2015 Draft Thread - Part 1

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't understand why people are complaining about Grant. He is a solid player, his game is going to translate, he is mature, works hard. And please don't give me that age BS, not at #19. If we took some up side kid and he doesn't work out, and Grant ends up as a nice player people will be changing their tune.

I like Richaun Holmes, I hope we can maybe pick him up somehow.

The assumption is that a mediocre team won't get better adding limited upside players, and in this case a guy who will be behind Wall, Beal, and Sessions on the bench. Randy will find a way to play Temple ahead of Grant, too.

I won't be upset with Grant but I will likely name 3 to 5 players who go later that I like much better than Grant. (LOONEY,Jones, Holmes, Alexander, Johnson, and Wright).

Those latter guys make more sense to me than Grant, and I would try and trade down for the four I named after Looney and Jones.

By far Jones makes the most sense if you want to draft a backup PG. Winning gene and time to learn makes sense.

[The Consiglieri]

Anybody catch Ford on the radio today? Was kind of interesting, a few tidbits:

*Leonard dropped four years ago due to medical red flags, anything out of sorts apparently scares the pants off teams.

*Last year Sacramento's F.O. had settled on Payton with their slot only for their new owner to overrule and demand they take Stauskas, said people underestimate how often there isn't a consensus in a F.O., and how the sons of owners are starting to argue for picks/decisions in some cases.

*Mentioned Caulie-Stien, and Looney being medical concerns for a few teams (i think ankle for the former case, and hip with Looney).

Definitely interesting listening.

[The Consiglieri]

Forgot to mention he added that the early word on the '16 class is that it stinks. Probably hard to trade a '16 #1 to move up then, but it certainly is an argument for trying (if the scouts are right).

[DCZards]

It's a safe boring pick though and he's also older than both Beal and Porter

But with the makeup of the roster we don't have a big man worth a damn at the 4 or 5 that's under the age of 25. That's a problem especially with Nene's decline/expiring deal, Humphries being an energy guy, and all the other options being marginal at PF.

Gortat is an iron man of sorts so far.

Sometimes safe and boring = smart. My top two choices for the Zards are Portis and Looney but I can live with Grant if they're gone and Grant is available at 19, especially if he's seen as the BPA. Yes, the Zards need youth and talent at the PF position, but they also need better backup guard play...and I see Grant being able to play both some PG and some SG.

So what if Grant is older than Beal and Porter? I think too much is made of age and/or guys being in college for 3-4 years. That mentality results in very good players being overlooked like Jimmy Butler or dropping into the second round like Draymond Green or not getting drafted at all, as was the the case with Wes Matthews.

[Ruzious]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jorgeccastillo/status/613801826354204672[/tweet]

That's actually a valid question. His standing reach was 9'1 - which is better than Greg Monroe and Anthony Davis (I stopped looking when I saw Davis at 9'), so he's long enough. And at 253 lbs, he's heavy and strong enough. He's not going to score a lot inside, but he can certainly out-quick most centers. I have a hard time picturing him at center, but maybe that's from ingrained thinking that a 6'8 guy can't play center.

[Ruzious]

Anybody catch Ford on the radio today? Was kind of interesting, a few tidbits:

*Leonard dropped four years ago due to medical red flags, anything out of sorts apparently scares the pants off teams.

*Last year Sacramento's F.O. had settled on Payton with their slot only for their new owner to overrule and demand they take Stauskas, said people underestimate how often there isn't a consensus in a F.O., and how the sons of owners are starting to argue for picks/decisions in some cases.

*Mentioned Caulie-Stien, and Looney being medical concerns for a few teams (i think ankle for the former case, and hip with Looney).

Definitely interesting listening.

Another Sacramento fubar - not that Payton is going to continue being much better than Stauskas, but when an owner overrules the front office on a pick, you have chaos. The Wiz need to wine and dine Sacto's owner.

[fishercob]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jorgeccastillo/status/613801826354204672[/tweet]

That's actually a valid question. His standing reach was 9'1 - which is better than Greg Monroe and Anthony Davis (I stopped looking when I saw Davis at 9'), so he's long enough. And at 253 lbs, he's heavy and strong enough. He's not going to score a lot inside, but he can certainly out-quick most centers. I have a hard time picturing him at center, but maybe that's from ingrained thinking that a 6'8 guy can't play center.

Similar prospects IMO.

[fishercob]

It's a safe boring pick though and he's also older than both Beal and Porter

But with the makeup of the roster we don't have a big man worth a damn at the 4 or 5 that's under the age of 25. That's a problem especially with Nene's decline/expiring deal, Humphries being an energy guy, and all the other options being marginal at PF.

Gortat is an iron man of sorts so far.

Sometimes safe and boring = smart.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sessions is worlds better than Temple. Sessions is a competent NBA backup point guard.

While I do agree, Temple was darned effective at the start of the season when Beal was out.

That was about a 6-8 game stretch, my friend.

Like quickie sex, it was good while it lasted.

Temple was a placeholder while the Wizards put up a good wins. They started out 9-4. Temple really had more like only 4 really good games while Beal was out.

I went back and looked at splits and game logs. Washington was 10-8 in the 18 games Temple started. His 10 wins featured strong offensive and defensive ratings and terrific plus minus. His 8 losses were extremely opposite, like night and day.Truly all or none stuff, with latter season being significantly worse than beginning.

Temple makes me wonder how good Vasquez or Barton could be in a similar role, if acquired as a FA.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Man, the "scout" take in SI on Tyus Jones sounds like kiss of death stuff:

He’s not very big, but he’s a winner. You don’t think he’s a great shooter, but when the game is on the line, the guy never misses.

[The Consiglieri]

This is great stuff: http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/22/2015-nba-draft-scouting-reports-jahlil-okafor-karl-towns-emmanuel-mudiay

Always interesting to read what scouts think. Stuff like this bugs me more than it probably should though.

He’s not an elite shooter yet, but Bradley Beal only shot 28% from the three-point line in college.

Beal shot 34% from 3pt range in college.

I understand a scout misremembering. Why wouldn't the writer just a) correct the percentage; or b) go back to his source and ask him if his opinion would change if he had the correct percentage?

Also worth noting Beal's shooting got hotter as he got more comfortable and used to the college game, just as he looked awful early as a rookie, and warmed up in the second half of '12-'13 dramatically. For whatever reason Beal seems to play much better after January (particularly in March-May), than in the fall and early winter. It's not hard to find that stuff out. Some scouts just sound like idiots.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Forgot to mention he added that the early word on the '16 class is that it stinks. Probably hard to trade a '16 #1 to move up then, but it certainly is an argument for trying (if the scouts are right).

Diamond Stone and Brian Ellerbe are studs. Grayson is a stud. A bunch of kids from the McDonald's AA game looked great to me. Trimble or Sulaimon or Robert Carter or even Jake Layman will be hyped to the max next year at this time.

A bunch of players who didn't declare, like Yogi Ferrell, the guys on Gonzaga at PG and PF; and a host of international players will make 2016 another solid draft.

[closg00]

Is there a consensus that Ernie takes the most NBA ready player at 19? I just can't see Ernie taking Looney if he is there.


#FireErnie ~ Because he believed Stephen Curry couldn't help us and Jan Vesely could.

[Ruzious]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jorgeccastillo/status/613801826354204672[/tweet]

That's actually a valid question. His standing reach was 9'1 - which is better than Greg Monroe and Anthony Davis (I stopped looking when I saw Davis at 9'), so he's long enough. And at 253 lbs, he's heavy and strong enough. He's not going to score a lot inside, but he can certainly out-quick most centers. I have a hard time picturing him at center, but maybe that's from ingrained thinking that a 6'8 guy can't play center.

Similar prospects IMO.

I forgot the rule of thumb - Don't drink coffee when reading a fishercob post.

[fishercob]

That's actually a valid question. His standing reach was 9'1 - which is better than Greg Monroe and Anthony Davis (I stopped looking when I saw Davis at 9'), so he's long enough. And at 253 lbs, he's heavy and strong enough. He's not going to score a lot inside, but he can certainly out-quick most centers. I have a hard time picturing him at center, but maybe that's from ingrained thinking that a 6'8 guy can't play center.

Similar prospects IMO.

I forgot the rule of thumb - Don't drink coffee when reading a fishercob post.

Also, don't drink coffee at 5 PM!

[Ruzious]

Man, the "scout" take in SI on Tyus Jones sounds like kiss of death stuff:

He’s not very big, but he’s a winner. You don’t think he’s a great shooter, but when the game is on the line, the guy never misses.

Or it's the one time that kind of talk is true, so it proves the rule - assuming there's an exception to every rule.

He's a player you can let have the ball at end o quarter/half/game situations, and he'll score at an even higher rate than John Wall.

[The Consiglieri]

Anybody catch Ford on the radio today? Was kind of interesting, a few tidbits:

*Leonard dropped four years ago due to medical red flags, anything out of sorts apparently scares the pants off teams.

*Last year Sacramento's F.O. had settled on Payton with their slot only for their new owner to overrule and demand they take Stauskas, said people underestimate how often there isn't a consensus in a F.O., and how the sons of owners are starting to argue for picks/decisions in some cases.

*Mentioned Caulie-Stien, and Looney being medical concerns for a few teams (i think ankle for the former case, and hip with Looney).

Definitely interesting listening.

Another Sacramento fubar - not that Payton is going to continue being much better than Stauskas, but when an owner overrules the front office on a pick, you have chaos. The Wiz need to wine and dine Sacto's owner.

In those kinds of cases I'm a firm believer in what the Giants Ernie Accorsi said/did with regards to Robert Irsay, the drunk/owner of the Colts back in '83. Accorsi had played the Elway issue with the Colts perfectly getting a whole pile of teams bidding against one another including the Raiders, Niners, Broncos, Patriots, Dallas and even potential interest from Seattle and San Diego (probably bunk, but who knows). Took Elway, demanding 3 #1's, knew he probably wasn't going to get that, but he still had the upper hand landing a potential deal in place with the Raiders which would have included the #6 overall in some sort of package until the league illegaly nixed the deal (remember back then Rozelle and Davis were at war), and then was totally sabotaged by his owner who basically kicked him out of the office after having a private talk with Pat Bowlen, and signed off on a deal for Hinton, Hermann, and an '84 #1, which Accorsi already knew was worthless because the '84 draft didn't have any QB's (only Boomer was considered a first round QB at the time).

What did Accorsi do after being overruled on a deal that could destroy his career, he made it clear he didn't sign off, finished out the year, and left. He wouldn't work for a drunken fool who would sabotage his work from the owners office. Smart man. Went on to have a great career in NY.

If I'm the Sac GM, or the top F.O. guy at that time, I quit, and try to get a position with a smart organization like Golden State, OKC, Houston etc. No way in hell do I work for a team where all the work my scouts and I have done for a year is sabotaged by some rich dullard who doesn't know squat about the game, but did see stauskas knock down some 3's in the NCAA tourney and is enamoured.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Man, the "scout" take in SI on Tyus Jones sounds like kiss of death stuff:

He’s not very big, but he’s a winner. You don’t think he’s a great shooter, but when the game is on the line, the guy never misses.

Contrast that to the ranking stat geeks at 538 came up with on Jones.

I saw what Duke did after kicking Sulaimon off the team. Won with Jones being a freshman baller and shot caller.

Won in HS and told Coach K they were going to win we he got there.

THAT SAID...I prefer former Texas Gatorade player of the year, Joe Young in round two over Jones. He also won multiple HS state championship games, like Tyus Jones. Young also has the Steph Curry/Andrew Wiggins/Klay Thompson NBA daddy good gene thing. I remember Michael Young of Houston Cougar Phi Slamma Jamma.

[The Consiglieri]

Man, the "scout" take in SI on Tyus Jones sounds like kiss of death stuff:

He’s not very big, but he’s a winner. You don’t think he’s a great shooter, but when the game is on the line, the guy never misses.

My thought as well. If I knew my scout was writing that up in his report, I'd fire his rear end immediately. That is intellectual laziness at its absolute worst. You know how many guys win national titles? Now how many of them make it at the next level? Negligible numbers at best. It's just idiotic.

If that's your argument, just say, the mental make up is outstanding, the guy plays much better under pressure, the second the vice is applied he's Jeter like (while other guys get tite, he keeps playing at his standard level), will do the work. If he can make the jump athletically, and as a technical player, his work rate/habits/mental make up will do the rest.

Just saying, "he's a winner, can't shoot, except in the clutch"? That is just horse manure analysis.

[DCZards]

Man, the "scout" take in SI on Tyus Jones sounds like kiss of death stuff:

He’s not very big, but he’s a winner. You don’t think he’s a great shooter, but when the game is on the line, the guy never misses.

Or it's the one time that kind of talk is true, so it proves the rule - assuming there's an exception to every rule.

He's a player you can let have the ball at end o quarter/half/game situations, and he'll score at an even higher rate than John Wall.

...and he'll give up points at the defensive end at a higher rate than pretty much every guard in this draft. Jones can shoot his butt off...but I don't trust little guards in today's NBA, especially when playing good D is so important.