FREE AGENT/Trade/Transaction Idea thread

[Meat]

sign and trade love for melo,

[And100]

Meaning which free agents do you think will sign here?

Monroe, Carroll, Green, Matthews, maybe Love, maybe Jordan, Milsap, Lopez (either), Ellis, Hibbert, Rondo, Asik, Young, more...

But i don't think anyone to the left side of Ellis is signing for much less than market value.

Interesting. You don't think we would need to outbid the market in order to get any of those guys to leave their current teams and join us?

Well, you can't outbid the max, which will be the market prices.

[aq_ua]

Monroe, Carroll, Green, Matthews, maybe Love, maybe Jordan, Milsap, Lopez (either), Ellis, Hibbert, Rondo, Asik, Young, more...

But i don't think anyone to the left side of Ellis is signing for much less than market value.

Interesting. You don't think we would need to outbid the market in order to get any of those guys to leave their current teams and join us?

Well, you can't outbid the max, which will be the market prices.

Your plan is to bid max contracts for all those guys? I hate your plan.

[And100]

Interesting. You don't think we would need to outbid the market in order to get any of those guys to leave their current teams and join us?

Well, you can't outbid the max, which will be the market prices.

Your plan is to bid max contracts for all those guys? I hate your plan.

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

[aq_ua]

Well, you can't outbid the max, which will be the market prices.

Your plan is to bid max contracts for all those guys? I hate your plan.

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

[And100]

Your plan is to bid max contracts for all those guys? I hate your plan.

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

You wouldn't be spending for the sake of not being "shut out", you'd be spending for the sake of not being a 17 win team, or 30 win (or whatever) team if Melo is healthy for 75+ games.

And building via the draft is fine and good so long as you're willing to overlook the 2016 problem, and that Melo probably makes you just good enough to likely not have good lottery odds in 2017.

[Dr. Detfink]

There's no other way to do this. EVERY free agent knows how much the Knicks have in cap space and will fight for every penny. If we're going to do get fleeced for the money. Go for the BEST available...

Lamarcus Aldridge sold his home in Portland. He wants to play in the spotlight. He's a big time player. I'd throw $20M/5 year deal with an opt out option.

Alongside Lamarcus at PF, sign Brandan Wright at Center for $4M/season and another center to pack him up.

Draft a PG. You have a scoring machine SF from the outside, a powerhouse inside at PF, and a PG who can drive and score at will.

When Calderon comes off the books, you can add depth at C and SG.

[aq_ua]

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

You wouldn't be spending for the sake of not being "shut out", you'd be spending for the sake of not being a 17 win team, or 30 win (or whatever) team if Melo is healthy for 75+ games.

And building via the draft is fine and good so long as you're willing to overlook the 2016 problem, and that Melo probably makes you just good enough to likely not have good lottery odds in 2017.

Or building through the draft actually means trading Melo.

[And100]

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

You wouldn't be spending for the sake of not being "shut out", you'd be spending for the sake of not being a 17 win team, or 30 win (or whatever) team if Melo is healthy for 75+ games.

And building via the draft is fine and good so long as you're willing to overlook the 2016 problem, and that Melo probably makes you just good enough to likely not have good lottery odds in 2017.

Or building through the draft actually means trading Melo.

Doesn't solve the 2016 problem. Melo isn't waiving his no trade clause to go to a lottery team. So at best you're getting some picks from a good team that is now adding Melo.

[aq_ua]

You wouldn't be spending for the sake of not being "shut out", you'd be spending for the sake of not being a 17 win team, or 30 win (or whatever) team if Melo is healthy for 75+ games.

And building via the draft is fine and good so long as you're willing to overlook the 2016 problem, and that Melo probably makes you just good enough to likely not have good lottery odds in 2017.

Or building through the draft actually means trading Melo.

Doesn't solve the 2016 problem. Melo isn't waiving his no trade clause to go to a lottery team. So at best you're getting some picks from a good team that is now adding Melo.

You think I want to build for 2016 or something beyond that? There are also such things as three way trades where we can get lottery picks where Melo can still end up with a competitive team.

[AlphakirA]

Your plan is to bid max contracts for all those guys? I hate your plan.

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

[aq_ua]

No, not all those guys. There is afterall, a salary cap.

But if the Knicks are to sign an attractive free agent, I can't imagine them signing for much less than the max, which was the original point, wasn't it?

Expect the Knicks to sit our or be shut out in free agency if they're expecting quality players at less than their max?

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

[And100]

Or building through the draft actually means trading Melo.

Doesn't solve the 2016 problem. Melo isn't waiving his no trade clause to go to a lottery team. So at best you're getting some picks from a good team that is now adding Melo.

You think I want to build for 2016 or something beyond that? There are also such things as three way trades where we can get lottery picks where Melo can still end up with a competitive team.

Okay then. The NY Knicks are going to sit out free agency while the cap goes to $108m. They're going to trade Melo who has a no trade clause, and start a draft only rebuild despite not having their own 2016 pick.

You're entitled to you opinion.

[aq_ua]

Doesn't solve the 2016 problem. Melo isn't waiving his no trade clause to go to a lottery team. So at best you're getting some picks from a good team that is now adding Melo.

You think I want to build for 2016 or something beyond that? There are also such things as three way trades where we can get lottery picks where Melo can still end up with a competitive team.

Okay then. The NY Knicks are going to sit out free agency while the cap goes to $108m. They're going to trade Melo who has a no trade clause, and start a draft only rebuild despite not having their own 2016 pick.

You're entitled to you opinion.

Or, we take as many of these one year contract dumps as possible for draft picks, look to trade Melo for as many rookie contracts/draft picks as possible, give the young guys (Early, Thananis, Galloway, 4th pick, etc.) as much playing time as they can handle, and hope for a 1999-00 Magic season.
I would much much rather have that than your option.

[And100]

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

Sure we have. The NY Knicks, unlike fans, are not guarantee-of-championship or bust. There is value to the Knicks of being a good team for the next several years.

The personal opinion that the Knicks should trade Melo and go full-on draft rebuild coinciding with $70+ in cap room opening up to the Knicks over the next 3 years is a perfectly valid one. But a personal opinion that has no chance of occurring, and I think in an honest moment you'd acknowledge that.

So what's left is the worst of both worlds. Carrying Melo on your roster for the remainder of this contract AND sitting out the FA market. Can't say I can make a valid argument for that approach.

[aq_ua]

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

Sure we have. The NY Knicks, unlike fans, are not guarantee-of-championship or bust. There is value to the Knicks of being a good team for the next several years.

The personal opinion that the Knicks should trade Melo and go full-on draft rebuild coinciding with $70+ in cap room opening up to the Knicks over the next 3 years is a perfectly valid one. But a personal opinion that has no chance of occurring, and I think in an honest moment you'd acknowledge that.

So what's left is the worst of both worlds. Carrying Melo on your roster for the remainder of this contract AND sitting out the FA market. Can't say I can make a valid argument for that approach.

Actually, that is the only option that has no chance of occurring. The rest is purely your own opinion based on...

[AlphakirA]

I completely believe we can do better than Carroll, Milsap and Matthews at max level contracts and would rather completely rebuild through the draft than go spend for the sake of not getting "shut out".

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

Wait...so a core of 4 guys that made it to the playoffs - 2 of which were on 60 win team, WITH one of the best offensive players in the league is..."sickening"? We DO need role players, they're exactly who make up the core. And combine a few role players with a 4th overall pick which we can assume to be either Mudiay or Porzingis and I think that's a perfectly reasonable team. What's your solution besides trading a guy that you can't trade even if you wanted to? Why couldn't Melo be the Admiral to our next Duncan? The Duncan to our next Leonard? In 2011 we saw an offensive minded forward win a championship with a 37 year old PG and a bunch of 30+ "old men". Why do you assume there's some sort of formula - especially after we just watched Golden State destroy the belief that jump shooting teams "can't win"? Didn't you notice that the actual reason Cleveland just lost is because of the lack of depth? And that GS won because they can come at you with their 8th best player?

[sportscrazy]

I know all the reasons the responses to this will hate this suggestion especially how bad the fit is, but...

Does Rondo on a one year contract (see the rumored mutual interest between Rondo and Sacramento on a one year deal) have any interest from us?

Jose Calderon and Tim Hardaway Jr. to Dallas in a sign and trade for Rajon Rondo on a 1 year deal that matches the salary ($8.5 Million)?

[And100]

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

Sure we have. The NY Knicks, unlike fans, are not guarantee-of-championship or bust. There is value to the Knicks of being a good team for the next several years.

The personal opinion that the Knicks should trade Melo and go full-on draft rebuild coinciding with $70+ in cap room opening up to the Knicks over the next 3 years is a perfectly valid one. But a personal opinion that has no chance of occurring, and I think in an honest moment you'd acknowledge that.

So what's left is the worst of both worlds. Carrying Melo on your roster for the remainder of this contract AND sitting out the FA market. Can't say I can make a valid argument for that approach.

Actually, that is the only option that has no chance of occurring. The rest is purely your own opinion based on...

Exactly right. So the Knicks ARE going to have to play the FA market, and if they want premium players they're going to hav to pay premium prices, which brings us right back to what I've been saying all along.

[aq_ua]

What's your idea of a complete rebuild? Tanking for a top tier pick? Having tons of $ to spend to build? How much more of a rebuild can the Knicks do? You want a dozen first round picks?

I don't think you can possibly call what we're doing now a full rebuild with a 31 year old star on a max contract and basically nothing else.

Fast forward 12 months, the prospect of any combination of Melo, Carroll, Milsap, Matthews and Ellis eating up our entire cap is just sickening. We don't need an upgrade of role players now - we need an actual core first. The best option we have at finding that second star is the 4th pick we currently hold, but the primes of Melo's career and that pick's career will never coincide. We haven't reconciled that aspect of the strategy.

Wait...so a core of 4 guys that made it to the playoffs - 2 of which were on 60 win team, WITH one of the best offensive players in the league is..."sickening"?

We've got circa $27mm in cap space, so this is not about signing ALL 4 guys. This is in all likelihood signing 2 out of those 4 guys. Any 2 of those 4 guys + Melo as the entirety of our space is a sickening thought, yes. By the way, there is a reason why the Hawks sent 4 guys to the all-star game - not any one or two of them were outstanding enough to be solely responsible for those 60 wins. Let's also not forget Carroll was not one of those 4 all-stars.

We DO need role players, they're exactly who make up the core. And combine a few role players with a 4th overall pick which we can assume to be either Mudiay or Porzingis and I think that's a perfectly reasonable team.

Starting from the above, we now have a team of Melo + 2 out of those 4 guys. Add Mudiay or Porzingis to that. Throw in Galloway, Early, Thanasis, maybe we bring back Shved and Bargs. Is that really better than last year?

What's your solution besides trading a guy that you can't trade even if you wanted to? Why couldn't Melo be the Admiral to our next Duncan? The Duncan to our next Leonard?

Besides the obvious answer is that Melo is not a 7 footer and it would be wrong to assume that a 6'9" small forward can extend his career the way a center can, it would be a tremendous leap of faith to assume that either Mudiay or Porzingis is going to turn out to be Duncan or Kawhi.

In 2011 we saw an offensive minded forward win a championship with a 37 year old PG and a bunch of 30+ "old men". Why do you assume there's some sort of formula - especially after we just watched Golden State destroy the belief that jump shooting teams "can't win"? Didn't you notice that the actual reason Cleveland just lost is because of the lack of depth? And that GS won because they can come at you with their 8th best player?

I don't fully follow your logic on this last point. I agree that there isn't one right way to win a championship, and there is so much luck involved that it's impossible to state unequivocally that there is a magic formula. Take your example of the 2011 championships - Spurs have the top seed in the regular season but get knocked out in the first round by the Grizzlies. If they get through, they likely end up playing and potentially beating Dallas in the conference finals.

Yes, ultimately we need depth to win, I don't think there's argument around that. The only question is the order in which and how that depth is accumulated. We need cap space flexibility, trade-able assets all the while having a core. If we lose all the first things in getting that core, then we won't have the ability to build depth around it. GS, Cleveland, Dallas are all examples of teams that built a core and kept flexibility to build depth. In fact, the Dallas example is exactly that - they drafted Dirk and weren't afraid to trade away established stars like Jason Kidd to create a core that eventually became the 2011 team.