Stanley Johnson vs. Justise Winslow, let's get this over with

[mercury]

Notanoob, thanks for the extra effort in your research... good work.
Is there a stat for commitment and hard work to achieving excellence?... because nobody will put in more time than SJ ("have to kick him out of the gym")... what about physical attributes defending bigger SFs?... any stats?
Attitude as a teammate and attention to detail working with the coaching staff... what's the +/- for this?
There was something that that struck a cord with SVG that could translate beyond bare numbers... I'm perfectly content with that!

[mercury]

Gotta side with the guys that do this stuff for a living... http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2015/06/27/aaron-wolf-datascope-analytics/29412087/

[DETermination]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgErk4xt5qE[/youtube]

I love this Stanley interview the most. During the interview he says " Its all about work ethic for me and I think im one of the hardest workers in the country, once I feel like there is a part of my game that I'm not good at I go to the gym and I don't leave the gym until its better."

I love this kid.

[Pharaoh]

Natanoob - awesome OP. Thanks for putting all that info in one place.

Hate the topic though.

Had we picked Winslow everyone would have STFU and supported the pick.

SVG chooses SJ and it's a "meltdown".

I believe everything that needed to be said has been said. Stan picked who he picked - unlike Joe who normally just picked the player that fell

I hope we can move on and support SJ and this doesn't hang over his head for his career

[Mr. Krabs]

I think people who say that both players are similar in size are failing the eye test. Johnson is built like a tank and was compared to Lebron in terms of body type a couple of times by play-by-play announcers. Justise does not have that kind of frame.

And again, I wanted neither in this draft. My guy was Mudiay, so i am not a Johnson supporter or anything. Just pointing out that they are pretty even quality players with very different approaches to the game.

[OneBadMutha]

Stats are nice but if it was just about advanced stats, computers would draft for everyone. I disagree with BPA theory. It's what Joe started to do...and its opposite of what he did when he had tons of success.

It comes down to best fit available. If talent is close, you go for fit. Fit has so much to do with whether a player reaches potential with his first team or not. Versatility is also not measurable in stats. Winslow had most of his success as a PF in college. No way he's going to play PF in the NBA. Opposite is true with SJ who has the body type to hold his own at PF. Versatility at both ends helps schemes and helps fit with other teammates.

Then intangibles matter. They matter a lot. Toughness, character, motor...these things are contagious. Both the good and the bad. SJ is considered the tougher player by SVG. He's considered the harder worker. How many times did SVG say after games that the Pistons were better than their results...but players just didn't have the mentality to get after it for 48 minutes? You need Bulldogs amongst your best players.

[vic]

Let's all just ignore the biggest factor in basketball in the past decade - spacing.
Coach K is a top 4 all time bball coach and made a genius move that coincided with Justise explosion plus he had the best post player since Shaq surrounded by 3 point shooters.
But yeah let's just ignore all that and act like it makes no difference. It didn't make a difference for the Pistons, it didn't make a difference in the Finals for Golden state

Any honest statistical comparison has to take system into account. It's common knowledge that lack of spacing depresses performance.

[Brapman]

Upon one thing, Stanley Johnson's entire ceiling as a pro depends:

Shooting. He's got everything else to become an outstanding pro. Great body, great BBIQ. Incredible work ethic and drive to be great (I've become sold on this post-draft watching his videos and listening to his coaches and Stan), the ability to use both hands, decent handle, good FT shooting, great rebounder, great position versatility - he has superior positional versatility to Winslow because he's way thicker and stronger, even though Justice is quite strong too. Stanley is a legit 3, and can guard 2's and some 4's and some 1's. Winslow is really a SG and can guard 1's and some 3's but not 4's. Both are good athletes with very good feet. Stanley has outstanding defensive skills, including getting into perfect defensive stances and the ability to move his feet properly to cover ground. The other thing he has is the ability to play smashmouth playoff style BB and to get to the FT line.

His work ethic and great coaching gives him an excellent chance to reach his potential - which is pretty high. I think that upside potential is borderline all-star and core player (top 3 level) on championship teams. I also see him as a team leader type.

I was a guy who had Winslow higher on my draft board, but after the fact, studying Johnson more, I think the Pistons made the right choice. Winslow is more of a SG, and I'm not sure he'll ever be a good enough shooter for that position. I think his upside is also borderline all-star, but that will depend on him finding the right team to use his skills. (Miami, if they stay together is actually one of those teams - he might have gotten really lucky falling to them). I think Stanley has more versatility on being a core player in a larger variety of team styles.