2015-2016 Lineups

tooler · Post #1 » by **tooler** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:07 pm

People tend to dump their lineup ideas in random threads and then discuss the same things over and over. I hope we can use this thread to debate and analyze as the summer and season go on.

tooler · Post #2 » by **tooler** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:07 pm

Here's my initial proposal. Let's assume we retain everyone and don't add anyone in free agency:

Starters
Payton
Oladipo
Harris
Gordon
Vucevic

Advantages: BALANCE! Small ball should goose the offense a bit.
Risks: Not sure our combo forwards can bang with starting 4s all season. Aaron Gordon needs some sort of offensive game. Vucevic still needs to learn how to defend.

Backups
Oladipo
Fournier
Hezonja
Frye
Dedmon

Advantages. BALANCE! Pairs Frye with a rim protector. Tons of shooting around Oladipo. Our poor defenders play against backups.
Risks: No true point guard, lots of minutes for Oladipo.

The idea would be that no one plays more than about 30 minutes per game (except Oladipo if we don't acquire a good FA point guard backup). Everyone plays hard and fast as hell on defense and then takes a rest. Let Elfrid establish Vuc at the start of the half, then sit Elfrid early to bring in the wing shooters as secondary ball-handlers.

Note this starting lineup was -4 net points over 86 minutes last season, but that's actually one of the better ones. Skiles's defensive coaching might help.

I don't think it's realistic to bring Oladipo, Tobias, or Vucevic off the bench.

drsd · Post #3 » by **drsd** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:50 am

With the news media strongly suggesting Harris will not be matched, and as that is not obviously true for O'Quinn, I see the opening night depth chart, excluding injuries, as:

Payton/vet-FA/Siva-or-Curry
Oladipo/Fournier
Gordon/Hezonja/Harkless/Marble
Frye/Nicholson
Vučević/O'Quinn/Dedmon

If Hezonja develops quickly to the NBA game as a SF and Gordon's progression to PF is as expected, then the roster could reshuffle around the All star break to:

Payton/vet-FA/Siva-or-Curry
Oladipo/Fournier
Hezonja/Harkless/Marble
Gordon/Frye/Nicholson
Vučević/O'Quinn/Dedmon

At some point Skiles must test if the small-ball lineup of Payton/Oladipo/Hezonja/Gordon/Vučević is the future, or if GM Hennigan needs to further reshuffle an unbalanced roster.

..

magicship · Post #4 » by **magicship** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:58 am

drsd wrote:With the news media strongly suggesting Harris will not be matched, and as that is not obviously true for O'Quinn, I see the opening night depth chart, excluding injuries, as:

Payton/vet-FA/Siva-or-Curry
Oladipo/Fournier
Gordon/Hezonja/Harkless/Marble
Frye/Nicholson
Vučević/O'Quinn/Dedmon

If Hezonja develops quickly to the NBA game as a SF and Gordon's progression to PF is as expected, then the roster could reshuffle around the All star break to:

Payton/vet-FA/Siva-or-Curry
Oladipo/Fournier
Hezonja/Harkless/Marble
Gordon/Frye/Nicholson
Vučević/O'Quinn/Dedmon

At some point Skiles must test if the small-ball lineup of Payton/Oladipo/Hezonja/Gordon/Vučević is the future, or if GM Hennigan needs to further reshuffle an unbalanced roster.

..

I think Tobias gets matched. We definitely can afford it and Hennigan has stated time and time again that he will match any offer. You don't let the potential he has at 22 leave for nothing.

Payton/Harvey/Oladipo
Oladipo/Fournier/Gordon
Harris/Hezonja/Harkless
Gordon/Frye/Nicholson
Vucevic/Dedmon/O'Quinn

I think this season is going to ride on the improvements from Payton and Gordon. Especially for Gordon, he needs to show that he can be a starter in this league. He needs to give us 25-30 productive minutes in order for us to really improve.

Post #5 » by **eyriq** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:15 pm

Pushpic · Post #6 » by **Pushpic** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:38 pm

I honestly think Hezonja starts at the 3 straight out of the gate. He is instantly the best scorer on our team. I think he has a high chance to be ROY because his talents are exactly what we are lacking on this team, his top scoring abilities (3 pointers, shashing/fast break, incredible catch and shoot efficiency) are the exact things that don't take a learning curve, especially considering he was doing it already at a pro-level. He was regarded as one of the most pro ready players in the draft.

That being said, I think Mario, coupled with a healthy, improved and stronger AG, make resigning Tobias to a near, or at, max-level contracts is a very dumb decision. Something like 4 years 60 mil or 5 years 75 mil is not good when you just drafted two players at No. 4 and 5 respectively that do everything he does on the court, as a combo playing together, much much better than him playing with either of the two. Yeah it sucks to let talent walk for nothing but it sucks worse to hinder the development of two top 5 very promising young players. Tobias will take at least 30-34 minutes on the court and his talents, while amazing for some teams, simply don't fit as perfectly with this team as having Elf, Oladipo, Mario, AG and Vuc on the court together.

I say sign Ed Davis to a contract similar to Frye's and a decent backup scoring PG...or settle for Jameer.

Make a huge run at an elite level FA next year once we see how to exactly play this group together and what the final piece(s) to make this team a championship contender, not just a playoff contender.

Starters (30+ min per game):
PG: Elfrid
SG: Oladipo
SF: Hezonja
PF: Gordon
C: Vuc

Backups (less than 18 minutes per game):
PG: FA signing/Oladipo, Harvey (short amount for instant offense, with a second ball handler on the court)
SG: Fournier, Hezonja, Marble
SF: Fournier, Gordon, Harkless
PF: Ed Davis, Frye
C: Dedmond

Let this squad ball out together, get a 7/8 seed in the weak east and sign the final big piece next year.

MagicStarwipe · Post #7 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:00 pm

I don't like the idea of our best players only getting around 30 mpg. Maybe if we were an all-star team. I'm all for guys getting rest here and there, but you need your best players on the court and the longer they are on the court the better your chances of winning are. Our best players should be getting minutes in the mid-30's no doubt.

MagicStarwipe · Post #8 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:06 pm

eyriq wrote:Under the assumption that the remaining moves are to our deep bench and that our rotation is set

36 Payton
36 Oladipo
30 Harris
30 Gordon
30 Vucevic
24 Fournier
24 Dedmon
18 Hezonja
12 Frye

Payton|Oladipo|Harris|Gordon|Vucevic

Oladipo|Fournier|Harris|Dedmon|Vucevic

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Gordon|Dedmon

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

Oladipo|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

Not bad, but Dedmon's minutes look a little high and Hezonja's a little low. And Gordon will likely see as many SF minutes as PF minutes. Can't have your best perimeter defender tussling with PF's all season.

tooler · Post #9 » by **tooler** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:26 pm

Pushpic wrote:I honestly think Hezonja starts at the 3 straight out of the gate. He is instantly the best scorer on our team. I think he has a high chance to be ROY because his talents are exactly what we are lacking on this team, his top scoring abilities (3 pointers, shashing/fast break, incredible catch and shoot efficiency) are the exact things that don't take a learning curve, especially considering he was doing it already at a pro-level. He was regarded as one of the most pro ready players in the draft.

He needs to learn how to play defense. I'd rather let him play against backups at first. Late in the year he can close out games.

MagicStarwipe wrote:I don't like the idea of our best players only getting around 30 mpg. Maybe if we were an all-star team. I'm all for guys getting rest here and there, but you need your best players on the court and the longer they are on the court the better your chances of winning are. Our best players should be getting minutes in the mid-30's no doubt.

But Fournier, Dedmon, and maybe Hezonja are some of our best players. I think Dedmon works best as a straight backup so 16-18 MPG is fine for him. But the reality is that if we don't sign a capable backup point guard, then Elfrid and Oladipo will be stuck with high minutes anyway.

Based on the versatile players on the team, I suspect we are going to a style like the Milwaukee Bucks where no one plays a ton of minutes, but everyone plays great scrambling defense. We may not get the same results because we don't have any good veterans like they did, but I'm willing to bet that's the style this team is headed for. Who knows though.

MagicStarwipe · Post #10 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:30 pm

tooler wrote:
Pushpic wrote:I honestly think Hezonja starts at the 3 straight out of the gate. He is instantly the best scorer on our team. I think he has a high chance to be ROY because his talents are exactly what we are lacking on this team, his top scoring abilities (3 pointers, shashing/fast break, incredible catch and shoot efficiency) are the exact things that don't take a learning curve, especially considering he was doing it already at a pro-level. He was regarded as one of the most pro ready players in the draft.

He needs to learn how to play defense. I'd rather let him play against backups at first. Late in the year he can close out games.

MagicStarwipe wrote:I don't like the idea of our best players only getting around 30 mpg. Maybe if we were an all-star team. I'm all for guys getting rest here and there, but you need your best players on the court and the longer they are on the court the better your chances of winning are. Our best players should be getting minutes in the mid-30's no doubt.

But Fournier, Dedmon, and maybe Hezonja are some of our best players. I think Dedmon works best as a straight backup so 16-18 MPG is fine for him. But the reality is that if we don't sign a capable backup point guard, then Elfrid and Oladipo will be stuck with high minutes anyway.

Based on the versatile players on the team, I suspect we are going to a style like the Milwaukee Bucks where no one plays a ton of minutes, but everyone plays great scrambling defense. We may not get the same results because we don't have any good veterans like they did, but I'm willing to bet that's the style this team is headed for. Who knows though.

Well, by best players I'm talking more about say the top 3 or 4 players on the team.

OrlandoMagic · Post #11 » by **OrlandoMagic** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:38 pm

Lineup Elfrid, Victor, Mario, Harris, Gordon just for kicks

OrlandO · Post #12 » by **OrlandO** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:42 pm

drsd wrote:With the news media strongly suggesting Harris will not be matched...

I think that's just a rumor coming directly from harris' camp in order to get teams to bite and secure the biggest deal possible. More teams will go after him if they think he can be had. However, we've heard straight from henningan multiple times that we intend to bring him back at any cost. Despite that, the stupid infographic harris' camp recently commissioned to send to teams conveniently suggests we will not match.

Couple months ago on conference call to season ticket holders:

Magic GM Rob Hennigan says the club "intends" to bring back F Tobias Harris – a restricted free agent – "no matter what" the cost this summer.

A month and a half later from Harris camp:

"Rumor has it that the Magic will match "up" to 13m per year, but not a max."

Cheap trick, which the media has no problem exploiting since all they care about is hits.

drsd · Post #13 » by **drsd** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:10 pm

eyriq wrote:Payton|Oladipo|Harris|Gordon|Vucevic

Oladipo|Fournier|Harris|Dedmon|Vucevic

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Gordon|Dedmon

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

Oladipo|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

I can also see minutes for Oladipo/Hezonja/Harris/Gordon/Vučević.

TDJacksonville · Post #14 » by **TDJacksonville** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:18 pm

OrlandoMagic wrote:Lineup Elfrid, Victor, Mario, Harris, Gordon just for kicks

wouldn't hurt to try it out

GANGSTERDOG · Post #15 » by **GANGSTERDOG** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:06 pm

In 3 years i see in the playoffs Eastern Conference Finals

Payton/Oladipo
Mario/ Oladipo/ Fournier
Gordon/ Harris/ Fournier
Free Agent Defensive PF/ Harris/ Gordon
Vucevic/ Dedmond

KillMonger · Post #16 » by **KillMonger** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:24 pm

Roster as is currently
PG: Payton/Oladipo/Harvey
SG: Oladipo/Fournier/Hezonja
SF: Gordon/Tobias/Hezonja
PF: Tobias/Gordon
C: Vuc/Dedmon

This is hard man, because you got Nicholson and Harkless looking like the odd men out, there are a lot of variables man one or two changes and the whole lineup can look different.

zerp · Post #17 » by **zerp** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:27 pm

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Monroe
Vucevic

I think Magic don't match Harris for the luxury taxe

Last Guardian · Post #18 » by **Last Guardian** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:53 pm

Payton/Oladipo/Harvey
Oladipo/Fournier/Hezonja
Hezonja/Gordon/Harkless
Gordon/Dedmon/Nicholson
Vucevic/Frye/Dedmon

KillMonger · Post #19 » by **KillMonger** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:55 pm

zerp wrote:Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Monroe
Vucevic

I think Magic don't match Harris for the luxury taxe

Don't you think Monroe and Vuc is a bit.......redundant?

tiderulz · Post #20 » by **tiderulz** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:44 pm

eyriq wrote:Under the assumption that the remaining moves are to our deep bench and that our rotation is set

36 Payton
36 Oladipo
30 Harris
30 Gordon
30 Vucevic
24 Fournier
24 Dedmon
18 Hezonja
12 Frye

Payton|Oladipo|Harris|Gordon|Vucevic

Oladipo|Fournier|Harris|Dedmon|Vucevic

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Gordon|Dedmon

Payton|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

Oladipo|Fournier|Hezonja|Frye|Dedmon

i think with Skiles hard push on defense, i dont see our players going over the 30 min mark. that way they all stay fresh and can hound opposing players