The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak

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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#101 » by bringinhinkie » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:50 am

Black Feet wrote:No not at all, people rely too much on stats when trying to evaluate how good a player is. Lebron last year was a much better player as well as this year. To answer the Question Goat peak belongs to either Shaq or MJ no one else should be discussed.


bingo, this is the plague of realgm

disagree on your last point though to an extent.. goat peak is jordan, i dont think that can be even argued, but if you are going to mention shaq, you have to throw in magic and wilt.. wilt put up 50 and 25 one year.. and to the people who want to say "the competition sucked or w/e, it isnt like he completely fell off when he was past his prime and in the early 70s when the league was very competitive and stocked with good centers.. his last year in the league at age 36 he put up 13ppg/19apg/4.5apg lord know how many shots this guy was blocking as well, and he shot 73%--this against the likes of: willis reed, nate thurmond, kareem, wes unseld, dave cowens, spencer haywood.. point being he still put up huge numbers, way past his prime, in a very good center era.. so obviously during his prime he was off the charts, and just listen to guys like walt frazier talk about how dominant he was
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#102 » by Kobe Bean » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:46 am

And this is where the advanced metrics fad should stop. Statements like "looking at Player X's ORTG/PER/Whatever tells us that" are fundamentally flawed. It has gotten way too commonplace for guys to basically post a spreadsheet of numbers and draw conclusions off them, with little to no actual analysis on what happened on the basketball court.'

Long story short there is no case for 09 LeBron as the GOAT peak. None. 0. His defense has been steadily improving since 07 but people already revise history on his level of play on that end, lol. It's only been 4 years FCS
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#103 » by colts18 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:04 pm

can you guys please not turn this into a Kobe. if you want a kobe vs Lebron 2009 thread, start one, but please use this thread to argue the merits of LeBron 2009 not LeBron and Kobe.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#104 » by An Unbiased Fan » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:15 pm

colts18 wrote:can you guys please not turn this into a Kobe. if you want a kobe vs Lebron 2009 thread, start one, but please use this thread to argue the merits of LeBron 2009 not LeBron and Kobe.

Who the better player in 2009 was....is pretty important in a thread about whether 2009 Lebron is the GOAT peak.

Both 2012 & 2013 Lebron > 2009 Lebron
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#105 » by ThatsWhatIShved » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:18 pm

Only one stat needs to be used to prove 2009 is not GOAT.....


0ppg on 0% shooting against handchecking. Can't be the best, if you can't beat the best.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#106 » by colts18 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:19 am

ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Only one stat needs to be used to prove 2009 is not GOAT.....


0ppg on 0% shooting against handchecking. Can't be the best, if you can't beat the best.

When did Durant face hand checking?
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#107 » by Not Bias » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:25 am

colts18 wrote:
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Only one stat needs to be used to prove 2009 is not GOAT.....


0ppg on 0% shooting against handchecking. Can't be the best, if you can't beat the best.

When did Durant face hand checking?

I think he must've meant Kobe or something :lol:
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#108 » by SideshowBob » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:27 am

No he's using Durant's post all star numbers from this year I believe.
But in his home dwelling...the hi-top faded warrior is revered. *Smack!* The sound of his palm blocking the basketball... the sound of thousands rising, roaring... the sound of "get that sugar honey iced tea outta here!"
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#109 » by ThatsWhatIShved » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:06 am

colts18 wrote:
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Only one stat needs to be used to prove 2009 is not GOAT.....


0ppg on 0% shooting against handchecking. Can't be the best, if you can't beat the best.

When did Durant face hand checking?


International play and his one season at Texas.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#110 » by colts18 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:47 pm

An Unbiased Fan wrote:
colts18 wrote:can you guys please not turn this into a Kobe. if you want a kobe vs Lebron 2009 thread, start one, but please use this thread to argue the merits of LeBron 2009 not LeBron and Kobe.

Who the better player in 2009 was....is pretty important in a thread about whether 2009 Lebron is the GOAT peak.

Both 2012 & 2013 Lebron > 2009 Lebron

There are a million other Kobe threads, please don't make this one of those. You have plenty of threads where you can argue your Kobe agenda.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#111 » by ShotCreator » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:57 pm

I remember watching this series. There's no doubt in my mind 2009 LeBron was the best player ever.

Jordan simply never played on that level in both RS and PS.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#112 » by Shanghai Kid » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:10 pm

RW2014 wrote:I remember watching this series. There's no doubt in my mind 2009 LeBron was the best player ever.

Jordan simply never played on that level in both RS and PS.


Wow so forget about it being close, Jordan was never even on the same level? Are you talking about Michael Jordan or Deandre Jordan?

90-91 MJ is as good as any version of Lebron and most would say better.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#113 » by ShotCreator » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:28 pm

Wow so forget about it being close

Yes.
Jordan was never even on the same level?

I have never seen evidence besides mainstream conjecture. So I would say, no.

Are you talking about Michael Jordan or Deandre Jordan?

Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

90-91 MJ is as good as any version of Lebron
Complete and utter conjecture that hasn't been proven based in any facts.
and most would say better.


I wouldn't doubt that at all. That doesn't make it true in any sense.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#114 » by BirdsEye » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:00 pm

GOAT peaks win NBA titles.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#115 » by BirdsEye » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:10 pm

Kobe was better in 2009, even if some stats that people who use them can't even calculate say otherwise. The Cavs choked against the Magic and that's the bottom line.

Kobe was mentally head and shoulders above Lebron and understood what it took to win. The stats were meaningless.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#116 » by Jetzger » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:42 pm

BirdsEye wrote:GOAT peaks win NBA titles.


So 2010 Kobe is better than 2006 Kobe in your opinion?
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#117 » by Quotatious » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:44 pm

BirdsEye wrote:Kobe was better in 2009, even if some stats that people who use them can't even calculate say otherwise. The Cavs choked against the Magic and that's the bottom line.

Cavs choked, LeBron certainly did not. Dude averaged 38/8/8, for Christ's sake. How anyone can imply that LeBron was anything but phenomenal in that series is beyond me.

BirdsEye wrote:Kobe was mentally head and shoulders above Lebron and understood what it took to win. The stats were meaningless.

Quintessential blanket statement.

How about the fact that LeBron led his team to more wins than Kobe in the regular season, while also putting up better stats?

BirdsEye wrote:GOAT peaks win NBA titles.

No, GOAT teams win NBA titles. Otherwise, 2006 or 2007 Kobe was crap, and put up empty stats because his team didn't win anything.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#118 » by BasketballFan7 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Peak Bron was '13, so '09 couldn't be GOAT.

As has been stated, people rely on stats too much. Versatility matters, and 13 >>> 09. Same with the mental aspect. The context in CLE was ideal for that version of Bron to put up eye popping numbers, and because of that people somehow think that was his peak.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#119 » by Quotatious » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:48 pm

Jetzger wrote:
BirdsEye wrote:GOAT peaks win NBA titles.


So 2010 Kobe is better than 2006 Kobe in your opinion?

He probably thinks that 2000 Kobe was better than 2006, let alone 2010.
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Re: The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak 

Post#120 » by theonlyclutch » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:48 pm

BirdsEye wrote:Kobe was mentally head and shoulders above Lebron and understood what it took to win. The stats were meaningless.


If "what it took to win" meant having teammates that have a consistent track record of outperforming Kobe himself in pressure situations, then sure...
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