OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[bondom34]

Fun fact: Synergy Sports has Kanter as an at least decent defender in his time with the Thunder:

-80.8 percentile PnR Roll-Man defense (somehow only 10 % frequency)
-59,6 percentile Post-Up defense (19% frequency)
-91.4 percentile Spot-Up defense (16.8% frequency)
-25,6 percentile Isolation defense (10.8% frequency)

Give both the kid and the franchise some time. I'm sure they can talk some sense into him. Collison and Ibaka have all the time in the world to help him improve his defense. The whole last season was a mess. I want to see Kanter with Ibaka, Robes, Durant and Westbrook beside him (without Westbrook going after every steal like a maniac of course).

Time is a luxury the Thunder are running out of. Two years ago I may have felt differently.

I have thought about Kanter a lot and I can only come up with one scenario that may explain many of his problems on defense.... a language barrier.

I know he speaks English very well, but I think I see him translating some questions in his mind during interviews, especially complex questions. He still asks interviewers to repeat complex questions. Before I invested anything close to a max contract on him, I would test him. I would hire an expert translator and have him say things to Kanter in English and have him say it back in Turkish to find out how well he is processing information he receives in English.

Communicating is vital when playing defense, and complex at times. If he is out there guessing it could explain why he wanders around like a lost puppy most of the time.

Try an experiment. Use Google translate and write a semi complex sentence in English and have it translate it to Turkish. Then, copy/paste the translation and have it translate it back to English.... it will blow you away. It won't even be close. If Enes is having 10% of the problem Google Translate has translating English to Turkish or vice versa that very well could be the problem.

I would doggone sure find out before I invested an eight digit/yr contract on him because if that isn't the issue, then it's all on Kanter. He has said in every exit interview he has ever done that he would work on his defense and shown little or no improvement. If communication isn't the problem, what would make me believe next year will be any different? Fifth time is a charm?

This is fun:

I got lost on the way to the men's restroom and found myself in the kitchen next to a toaster oven.

Is:

Önümüzdeki bir tost makinesi fırın için erkekler tuvaletine giden yolda kaybetti ve mutfakta buldum var .

Which going back is:

Men next to a toaster oven I got lost on the way to the toilet and in the kitchen.

Ah I'm a child.

[spearsy23]

Using online translators is nothing like actually translating. I'm assuming that was a joke, but still context is too important in language for a simple dictionary software to imitate it.

[Soonerule]

Using online translators is nothing like actually translating. I'm assuming that was a joke, but still context is too important in language for a simple dictionary software to imitate it.

No spearsy, it was no joke, just like paying $15 mil/yr for a one way player is no joke. Your right, context is important and that is exactly my point.

It is pretty obvious Kanter never tried to develop his defensive skills when he was younger. He was always big and didn't really need to. If he is truly trying to improve them now but struggling to understand the complexities because the information is coming too fast or he is confused by slang terms and too proud to admit it because he is embarrassed then there is the problem. The good part is that it is a problem that could be easily addressed and well worth investing a few bucks to hire an expert translator for a few hours to find out.

Do you know how Kanter learned English? Watching Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons. There is nothing wrong with that, but I have been stuck watching that crap with my grandkids and I don't see too much dialogue that would help with NBA defensive lingo.

[spearsy23]

Using online translators is nothing like actually translating. I'm assuming that was a joke, but still context is too important in language for a simple dictionary software to imitate it.

No spearsy, it was no joke, just like paying $15 mil/yr for a one way player is no joke. Your right, context is important and that is exactly my point.

It is pretty obvious Kanter never tried to develop his defensive skills when he was younger. He was always big and didn't really need to. If he is truly trying to improve them now but struggling to understand the complexities because the information is coming too fast or he is confused by slang terms and too proud to admit it because he is embarrassed then there is the problem. The good part is that it is a problem that could be easily addressed and well worth investing a few bucks to hire an expert translator for a few hours to find out.

Do you know how Kanter learned English? Watching Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons. There is nothing wrong with that, but I have been stuck watching that crap with my grandkids and I don't see too much dialogue that would help with NBA defensive lingo.

Most bigs struggle with defense into their early-mid 20's. They've all gotten by on size prior to the NBA, Adams is still a poor defender by all of the metrics I've looked at. Andre Drummond is still bad. It has nothing to do with language, and it's a bit ridiculous to suggest.

[Balkman32]

If Kanter gets a max deal do the Thunder match the offer?

I don't think anyone will give him an offer because it's not worth waiting the 3 days to see what Presti does. The Thunder will probably match anything. Then trade him if it's just too much money.

[Soonerule]

Using online translators is nothing like actually translating. I'm assuming that was a joke, but still context is too important in language for a simple dictionary software to imitate it.

No spearsy, it was no joke, just like paying $15 mil/yr for a one way player is no joke. Your right, context is important and that is exactly my point.

It is pretty obvious Kanter never tried to develop his defensive skills when he was younger. He was always big and didn't really need to. If he is truly trying to improve them now but struggling to understand the complexities because the information is coming too fast or he is confused by slang terms and too proud to admit it because he is embarrassed then there is the problem. The good part is that it is a problem that could be easily addressed and well worth investing a few bucks to hire an expert translator for a few hours to find out.

Do you know how Kanter learned English? Watching Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons. There is nothing wrong with that, but I have been stuck watching that crap with my grandkids and I don't see too much dialogue that would help with NBA defensive lingo.

Most bigs struggle with defense into their early-mid 20's. They've all gotten by on size prior to the NBA, Adams is still a poor defender by all of the metrics I've looked at. Andre Drummond is still bad. It has nothing to do with language, and it's a bit ridiculous to suggest.

The metric I go by is the scoreboard and watching the opposing team's score explode every time Kanter is out there with no one to babysit him. That metric slows down when Adams gets on the floor, even when he is the only big, even more so when the other big isn't Enes. Adams has only been in the league 2 years vs Kanter's 4. So if it isn't a language barrier issue, what's holding Kanter back? Kanter perhaps?

[Soonerule]

Rudy Gobert is only 22 and been in the league half the time Kanter has been, doesn't seem to slow his defense down too bad.

[spearsy23]

So if it isn't a language barrier issue, what's holding Kanter back? Kanter perhaps?

Athleticism, coaching and IQ. Players develop at different rates, Kanter has become a dominant rebounding and offensive big by 23 years old. That's nothing to scoff at. Gobert has physical tools that Kanter can only dream of, he's still playing with a bunch of high schooler's in comparison to his size and length. Kanter sucks defensively, he sucks because he hasn't worked hard enough at it, hasn't been in any system for more than a year, and has been played out of position. That's partially on him, but you must have missed Adams being on the floor while we were getting lit up the last 1.5 months of the season too. Once again, letting an 18/9 big walk, not gaining any cap space, and opening another hole in the roster, all whilethe salary cap jumps 20 million after next season, would be stupid.

[Soonerule]

So if it isn't a language barrier issue, what's holding Kanter back? Kanter perhaps?

Athleticism, coaching and IQ. Players develop at different rates, Kanter has become a dominant rebounding and offensive big by 23 years old. That's nothing to scoff at. Gobert has physical tools that Kanter can only dream of, he's still playing with a bunch of high schooler's in comparison to his size and length. Kanter sucks defensively, he sucks because he hasn't worked hard enough at it, hasn't been in any system for more than a year, and has been played out of position. That's partially on him, but you must have missed Adams being on the floor while we were getting lit up the last 1.5 months of the season too. Once again, letting an 18/9 big walk, not gaining any cap space, and opening another hole in the roster, all whilethe salary cap jumps 20 million after next season, would be stupid.

At least we found common ground... Kanter sucks at defense because he hasn't worked hard enough on it. (oh, and for the record, I didn't say the opponents scoreboard stopped with Adams, I just said it slowed down... he needs work too, but he isn't going to cost $12-$15 mil next year while he's learning and I know he will work on it)

Now we can talk in realities. I've pretty much reconciled with the fact that Presti is going to sign this guy.... then what?

Kanter's party is over.... that's what. Last season was fast and loose, fun and games, and Kanter had a ball. Reality sets in when training camp starts. Once he is signed and the Thunder have him by the gonads, that strange sensation Kanter feels in the seat of his pants will be Donovan's foot up his arse.

I truly hope he responds well, but $15 mil is a lot to pay to find out. We're getting pretty close to that June 30th deadline so I think Presti is just going to make a qualifying offer and then hope Kanter gets only a 2 year offer he has to match. If it plays out that way I'll feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Because Kanter's history suggests he won't respond well and the Thunder are not a rebuilding team that has time for him to fumble around trying to figure it all out. Especially next season. If he is still producing at a negative net next year, at some point Donovan will be forced to bench him. Then what? He had a hissy fit when his minutes dropped in Utah and demanded to be traded. Basically the 22 year old equivalent of "I'm taking my toys and going home".

It's different this year? He is about to start a season with yet another new coach, just like last year. He will have strong defensive players around him, just like last year. I will concede there are some differences. This year he will be playing with players he is unfamiliar with and with KD returning his offense won't be quite as important as it was in Utah. as it was after the trade last season with us for that matter. It would be nice, but only if it doesn't kill us at the other end.

It really doesn't matter, in a hundred years, who will care?

[Marcus50]

So if it isn't a language barrier issue, what's holding Kanter back? Kanter perhaps?

Athleticism, coaching and IQ. Players develop at different rates, Kanter has become a dominant rebounding and offensive big by 23 years old. That's nothing to scoff at. Gobert has physical tools that Kanter can only dream of, he's still playing with a bunch of high schooler's in comparison to his size and length. Kanter sucks defensively, he sucks because he hasn't worked hard enough at it, hasn't been in any system for more than a year, and has been played out of position. That's partially on him, but you must have missed Adams being on the floor while we were getting lit up the last 1.5 months of the season too. Once again, letting an 18/9 big walk, not gaining any cap space, and opening another hole in the roster, all whilethe salary cap jumps 20 million after next season, would be stupid.

For the last 1.5 months of the season Adams was played out of position at defensive PF to cater to Kanter's terrible defense. I don't want to see Kanter and Adams on the court together at all next season.

[KD35Brah]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/613167668561072128[/tweet]

[Zack M]

Well that's just an awful reason to keep him. Again, they need a backup big, but Westbrook's numbers are the least of the concerns.

That's naïve of you.

You get players who play to the strengths of your stars...and cosidering how WB's assists rate skyrocketed....Kanter sure as hell plays to the strength of Westbrook.

[bondom34]

Well that's just an awful reason to keep him. Again, they need a backup big, but Westbrook's numbers are the least of the concerns.

That's naïve of you.

You get players who play to the strengths of your stars...and cosidering how WB's assists rate skyrocketed....Kanter sure as hell plays to the strength of Westbrook.

You get players to win games. Stars want to win games, no wins, stars leave. I think Russ would rather his lower assists if it meant wins like before.

[BIG EDDIE]

Kanter is a liability on D, but paired with Ibaka in the lineup, they should be a good combo and Ibaka can get Kanter's back.

A lineup of Ibaka, KD, Kanter, Roberson and Westbrook gives you a nice balance of offensive power and defensive stability.

Then you got a bench of DJ, Morrow, Waiters, Adams, Nick and Mitch, thats quite the lineup if you ask me.
OKC needs to have an offensive and defensive system, thats up to the coaches. There is no reason this team shouldnt be a Top 5-8 defensive team next year. All the tools are given.

[Balkman32]

What would you give up for the Boogie Man?

[Pillendreher]

Waiters, PJIII, Lamb, Novak, 14, Albrines. If there's one team in the NBA that's dumb enough to go for something like that, it's the Kings.

[bondom34]

Yeah I'd trade anyone not named Durant Westbrook and Ibaka.

Kanter sign and trade, Adams, PJ, Lamb, 14, and they can send back Landry. And that's still not close.

[Pillendreher]

I don't see the Kings getting back Veteran talent. Kanter and a few pieces might be enough, especially since I don't see an equally talented player getting traded for Cousins. That almost never happens

[Andre Roberstan]

I don't see the Kings getting back Veteran talent. Kanter and a few pieces might be enough, especially since I don't see an equally talented player getting traded for Cousins. That almost never happens

Since everything we've seen about them wanting to move him comes from coach/agent, and Vlade/Vivek don't seem to want to trade him, I think it's going to take a really big offer to move Cousins. Karl might find himself expendable if he pushes too hard.

[bondom34]

I don't see the Kings getting back Veteran talent. Kanter and a few pieces might be enough, especially since I don't see an equally talented player getting traded for Cousins. That almost never happens

Since everything we've seen about them wanting to move him comes from coach/agent, and Vlade/Vivek don't seem to want to trade him, I think it's going to take a really big offer to move Cousins. Karl might find himself expendable if he pushes too hard.

I hope so, I really like Cousins and Karl seems like such an egomaniac in this.