a HUGE drop off between Dre and Anthony(or whomever scrap heap center we sign on here in FA otherwise). Drafting Willie would also let us play the same offense and defense the full 48 minutes and Willie can get up and down the floor like Stan wants with Dre (has Dre losing weight this off-season to be able to run better) and Willie could patrol the low post defensively likely with better instincts than Dre already.

We draft Willie and try to develop some sort of midrange game out of him for a few seasons while backing up Dre in the interim. If he develops enough away from the basket offensive game and thus can play with Dre we'd have an epic big man front court, and if he proves just to be a center and better than a back-up we could trade him into a starting gig and his acquiring team would pay though the nose to get him.

[theBigLip]

If there are foot issues, we should pass. If that is true, he will drop like a rock on Thursday.

[Ghost]

I wouldn't be mad with the pick because then we have two extremely athletic big men who can defend, rebound both sides, block shots, and finish with lobs. The ability to switch or actually guard stretch4s would be nice too and we would not need to rush him due to the Ilyasova trade.

If there are foot issues, we should pass. If that is true, he will drop like a rock on Thursday.

Agreed.

[MotownMadness]

Personally I think he's becoming a bit overrated. I could understand a team without a athletic big wanting to take him in the top10 but it would be a waste when we already have one of the biggest most athletic and best rebounding bigs in the game. WCS is just a lob and putback type of athletic big but he's nowhere near Drummond type of dominant in the paint.

[Snakebites]

I want us to trade down if none of the "top 7" are around (Towns, Okafor, Porzingis, Herzjonja, Winslow, Muiday, Russell).

[theBigLip]

I want us to trade down if none of the "top 7" are around (Towns, Okafor, Porzingis, Herzjonja, Winslow, Muiday, Russell).

I pretty much agree, it now looks like WCS is just not part of the top 8.

Turner might be worth taking - backup at 4 and 5? Not sure if we can trade down very much and still get him.

[Snakebites]

I want us to trade down if none of the "top 7" are around (Towns, Okafor, Porzingis, Herzjonja, Winslow, Muiday, Russell).

I pretty much agree, it now looks like WCS is just not part of the top 8.

Turner might be worth taking - backup at 4 and 5? Not sure if we can trade down very much and still get him.

He's not part of the top 8 for us. Hopefully someone else disagrees.

It wouldn't be the first time last minute health concerns get discussed in the media that ultimately have no factor in a players' stock.

[A_dub06]

We don't need WCS and I don't think we should pass up on a player that fits our most needed position and the argument of WCS having more upside is debatable meaning we go with the better fit.

All I can say is f*** f*** f***! Why does the foot injury and cell disease need to spike up now. My belief is that there's no way now WCS goes top 7 and the only chance we have of drafting a better prospect in Winslow is if NYK end up trading their pick. Anythings possible but I've already told myself were drafting Johnson so I don't have a tantrum when we draft him Friday (in my country anyway haha).


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[DBC10]

Bird absolutely covets him so it wouldn't surprise me if he was the one who let it "slip" about his foot and exasperated the issue.

[Snakebites]

We don't need WCS and I don't think we should pass up on a player that fits our most needed position and the argument of WCS having more upside is debatable meaning we go with the better fit.

All I can say is f*** f*** f***! Why does the foot injury and cell disease need to spike up now. My belief is that there's no way now WCS goes top 7 and the only chance we have of drafting a better prospect in Winslow is if NYK end up trading their pick. Anythings possible but I've already told myself were drafting Johnson so I don't have a tantrum when we draft him Friday (in my country anyway haha).


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The cell disease thing has been known about for like 2 years. I don't think anyone cares about it. The foot thing, that one could be a fly in the ointment, so to speak.

Man, I just don't want Johnson. Again, I really hope I'm wrong about him, since I am starting to get the feeling he's going to be a Piston.

[313 Professor]

We don't need WCS and I don't think we should pass up on a player that fits our most needed position and the argument of WCS having more upside is debatable meaning we go with the better fit.

All I can say is f*** f*** f***! Why does the foot injury and cell disease need to spike up now. My belief is that there's no way now WCS goes top 7 and the only chance we have of drafting a better prospect in Winslow is if NYK end up trading their pick. Anythings possible but I've already told myself were drafting Johnson so I don't have a tantrum when we draft him Friday (in my country anyway haha).


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The cell disease thing has been known about for like 2 years. I don't think anyone cares about it. The foot thing, that one could be a fly in the ointment, so to speak.

Man, I just don't want Johnson. Again, I really hope I'm wrong about him, since I am starting to get the feeling he's going to be a Piston.

I feel you on Johnson. I wouldn't mind the pick but I just don't want him either at this point. I've seen him play, and seen the videos. I think he'll be solid everywhere but unspectacular and unable to take over or dominate anywhere if that makes sense. That is a good player but at 8 I think I would lean towards WCS right now. Having two athletic 7 footers that can play defense just seems like the most value we could get. Stein is like an oversized 4 that can rim protect. How rare is that? Hopefully this foot thing clears up. We've seen him play on it at a high level.

[313 Professor]

The wings likely to be available at #8 don't have high upside to be stars.

We have a glaring hole at the 3, but the 3 is the easiest position to fill.

Nice post overall. But these stuck out like a sore thumb, as the first statement is conjecture- WCS is a junior that may have chronic foot problems stemming from his fractured foot. Hezonja, Stan Johnson, Winslow and Oubre all have much higher perceived upsides than WCS, with no injury history to boot. Winslow and Johnson could easily develop into two-way forces in the NBA. Oubre has a similar build to Kawhi Leonard, physically.

And if small forward is so easy to fill, why has it been a position of weakness for us for the last 3-5 years? The last four championships were won with play by spectacular small forwards.

Here are the last four championships MVP's- Andre Igoudala (SF), Kawhi Leonard (SF), LeBron James (SF), LeBron James (SF). See a trend? A necessity to place an emphasis on that position of need? Not only is their a trend of teams with high quality small forwards having deep playoff runs, you also need people that can guard players like that as well- especially in the East, where you see LeBron, Paul George and Carmelo four times a season.

I'll take the wing with upside, over the older defensive ace with potential foot problems. Thanks.

If Winslow falls to us I'm all for taking him. Easy pick. He is the only wing I've seen with high upside to be great both sides. Don't think he falls though. Hezonja and Johnson don't really impress me they seem like great role players. WCS projects as more of a role player too just with a more important role with his length and defensive versatility as a rare frontline talent. There is nothing really rare about Hezonja or Johnson to me.

SF is easy to fill because of the team we have set up. We don't need playmaking from the 3, and with 2 good bigs we don't need great defense. It all depends on the other pieces. Iggy, Kawhi, & LeBron are all rare talent stars. I don't see that being available in this draft or in FA unless Winslow falls.

I agree being able to match-up at SF being important but with good team and help defense it becomes less of a problem. If we were to draft WCS I would still be an advocate for bringing a true 3 in to add to the roster because we don't really have one. KCP is more of a 2-3 guy, but bringing in a more 3-4 type player to match up physically with bigger more athletic wings would be nice. I just don't think he has to come from the draft. If you don't draft a big like WCS you don't get another shot at him unless you're overpaying drastically in FA.