Tobias Harris To Pursue Near Max Deal With Pistons, Celtics Among Leading Suitors

[GreekAlex]

From the minimal times I've got to see T. Harris, I like what I see but it still leaves a few questions. Maybe someone that's seen/followed him more could help me understand his situation better.

1. Is his injury history something to worry about or just bad luck? He's never played 70 games in any season.

2. Are his numbers the product of his use rate on a bad team or can his skills easily translate to a winning team?

3. Given his age and skills, shouldn't we be worried if Orlando doesn't match? Especially with the cap going up, how can Orlando afford to lose an asset without compensation during their rebuild?

Disclaimer: I'm a pretty big Harris fan.

1. I don't know how relevant his injury history is. He was benched in Mil, and played as soon as he got to Orlando. Played the 13-14 season with a nagging high ankle sprain (which I believe hindered his 3 pt%) and last year I don't think he did anything to jeopardize himself being on a losing team in a contract year. I would say it is more about bad luck and timing.

2. I think his numbers are his numbers. I think he's an example of a player who doesn't really benefit from being on a bad team. His PER36 numbers have been surprisingly consistent (back to college) as well as most of his FG percentages. He's not a player who was ever just given the ball and a green light. Playing with ball dominant SG's who are poor shooters does not help him much at all either

3. Orlando fans seem pretty ready to let him walk. He's not valued as much as some of they younger talent. I think they prefer the allure of what players could turn into and aren't looking to pay him near max.

I appreciate your insight... Your assessments seem reasonable and I think with the direction the style of NBA is going a player like him who is young and can play the 3 or the 4 at a high level with a well rounded skill set is valuable.

For defensive purposes does he match up better against 3's or 4's?

[engelbert321]

Get him, Stan!

[Piston Pete]

Vince Ellis saying Pistons are prioritizing D.Green and Carroll, don't want to tie money up for 3 days for Harris.

D Green, as in Draymond?

[zeebneeb]

From the minimal times I've got to see T. Harris, I like what I see but it still leaves a few questions. Maybe someone that's seen/followed him more could help me understand his situation better.

1. Is his injury history something to worry about or just bad luck? He's never played 70 games in any season.

2. Are his numbers the product of his use rate on a bad team or can his skills easily translate to a winning team?

3. Given his age and skills, shouldn't we be worried if Orlando doesn't match? Especially with the cap going up, how can Orlando afford to lose an asset without compensation during their rebuild?

Disclaimer: I'm a pretty big Harris fan.

1. I don't know how relevant his injury history is. He was benched in Mil, and played as soon as he got to Orlando. Played the 13-14 season with a nagging high ankle sprain (which I believe hindered his 3 pt%) and last year I don't think he did anything to jeopardize himself being on a losing team in a contract year. I would say it is more about bad luck and timing.

2. I think his numbers are his numbers. I think he's an example of a player who doesn't really benefit from being on a bad team. His PER36 numbers have been surprisingly consistent (back to college) as well as most of his FG percentages. He's not a player who was ever just given the ball and a green light. Playing with ball dominant SG's who are poor shooters does not help him much at all either

3. Orlando fans seem pretty ready to let him walk. He's not valued as much as some of they younger talent. I think they prefer the allure of what players could turn into and aren't looking to pay him near max.

I appreciate your insight... Your assessments seem reasonable and I think with the direction the style of NBA is going a player like him who is young and can play the 3 or the 4 at a high level with a well rounded skill set is valuable.

For defensive purposes does he match up better against 3's or 4's?

Now see, that's the beauty of it. Depending on matchups, he can slide to the three, and let Johnson guard say draymond green. It's a mix match type of senerio.

Erson better get used to coming off the bench, because if we land Harris, he's going to be there by January. The match up potential is just to intoxicating.

[mojosodope]

I don't want harris for what we'll have to pay him, even though he could be a good player. he has chronic ankle problems and has dealt with injuries literally every year of his career.

2012: 42 games (64% of the season)
2013: 55 games (67% of the season)
2014: 61 games (74% of the season)
2015: 68 games (83% of the season)

to sink considerable money into a player that is so injury-prone is pretty risky, imo.

only partially correct:

2012: 42 games Lockout season & collected considerable number of DNP's as a rookie
2013: 55 games Was not playing until being traded to Orl
2014: 61 games (74% of the season) - nagging high Ankle sprain season
2015: 68 games (83% of the season)

[Kilo]

Vince Ellis saying Pistons are prioritizing D.Green and Carroll, don't want to tie money up for 3 days for Harris.

D Green, as in Draymond?

The San Antonio D Green.

[Scout Taron]

I don't trust his shot enough to give him a max deal, especially since his defense leaves a lot to be desired. Career 32% from 3 people

He shot 54% from the right corner (26-48) and 40% from the left corner (20-49) last season.

Also this:


He really, really improved his shot and was often the only capable 3 pt shooter on the floor for the Magic.

That chart might be the definition of a misleading scale, lol.

[mojosodope]

From the minimal times I've got to see T. Harris, I like what I see but it still leaves a few questions. Maybe someone that's seen/followed him more could help me understand his situation better.

1. Is his injury history something to worry about or just bad luck? He's never played 70 games in any season.

2. Are his numbers the product of his use rate on a bad team or can his skills easily translate to a winning team?

3. Given his age and skills, shouldn't we be worried if Orlando doesn't match? Especially with the cap going up, how can Orlando afford to lose an asset without compensation during their rebuild?

Disclaimer: I'm a pretty big Harris fan.

1. I don't know how relevant his injury history is. He was benched in Mil, and played as soon as he got to Orlando. Played the 13-14 season with a nagging high ankle sprain (which I believe hindered his 3 pt%) and last year I don't think he did anything to jeopardize himself being on a losing team in a contract year. I would say it is more about bad luck and timing.

2. I think his numbers are his numbers. I think he's an example of a player who doesn't really benefit from being on a bad team. His PER36 numbers have been surprisingly consistent (back to college) as well as most of his FG percentages. He's not a player who was ever just given the ball and a green light. Playing with ball dominant SG's who are poor shooters does not help him much at all either

3. Orlando fans seem pretty ready to let him walk. He's not valued as much as some of they younger talent. I think they prefer the allure of what players could turn into and aren't looking to pay him near max.

I appreciate your insight... Your assessments seem reasonable and I think with the direction the style of NBA is going a player like him who is young and can play the 3 or the 4 at a high level with a well rounded skill set is valuable.

For defensive purposes does he match up better against 3's or 4's?

I think it depends, The 3 spot is a difficult to defend night in and out, particularly when you get a superstar who can knock down the 3. I think he's a player who you mix it up with. He can guard smaller 4's and bigger 3s and while he may not be a lockdown defender, he's certainly capable.

[sc8581]

He shot 54% from the right corner (26-48) and 40% from the left corner (20-49) last season.

Also this:


He really, really improved his shot and was often the only capable 3 pt shooter on the floor for the Magic.

One year does not make a shooter, I just don't trust him really.

Would you trust Draymond Green as a shooter?

Not at all, but I trust Green to improve our defense, make plays for others, motivate etc.. What else does Harris do?

[mojosodope]

One year does not make a shooter, I just don't trust him really.

Would you trust Draymond Green as a shooter?

Not at all, but I trust Green to improve our defense, make plays for others, motivate etc.. What else does Harris do?

No i was genuinely curious how you viewed Green's 3pt shot, read something recently that showed how GS's floor spacing afforded him a ridiculous number of open jumpshots.

I think Harris rebounds, competes rebounds and spaces the floor. Whatever else he brings, I think we have to wait until he plays for a real coach on a team trying to win something other than the lottery

[Laimbeer]

Would folks here be willing to offer a top 20 protected future first in a S&T to guarantee we got him if he agreed to sign here (ie rather than signing him to a offersheet and see Orlando match)?

$14M would leave us with $6M to spend to find a couple back-up centers. Makes me think getting one in the draft ie Dakari Jones, would have made more sense right now.

Nope. Pay the man and make Orlando match. Sign and trades normally yield little, unless you're dealing with Dumars.

[sc8581]

Would you trust Draymond Green as a shooter?

Not at all, but I trust Green to improve our defense, make plays for others, motivate etc.. What else does Harris do?

No i was genuinely curious how you viewed Green's 3pt shot, read something recently that showed how GS's floor spacing afforded him a ridiculous number of open jumpshots.

I think Harris rebounds, competes rebounds and spaces the floor. Whatever else he brings, I think we have to wait until he plays for a real coach on a team trying to win something other than the lottery

I just see Harris as basically like a 6th man, I want basketball players not streaky scorers.

[mojosodope]

Not at all, but I trust Green to improve our defense, make plays for others, motivate etc.. What else does Harris do?

No i was genuinely curious how you viewed Green's 3pt shot, read something recently that showed how GS's floor spacing afforded him a ridiculous number of open jumpshots.

I think Harris rebounds, competes rebounds and spaces the floor. Whatever else he brings, I think we have to wait until he plays for a real coach on a team trying to win something other than the lottery

I just see Harris as basically like a 6th man, I want basketball players not streaky scorers.

Agree to disagree, if anything he is a streaky shooter because of the Magic's terrible or lack of offense

[Snakebites]

If the Mavericks really are interested in Danny Green we'll have a hard time convincing him to come here, even though he'd be the perfect fit.

[GreekAlex]

If the Mavericks really are interested in Danny Green we'll have a hard time convincing him to come here, even though he'd be the perfect fit.

What role do you see him as the perfect fit for?

I also like D. Green and his game but I view him as a 2 and I can only envision spot minutes at the 3.

[vic]

PAY THE MAN!
Harris is 22 years old and has already proven himself in the NBA to be a scorer, a shooter and a rebounder. He is strong enough to defend fours, and quick enough to defend stretch fours. What more could you ask for?
- you already got your pg that gets into the paint
- you got your superstar big
- you got your do it all wing in SJ
- you got your energy 3&D sg
- you got plenty of backups, a few shooters
- now you need your hungry versatile scorer, and the fact that he rebounds and defends his position ok is really icing on the cake.

It's time to complete the young core of the team and just develop them and watch them compete for the next six or seven years. Let them sort out their pecking order as they compete in the playoffs.

We don't need anybody else over the age of 28 unless it's a backup center. I say forget the rest and max out Harris, get him at least 13.5 M or whatever it takes.

Jackson/Jennings/Dinwiddie
KCP/Meeks/Hilliard
Harris/Johnson/Cartier
Ilyasova/Tolliver/Miller
Drummond/Joel Anthony/undrafted player

Let's get er done...

[sc8581]

If the Mavericks really are interested in Danny Green we'll have a hard time convincing him to come here, even though he'd be the perfect fit.

What role do you see him as the perfect fit for?

I also like D. Green and his game but I view him as a 2 and I can only envision spot minutes at the 3.

Looks like he played close to half of his minutes at the 3 last season and had better overall production there. I wouldn't say he's a perfect fit because of his lack of ball handling but his defense and 42% career 3-point shooting would be very nice additions.

[jakebernat]

i think tobias is a tailor-made SVG forward.

versatility on both ends? check. he has the inside-out game from either spot that SVG loves. he's an intelligent player who knows when to launch from deep or slash/cut to the basket.
low turnover rate? check. he's never averaged more than 2 TOPG in his career. he's smart with the basketball and values possessions.
defensive versatility? semi-check. as a lone defender, tobias isn't exactly anything special defensively, but he has the smarts, length, and strength to be a major factor in a good team defense. being able to switch defenders is a cornerstone of a good defense. with these aforementioned traits, tobias has the versatility to guard both perimeter players as well as the more physical post players.

lastly, there's his age. dude is only (about to be) 23. there's still PLENTY of room for growth and maturity as a player, especially in a system/environment that allows him to play to his full potential. he'd have the opportunity to grow with our young core of players, something that doesn't happen often in free agency.

now the (15) million dollar question, is he worth the max? probably not, but who really is? i'd be all for bringing him on board, even if his price tag would make me cringe. we need someone to push us over the hump, and i really think tobias is the best guy out there for us.

[ADflight1]

Pass. Not worth the price tag.

[MrBigShot]

Big fan of Harris. The max will be a significantly smaller portion of the cap in a year, love this if true. Absolutely do NOT want to go exclusively after meeks level guys.

Gotta take some risks to be a contender when you're not in a big market.