2015 Draft Thread - Part 1

[The Consiglieri]

I wanted Portis. Oubre wasn't even on my radar since he was expected to be gone before the 19th pick, and I thought the Zards would/should be looking for a PF with range or a backup guard.

But I think Oubre will likely turn out to be a good--maybe even great--pick. He was widely considered the BPA at 15. He has a good looking jumper, is an excellent athlete and he's a tremendous defender. Yeah, he's young and raw and may not contribute much this year, but that's true of about half of the players in the top half of the draft.

Several posters here wanted EG to be bold and daring rather than play it safe. Now that he's done that some of those same people are unhappy. Go figure.

Was ranked #12th by the 538 crew, 13th by Chad Ford, lottery consensus for the most part last fall.

He represents a lot of value, but so much value that he warranted being selected over Portis? I can't see that in terms of our needs/roster and his ceiling. That being said, I'm not that mad because we're betting on someone who could become "great" and I can never argue with that sort of thinking.

It is a bit odd, however, to select him when you're supposedly advertising yourself to '16 free agents, but then you use a top 15 pick on a guy who seemingly everyone is saying won't play meaningful minutes until at least 2017 barring horrible injuries.

[BruceO]

Thanks for your work TSW. I just looked at their college stats and they both put up better ppgs than Oubre. Wiggins and Oubres numbers for rebounds, free throw percentage, 3pt percentage, blocks are about the same. Kelly got 21mins while Wiggins got 32.

Paul George standing reach is 8 10. He was a better rebounder and assist man than Oubre who's standing reach is 8 6". Got me to thinking about Oubres dimensions and his best position. 7 ft 2 inch wing span plus 8 ft 6 standing reach.

wingspan is comparable to Paul George and Kawhis wingspan. Both elite defenders at the small forward. They both however have 8 ft 10 standing reaches. Four inches on Oubre.

The wings Jimmy Butler, Demar derozen and Klay Thompson who I think are better 2 guards have Oubres standing reach. They all however have 6 ft 9 wingspan. So Oubre is their height and standing reach but he has a longer wingspan and generally better athleticism other than possible derozen. Wiggins has unlisted stats but came in same weight and 6 8 height with shoes. He's slotted at Sf out of need but could have at high standing reach.

Leads me to believe that from a physical perspective our goal should be slotting Oubre at the two guard position.

Those guys to me have success. Look at Kobe, Klay, Rip, Jordan. I think big two guards are championship guards.

The good think is he's training with drew hanlan. The guy who is working with Wiggins and Beal. They're working on his three and D role first before they expand his game. He's a good wing coach so I think with our interchangeable wings Oubre should see time as our backup sg. A place we have a hole and I think he'll do really good. His size allows him to backup both wings but I think he'll be really really good with his height and weight if we groom him to be a shooting guard eventually

[BruceO]

.
Welcome your opinons: Is it wrong of me to revel in schadenfreude associated wit the current state of the Knicks?

Carmelo Anthony reportedly unhappy with Knicks’ draft moves

Carmelo Anthony just turned 31. He’s coming off a lost season that ended with knee surgery. The 10-time all-star would probably rather see his New York Knicks make moves that pay off immediately, rather than draft Latvians who might not start producing at an NBA level for three years or more.

Read the rest by clicking here.

carmelo is just upset they are thinking past him like they are supposed to be. Kristsaps will be really good and he needs to get over it. I'd rather have Kristsaps than melo especially at his price

[DCZards]

It is a bit odd, however, to select him when you're supposedly advertising yourself to '16 free agents, but then you use a top 15 pick on a guy who seemingly everyone is saying won't play meaningful minutes until at least 2017 barring horrible injuries.

Would anyone that the Zards picked at 19 have played meaningful minutes before 2017? Would any player picked in that spot have made much of an impression on 2016 free agents? Maybe so...but I have my doubts.

The growth and play of Beal, Wall, Otto and, to some extend, Gortat, will be the biggest factors in attracting 2016 free agents.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Thanks for your work TSW. I just looked at their college stats and they both put up better ppgs than Oubre. Wiggins and Oubres numbers for rebounds, free throw percentage, 3pt percentage, blocks are about the same. Kelly got 21mins while Wiggins got 32.

Paul George standing reach is 8 10. He was a better rebounder and assist man than Oubre who's standing reach is 8 6". Got me to thinking about Oubres dimensions and his best position. 7 ft 2 inch wing span plus 8 ft 6 standing reach.

wingspan is comparable to Paul George and Kawhis wingspan. Both elite defenders at the small forward. They both however have 8 ft 10 standing reaches. Four inches on Oubre.

The wings Jimmy Butler, Demar derozen and Klay Thompson who I think are better 2 guards have Oubres standing reach. They all however have 6 ft 9 wingspan. So Oubre is their height and standing reach but he has a longer wingspan and generally better athleticism other than possible derozen. Wiggins has unlisted stats but came in same weight and 6 8 height with shoes. He's slotted at Sf out of need but could have at high standing reach.

Leads me to believe that from a physical perspective our goal should be slotting Oubre at the two guard position.

Those guys to me have success. Look at Kobe, Klay, Rip, Jordan. I think big two guards are championship guards.

The good think is he's training with drew hanlan. The guy who is working with Wiggins and Beal. They're working on his three and D role first before they expand his game. He's a good wing coach so I think with our interchangeable wings Oubre should see time as our backup sg. A place we have a hole and I think he'll do really good. His size allows him to backup both wings but I think he'll be really really good with his height and weight if we groom him to be a shooting guard eventually

We've been talking about the standing reach thing. He measured 8-8 as a high school senior. It's not possible that his reach shrank an inch and a half at Kansas. He might have dogged it a little to boost his vertical (not that it needed help). Or, there was an error recording the number. My guess is that his standing reach is 8-8 at minimum.

As for the comparisons you're making -- my guess is that you're using per game numbers. On a per minute basis, Oubre outrebounded George. Kawhi was the best rebounder of the long-armed trio you mentioned.

[Jaekast]

Bobby "right fit" Portis all day, everyday. I think black stiffs aren't an attractive selling point either. The fact that they went for potential down the road as opposed to help right away speaks volumes about what they thought about mr. Right Fit. The wiz had two glaring areas to address in the off season, get a wing player (cya Pierce) and get a #trending s4. (cya Pierce) This ain't over man, just have a lil faith in the process Porter finally slides into the starter role at the 3 and Ofc Beal @ the 2. Backing both spots up will be an uber athletic wing player in Oubre, which currently both of those spots lack. I think the addition of Oubre will add a dimension that we severely lacked the past couple years.....dont you want Wall's prime years to be shared with other athletes like him playing above the rim? Srsly how many lobs was Bobby "right fit" gonna make? Lets stop slowing down the pace and get more athletes on the team to play at John Wall speed.

[BruceO]

Why are people so in love with portis? I mean I love him too but not as this stretch forward you are dying for. When I scouted him and watched how he shot three pointers I was like wtf. I felt like I was lied to by people pushing this stretch four moniker on him. That shot is really ugly. The release point is behind his head. I think Chicago picked him cause pickings were slim at that point once Justin Anderson was gone at pick before theirs. We'll see how he does but dude is not going to be hitting three pointers for at few years and by then I wouldn't encourage him the way I'd do for porzingis

He fell further than I expected but I was like at least the decision makers might have seen what I saw. Looney as well I saw a guy who you could defend with a small forward and he'd have no advantage. He can't beat sf off the dribble or post him up cause he's too weak at a position you need strength. Gs is perfect for him though. I'm happy for him. He'll get time to come along and maybe be a new prototype depending on how they use him.

[queridiculo]

.
Welcome your opinons: Is it wrong of me to revel in schadenfreude associated wit the current state of the Knicks?

Teetering somewhere between schadenfreude, pity and sympathy.

Carmelo is a grown ass **** man. At some point he'll have to take responsibility for how his career has gone.

Nobody forced him to sign that max deal, and now that he did, he should take responsibility and own up to his end of the bargain.

[BruceO]

in just happy our playoff wing rotation for the future is set. With or without Pierce or Durant if the guys we have grow into their upsides. With durant it goes way up. Wall as a starter Is solid too. So championship perspective now all we gotta worry about is big men. We need three good ones. We have Gortat. Nene or Gooden or Humphries can be the backup. We need a starter. Surplus unneeded players like martell, Rasual, Those bigs I just mentioned I hope can be consolidated into a number two or one big man.

[closg00]

A little draft day fun,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/26/nba-draft-salaries_n_7674622.html

[barelyawake]

It is a bit odd, however, to select him when you're supposedly advertising yourself to '16 free agents, but then you use a top 15 pick on a guy who seemingly everyone is saying won't play meaningful minutes until at least 2017 barring horrible injuries.

Would anyone that the Zards picked at 19 have played meaningful minutes before 2017? Would any player picked in that spot have made much of an impression on 2016 free agents? Maybe so...but I have my doubts.

The growth and play of Beal, Wall, Otto and, to some extend, Gortat, will be the biggest factors in attracting 2016 free agents.

I swear I'm not picking on you by quoting you, but here's my two cents. People keep saying, "We need to get out of the second round." We might not make the second round without Pierce and with an aging Nene. I'm fine with the draft pick. It's a solid B. We need a major move more than anyone is willing to say, or we will go backwards and lose luster as a free agent destination. If we lose Pierce, we are losing our leader of last year. And even with an aging Pierce and aging Nene, we probably can't get it up like that again attempting to lean on them. Porter is not ready to step in and guide the team the way Pierce did. We need, and have needed, a major move. Let's hope management sees that. I keep worrying (because we haven't made a move for a star big yet, though we have needed to do so for years) that management are like global warming deniers. Everything is fine in their view until the tidal wave comes. We need to think like the other major teams in the league.

[hands11]

Thanks for your work TSW. I just looked at their college stats and they both put up better ppgs than Oubre. Wiggins and Oubres numbers for rebounds, free throw percentage, 3pt percentage, blocks are about the same. Kelly got 21mins while Wiggins got 32.

Paul George standing reach is 8 10. He was a better rebounder and assist man than Oubre who's standing reach is 8 6". Got me to thinking about Oubres dimensions and his best position. 7 ft 2 inch wing span plus 8 ft 6 standing reach.

wingspan is comparable to Paul George and Kawhis wingspan. Both elite defenders at the small forward. They both however have 8 ft 10 standing reaches. Four inches on Oubre.

The wings Jimmy Butler, Demar derozen and Klay Thompson who I think are better 2 guards have Oubres standing reach. They all however have 6 ft 9 wingspan. So Oubre is their height and standing reach but he has a longer wingspan and generally better athleticism other than possible derozen. Wiggins has unlisted stats but came in same weight and 6 8 height with shoes. He's slotted at Sf out of need but could have at high standing reach.

Leads me to believe that from a physical perspective our goal should be slotting Oubre at the two guard position.

Those guys to me have success. Look at Kobe, Klay, Rip, Jordan. I think big two guards are championship guards.

The good think is he's training with drew hanlan. The guy who is working with Wiggins and Beal. They're working on his three and D role first before they expand his game. He's a good wing coach so I think with our interchangeable wings Oubre should see time as our backup sg. A place we have a hole and I think he'll do really good. His size allows him to backup both wings but I think he'll be really really good with his height and weight if we groom him to be a shooting guard eventually

wingspan, hands size, skill, the eye test, mind/personality, work ethic, etc... I rate over standing reach...

When I see two player with the same wingspan, same height and different standing reaches I don't get it. Like someone pointed out, maybe they wanted a lower standing reach to make their vertical look better. If true, that's concerning. It goes to their mind set and being misleading which would bother me about a player. Not the end of the world, but something I would make note of regarding their mind/personality.

So when they start hanging like fish to measure standing reach, then I might pay more attention to it. Just to many moving part goes into that. Height is height. Wings and hand size is what it is. Standing reach... I don't know.. depending on how hard you are reaching. hips turned up ? shoulder max extended or not, etc. I don't know what the people measuring them demand of them.

[dckingsfan]

in just happy our playoff wing rotation for the future is set. With or without Pierce or Durant if the guys we have grow into their upsides. With durant it goes way up. Wall as a starter Is solid too. So championship perspective now all we gotta worry about is big men. We need three good ones. We have Gortat. Nene or Gooden or Humphries can be the backup. We need a starter. Surplus unneeded players like martell, Rasual, Those bigs I just mentioned I hope can be consolidated into a number two or one big man.

I think we have two. Gortat and Humphries. Nene expires after this year, we aren't going to bring Blair back. Gooden is a FA, same with Seraphin (who we shouldn't bring back).

We are going to need to use our MLE on a PF this year. So that will give us 3. If we can bring Gooden back on a vet min (doubtful) or less than MLE contract - great.

I also doubt that Kelly Oubre will play meaningful minutes this year (Wittman) or Webster (back), so we are probably set for the future but not so much this year. It will be interesting if Butler takes the vet minimum with us or looks for something larger (possibly overseas?).

[hands11]

I will say though, Oubre's production in year one leads me to believe he may not be as bad as projected in his rookie season. Dude has potential, just don't understand the fit unless we can get Porter to add 10 lbs of muscles to his legs lol.

Man. That would be so awesome if Porter developed the strength to be a stretch four full time. If we landed Durant, we could potentially have 5 interchangeable guys to guard positions 1 through 4 (Wall, Beal, Oubre, Durant, Porter).

He is already a good rebounder and he has the length. He will eventually get up to 225. If we are lucky, he comes into camp at 208-210 this year.

But its more likely a more mature player like KD does it. He is already 240, which is why I was questioning just how much they would go after a bigger S4/PF player given they already have Hump who will play the strong body S4/SBC, Gooden maybe back to do the same, PP as a SF/S4, and Otto who will play 2, 3 and small ball S4

Now I see more people finally warming up to this idea that KD will play more S4 instead of just a SF. This transition was already happening with him in OKC. KD isn't a skinny dude anymore. He is 240.

The key will be balancing the offense. KD is effective playing with the ball in his hands. He isn't and should just be an off ball player. That would be a waste of talent and money. He brings it up the floor and can be that full on SF/PF/PG that runs a team and come the playoff, we will need him to go into full take over mode like that.

This is why its important that Wall continues to develop well as a shooter, off ball player. The season is a grind and it shouldn't be an issue during the regular season. Wall can run most the offense and let KD get his time in running it as well. Then they will turn to KD to close the game out. But come the playoffs, KD will step up more and that is the beauty of a John Wall. He will sacrifice part of his game to win. I expect Wall to gear up his defense to 100% in the playoff and use more of his talent and energy on that. Space the floor and focus on attacking from the wing more instead of maintaining as high a ball in hand usage rate. Beal will ramp up his D as well and spot up. And that's the beauty of Otto. He is Go Go Gadget Porter.. Swiss Arm Knife. Lock down perimeter defender you can put on the other scorer to save some KD fouls and energy. They can so some of that positionless BB.

Who you want to stop ? Wall ? Beal ? KD ? Otto ? Gortat slicing for dunks with the floor open ? Now they have Oubre as another wing defender and Dez as a linebacker guard. They have time to find other pieces like a Gortat back up rim protector athlete. Rome wasn't built in a day.

To me, the key glue piece to continue this build is The Truth. He is the one with the maturity, swag, knowledge, etc to mold this team in the direction they need this year.

Anyway..I think its a good idea to start talking about S4s in categories. All S4s are not the same.

There are at least...

S4/C types like Dirk, LMA
S4/PF/small ball center types like Hump can become and the D Green is.
S4/SF/PG ball handling types like KD
S4 back up SG/SF/perimeter defender types like Otto can become.

Then there is Lebron..

[dckingsfan]

So, we draft another SF and now we want Porter to move to PF? Sheesh... not happening. Both Oubre and Porter are more likely to help at the SG position than S4 at this point. And Porter's time at SG wasn't what I would call stellar.

[Sluggerface]

I really don't see an issue with playing Otto at the 4. Realistically, how many players have post games that you have to really worry about? The traditional post game is all but dead in today's game. Obviously you're not gonna play Porter against someone like Zach Randolph, but guys like Paul Millsap who have really sub-par back to the basket play, like 90% of the bigs in the league, I just don't see the issue. Otto has the speed and length (not saying strength isn't important, but quickness if a far greater indicator of rebounding ability IMO) to compete with other 4's on the boards.

[Ruzious]

Hands, If Durant is 240, then he needs to stop eating a diet of triple cheeseburgers and pure lard fries.

[fishercob]

I will say though, Oubre's production in year one leads me to believe he may not be as bad as projected in his rookie season. Dude has potential, just don't understand the fit unless we can get Porter to add 10 lbs of muscles to his legs lol.

Man. That would be so awesome if Porter developed the strength to be a stretch four full time. If we landed Durant, we could potentially have 5 interchangeable guys to guard positions 1 through 4 (Wall, Beal, Oubre, Durant, Porter).

I honestly believe that this is consistent with the front office's vision. At the beginning of last (his rookie) season, Wittman said that long term, they envisioned Otto as playing some 4.

[barelyawake]

I will say though, Oubre's production in year one leads me to believe he may not be as bad as projected in his rookie season. Dude has potential, just don't understand the fit unless we can get Porter to add 10 lbs of muscles to his legs lol.

Man. That would be so awesome if Porter developed the strength to be a stretch four full time. If we landed Durant, we could potentially have 5 interchangeable guys to guard positions 1 through 4 (Wall, Beal, Oubre, Durant, Porter).

I honestly believe that this is consistent with the front office's vision. At the beginning of last (his rookie) season, Wittman said that long term, they envisioned Otto as playing some 4.

With Gortat as our rim protector and only post scorer? I hope to god management doesn't overrate Gortat like that. It's insane.

[fishercob]

Man. That would be so awesome if Porter developed the strength to be a stretch four full time. If we landed Durant, we could potentially have 5 interchangeable guys to guard positions 1 through 4 (Wall, Beal, Oubre, Durant, Porter).

I honestly believe that this is consistent with the front office's vision. At the beginning of last (his rookie) season, Wittman said that long term, they envisioned Otto as playing some 4.

With Gortat as our rim protector and only post scorer? I hope to god management doesn't overrate Gortat like that. It's insane.

He's been the rim protector and defensive anchor of an elite defense the past two seasons.