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The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED)

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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#941 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:10 am

Spoiler:
NavLDO wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Amazing how according to that Draft Analysis, damn near every team got an A or a B.


Yeah, draft grades are 'fun'; If I had to choose my top 5 and bottom 5 'draft classes', this is who I would choose, based on projected value--not so much about who fits what system, because a lot of these guys are chosen for potential assets:

TOP 5:
Houston--Dekker, Harrell: I said before the draft that some playoff team is going to get lucky by drafting Harrell, and unfortunately, it was the Rockets. Dekker was decent value @ 18, but Harrell was a down-right steal @ 32. There were easily 10 guys chosen ahead of Harrell that IMO, shouldn't have.

Minnesota--Towns, Jones: Yeah, the trade value wasn't great for the Wolves, but they needed an upgrade at PG and a young C, and they got them both. Just look at their young talent: Towns, Dieng, Wiggins, Payne, Shabazz, Lavine, Jones, and Bennett.

Miami Heat--Winslow, Richardson: I personally thought Richardson was underrated, so that coupled with stealing Winslow @ 10, at a position of great need, was just a fantastic haul for them, which is bad for us in trying to get future value out of the picks we got from them.

Philadelphia--Okafor, Holmes, Gudaitis, Tokoto, Mitrovic: True, what are they going to do with 10 Bigs on the team, but Hinkie will no doubt turn them into something. Okafor and Holmes were great value, IMO, so now with Embiid, Noel, Saric, Holmes, Okafor, and Wroton, they have some good pieces.

Nets--Hollis-Jefferson, McCullough: RHJ at 23 is a steal, and McCullough was a 'swing for the fences' pick, that could very well turn out to be huge for them. Then needed young talent and got two highly talented players

BOTTOM 5:
Hawks--Eriksson, Agaravanis: They are a playoff team that are potentially going to lose Carroll and Millsap, and they plan to replace them with...ummm...yeah. Maybe their plan is to go hard in FA, but their team, as constructed, is headed downward; they should have kept Oubre.

Celtics--Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, Thornton: Huge reach on Rozier, and not a huge fan of Hunter, personally. And add to the fact that they have IT, Smart, and Avery, where do these guys fit in? And neither are 'great' trade pieces either.

Memphis Grizzlies--Martin: Simply, Martin was a 'reach', IMO, by at least 7-10 picks. Better options were available.

San Antonio Spurs--Milutinov, Lalanne: I get what they are trying to in FA, but Milutinov was a reach. They would have been better served to trade the pick. Surely the return they would've gotten back would've been better value than Milutinov.

Indiana Pacers--Turner, Young: This is more of an indictment on Turner than Young. They had better options available to them at 11.

I would rate our draft somewhere in the middle. We got good value with Booker, and fair value on the trade. Personally, like most other Suns' posters, would have preferred a 'Big', but Booker was better value than anyone left on the board at 13, so McD made the right call, if he couldn't trade down. And Leuer, while nothing special, at least provides us with an energetic, potential Stretch-4, who's on a cheap contract, so, it's hard to argue with the decision. Definitely better than keeping Andrew Harrison.


Nice analysis. It will be interesting to see what Turner ends up being. I think he has the highest range of bust to boom in this draft. I like the Pacers, so I hope he does well. He is super raw though and we won't know for a few years. I may need to archive this sentence...because over the next two years there will probably be a lot of "I knew Turner would suck" statements...and they might end up being true, but I think you won't know for sure with him for about 3 years...could be like a Jermaine O Neal.

O Neal never averaged as much as 5 pts a game for four years, and then suddenly was a 20/10 guy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html
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Post#942 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:32 am

Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.
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Re: 

Post#943 » by Blackification » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:43 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.

Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.
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Re: 

Post#944 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:03 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.


Yes, and a good draft, most teams will get good grades. As for Detroit and Stanley Johnson. I made a post about what Stanley has to offer in the Pistons draft thread after they drafted him (many were upset they didn't take Winslow) because people that haven't watched all of his games may think it was the wrong pick. The dude is clutch and is a winner. Not saying Winslow isn't....but Stanley isn't a slouch..he's a stud. Obviously Stan the Man liked Stan the Man.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#945 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:05 am

Why is it so many try to push a SF into PF role for us ??? Cant we just get a legit PF ??? Bad enough we have short guards. Lets get some legit size.

As for Booker's athleticism... Did I hear from the Talking Heads he ranked #1 on the agility drill ?



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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#946 » by Revived » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:38 am

Did the Suns sign any good UDFA big men? Christian Wood anyone?
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#947 » by ATTL » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:08 am

Wood is already with the Rockets I think?
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#948 » by Damkac » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:54 am

Frank Lee wrote:Why is it so many try to push a SF into PF role for us ??? Cant we just get a legit PF ??? Bad enough we have short guards. Lets get some legit size.

As for Booker's athleticism... Did I hear from the Talking Heads he ranked #1 on the agility drill ?



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I think Suns want a stretch 4 for better spacing and easier drives for Bledsoe. There aren't many shooting big men so they might go with a big sf at this position.
Suns already tried to make Kieff a stretch 4 but his shoot isn't good enought for this. He should stay at the midrange which would also help his rebounding.
Unless Bledsoe, Warren, Tucker, Goodwin all improve their 3 point shooting I fear that tradicional pf playing near the basket wouldn't be a good idea.
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Re: Re: 

Post#949 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:31 pm

Blackification wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.

Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#950 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:53 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Why is it so many try to push a SF into PF role for us ??? Cant we just get a legit PF ??? Bad enough we have short guards. Lets get some legit size.

As for Booker's athleticism... Did I hear from the Talking Heads he ranked #1 on the agility drill ?


Yes, you heard correctly. He was tops in "Lane Agility" and "Shuttle Run", and he was tied for 20th out of 48 in the "3/4 Sprint". But some don't believe in these tests as being telling of athleticism, but IMO, it at least shows the 'ability', even if it doesn't 'prove' a player's athleticism.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2015-nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-results

And another thing, I do not believe we have 'short guards'. Bledsoe is short, yes, but Knight (6'3") Goodwin (6'5"), Bullock (6'7"), and now Booker (6'6"), we have respectable enough of size, especially if Horny 'refrains' from playing Bledsoe/Knight together too often. But even then, Bledsoe has great 'length' in proportion to his height, so his height is a bit misleading. And when we play Tucker (6'5.5") at SG, he's plenty big enough as well. The concern is when we play Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker at the 1,2,3 spots, where IMO, we're putting out a 'small' back court.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#951 » by Bogyo » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:06 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Why is it so many try to push a SF into PF role for us ??? Cant we just get a legit PF ??? Bad enough we have short guards. Lets get some legit size.

As for Booker's athleticism... Did I hear from the Talking Heads he ranked #1 on the agility drill ?


Yes, you heard correctly. He was tops in "Lane Agility" and "Shuttle Run", and he was tied for 20th out of 48 in the "3/4 Sprint". But some don't believe in these tests as being telling of athleticism, but IMO, it at least shows the 'ability', even if it doesn't 'prove' a player's athleticism.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2015-nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-results

And another thing, I do not believe we have 'short guards'. Bledsoe is short, yes, but Knight (6'3") Goodwin (6'5"), Bullock (6'7"), and now Booker (6'6"), we have respectable enough of size, especially if Horny 'refrains' from playing Bledsoe/Knight together too often. But even then, Bledsoe has great 'length' in proportion to his height, so his height is a bit misleading. And when we play Tucker (6'5.5") at SG, he's plenty big enough as well. The concern is when we play Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker at the 1,2,3 spots, where IMO, we're putting out a 'small' back court.


One more thing: from the looks of him, I'd say that he has some baby-fat, and not really chiseled at all. Once he gets the NBA nutrition (no more fast food for u, kiddo!), and NBA conditioning, he will get more athletic. He wont be dunk champ or whatever, but he'll get better in this regard I'm 100% sure.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#952 » by rsavaj » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:35 pm

Damkac wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Why is it so many try to push a SF into PF role for us ??? Cant we just get a legit PF ??? Bad enough we have short guards. Lets get some legit size.

As for Booker's athleticism... Did I hear from the Talking Heads he ranked #1 on the agility drill ?



Image

I think Suns want a stretch 4 for better spacing and easier drives for Bledsoe. There aren't many shooting big men so they might go with a big sf at this position.
Suns already tried to make Kieff a stretch 4 but his shoot isn't good enought for this. He should stay at the midrange which would also help his rebounding.
Unless Bledsoe, Warren, Tucker, Goodwin all improve their 3 point shooting I fear that tradicional pf playing near the basket wouldn't be a good idea.


Agreed. The league is changing; D'Antoni and Nash started the revolution a decade ago, but it's been fully realized now with Golden State winning the title. Positions are becoming meaningless, spacing is king, shooters are at a premium.
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Re: Re: 

Post#953 » by rsavaj » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:36 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Blackification wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.

Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


I love Len and I'm extremely happy we didn't take McLemore, but I still think Noel should have been the pick. IMO, he outplayed Len last season. He already looks like one of the best rim-protectors in the league and he was trending upwards towards the end of the year. Plus, he's a year younger than Alex.

I think Alex has the higher ceiling since his offensive game is much more refined than Noel's and his defensive ceiling is high as well, but right now, Noel is the better prospect IMO
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Re: Re: 

Post#954 » by PassWarden » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:49 pm

rsavaj wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Blackification wrote:Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


I love Len and I'm extremely happy we didn't take McLemore, but I still think Noel should have been the pick. IMO, he outplayed Len last season. He already looks like one of the best rim-protectors in the league and he was trending upwards towards the end of the year. Plus, he's a year younger than Alex.

I think Alex has the higher ceiling since his offensive game is much more refined than Noel's and his defensive ceiling is high as well, but right now, Noel is the better prospect IMO


What tends to be forgotten about Alex Len is that, when healthy he was a brick wall down around the basket. It was honestly enjoyable to watch him play defense.
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Re: Re: 

Post#955 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:05 pm

rsavaj wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Blackification wrote:Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


I love Len and I'm extremely happy we didn't take McLemore, but I still think Noel should have been the pick. IMO, he outplayed Len last season. He already looks like one of the best rim-protectors in the league and he was trending upwards towards the end of the year. Plus, he's a year younger than Alex.

I think Alex has the higher ceiling since his offensive game is much more refined than Noel's and his defensive ceiling is high as well, but right now, Noel is the better prospect IMO


I have to agree on Noel. It's not 'night and day' difference, mind you. When Alex Len is healthy, he's no slouch on D, and he does provide a much greater offensive repertoire, but Noel has a chance to be a top 3 defender in this league, whereas Len will likely be a nice, solid, well-rounded Center in the NBA, and could absolutely be considered a piece to a "Big 3", if we ever get there, and to me will allow us to forget about the 5 for a decade or more. And while Noel may not be gifted offensively, it doesn't preclude him fro eventually getting there, so there may come a time where the difference between Noel's and Len's D capability may be greater than the difference between Len's an Noel's O capability, even if right now, I think combined, Len's D+O is the greater sum than Noel's D+O. I guess that's the long way to say that I think Noel's "Ceiling" his higher than Len's, but feel Len's "Floor" is higher than Noel.
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The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#956 » by JoRain » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:52 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Blackification wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Draft grades are always kind of dumb since it's really just a grade on where a guy is picked compared to where that grader had them ranked and the guys ranking them aren't usually good enough to be employed by an NBA team so really who cares what they think.

With that said I can see how this year most teams get a good grade. How the draft played out most teams got a guy they wanted and there weren't many head scratchers. If the biggest argument is the Pistons taking Johnson over Winslow then it shows how truly chalk this draft was. Suns are in that mix, for who was left it was kind of a no brainer picking booker and it's why I don't think I've seen any national talking head say it wasn't a good pick.

Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


Would agree that Booker is fairly safe pick, with an NBA skill, but I strongly have to disagree with ceiling. I think his ceiling is quite low; his standing reach and wingspan are very small, so small that in fact there are only 7 players in the league with such a small measurements, best of them being J.J.Redick, O.J.Mayo and Gary Harris. To top that, Booker is bigger than all 7 which make those measurements even smaller in comparison. Add to that his lack of explosiveness and you get a player, who will not be able to finish constantly at the rim (showed that in college), not going to be able to get to free throw line and will be limited defensivly. I other words, he's never going to be like Klay Thompson. I don't think that is really fair to Booker comparing him to Klay, as these kinds of expectations will result in big disappointment for all. He might become like Redick if we're lucky, but I think taller version of Randy Foye is more likely, which is not that catastrophic picking 13 at all.
To sum it up, safe player with role in the NBA, but also very limited upside.

Overall I'm ok with the pick, giving the other options available, though personally, if we would be set on shooter, I would probably reach for Hunter as I believe his potential and versatility is higher than Bookers.




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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#957 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:53 pm

JoRain wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Blackification wrote:Well he was considered the BPA at the pick so thats definitely true about why it was a no brainer. On top of that he was the best shooter in the draft when the league is becoming more dependent on shooters. Overall it as mostly a safe draft where there weren't many big reaches and the picks made sense.


In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


Would agree that Booker is fairly safe pick, with an NBA skill, but I strongly have to disagree with ceiling. I think his ceiling is quite low; his standing reach and wingspan are very small, so small that in fact there are only 7 players in the league with such a small measurements, best of them being J.J.Redick, O.J.Mayo and Gary Harris. To top that, Booker is bigger than all 7 which make those measurements even smaller in comparison. Add to that his lack of explosiveness and you get a player, who will not be able to finish constantly at the rim (showed that in college), not going to be able to get to free throw line and will be limited defensivly. I other words, he's never going to be like Klay Thompson. I don't think that is really fair to Booker comparing him to Klay, as these kinds of expectations will result in big disappointment for all. He might become like Redick if we're lucky, but I think taller version of Randy Foye is more likely, which is not that catastrophic picking 13 at all.
To sum it up, safe player with role in the NBA, but also very limited upside.

Overall I'm ok with the pick, giving the other options available, though personally, if we would be set on shooter, I would probably reach for Hunter as I believe his potential and versatility is higher than Bookers.

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I find it extremely difficult to believe that Booker's Wingspan/Standing Reach is the 7th 'shortest' in the league. Where are you getting this information from?

Booker, at 6' 5.75", 206lbs, has a 6' 8.25" wingspan and 8' 6.5" standing reach. He doesn't turn 19 for another 4 months, which means he is likely still growing to some extent, and may include his leg/arm length, especially considering his wingspan and reach were measured at the Combine, respectively, 2 and 1.5" longer than they did at UK's pro day last year.

Other prospects this year with one or both Wingspan/Standing Reach measurements 'shorter' than Booker:

Justin Anderson SF--6' 6.25'', 230.6, 6' 11.75'', 8' 5''
Michael Frazier II SG--6' 4.25'' 199.4, 6' 8'', 8' 5.5''
Jerian Grant PG--6' 4.25'', 198.0, 6' 7.5", 8' 4''
Olivier Hanlan PG--6' 4.25'', 185.8, 6' 6.5'', 8' 4''
Aaron Harrison SG--6' 6'', 209.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 4.5''
Andrew Harrison PG--6' 5.5'', 213.2, 6' 9'', 8' 4''
Tyler Harvey SG--6' 4',' 181.4, 6' 5.5'', 8' 2.5''
Stanley Johnson SF--6' 6.5'', 241.8, 6' 11.5'', 8' 6''
Kelly Oubre SF--6' 6.75'', 202.8, 7' 2.25'', 8' 6.5''
Norman Powell SG--6' 4.25'', 215.4, 6' 10.75'', 8' 6.5''
Terry Rozier PG--6' 2.25'', 190.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 2.5''
DAngelo Russell PG--6' 5'', 193.4, 6' 9.75'', 8' 6''
Marcus Thornton WM PG--6' 2.75'', 177.4, 6' 7.75'', 8' 1.5''
JP Tokoto SF--6' 6.25'', 195.8, 6' 10'', 8' 4.5''
Rashad Vaughn SG--6' 5'', 198.6, 6' 7'', 8' 5''
Delon Wright PG--6' 5.5'', 181.4, 6' 7.5'', 8' 5.5''

As a count at least 10 from this list that were drafted, I have a hard time believing your assertion that only 7 players in the NBA have shorter measurements than Booker.

His measurements, while not 'ideal' are far from him being considered unusually short, and that there are 4 prospects above that are SFs, and 5 prospects being SGs, yes, there are 7 that are PGs. 5 of the above are taller in shoes, and 4 are shorter by less than an inch. So, Booker's measurements are not so incredibly short that it means he doesn't, or can't, have a high ceiling is extremely fallible reasoning. And taking into account that his release point is so high, further adds to the fact that his perceived 'shortness' will likely not be an issue.

So, I'll reiterate my assertion that Booker does, in fact, have a high ceiling. His shooting prowess, talent level, and BBIQ, all while considering him still being 4 months from turning 19, lend to the fact that he is likely to have a high ceiling, and making an assertion based on arm-length, to me, is short-sided. He may never be a defensive stud, but I hardly think he'll be defensive liability, as his timed athleticism lends to the fact that he should be able to 'stick' with his guy.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#958 » by JoRain » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:23 pm

NavLDO wrote:
JoRain wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
In addition, I was happy to see McD grab Booker at our draft slot for another reason. Yes, he was highly regarded as the BPA; to me, that is important because it shows, at least to me, that McD didn't overthink the pick or try to get 'cute'. I was a little concerned, TBH. After he took Len instead of Noel/McLemore, and then Warren with guys like Harris, Wood, and Payne still available, I was beginning to think McD was 'overthinking' the process.

Now, all that said, I'm happy with Len and Warren as the selections, and don't think that McD necessarily chose poorly, but I wanted to see at least once where his top prospect left matched the majority consensus BPA, and this year, the two came together. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? Or am I :crazy: ??

And yes, I agree, Booker was a fairly 'safe' pick--a guy that I think has a high ceiling, but also a 'high floor', even if he wasn't at a position of great need, he fills a 'role' of a great need. At worst, he's Gerald Green, IMO. At best, yes, Klay Thompson-esque type player.


Would agree that Booker is fairly safe pick, with an NBA skill, but I strongly have to disagree with ceiling. I think his ceiling is quite low; his standing reach and wingspan are very small, so small that in fact there are only 7 players in the league with such a small measurements, best of them being J.J.Redick, O.J.Mayo and Gary Harris. To top that, Booker is bigger than all 7 which make those measurements even smaller in comparison. Add to that his lack of explosiveness and you get a player, who will not be able to finish constantly at the rim (showed that in college), not going to be able to get to free throw line and will be limited defensivly. I other words, he's never going to be like Klay Thompson. I don't think that is really fair to Booker comparing him to Klay, as these kinds of expectations will result in big disappointment for all. He might become like Redick if we're lucky, but I think taller version of Randy Foye is more likely, which is not that catastrophic picking 13 at all.
To sum it up, safe player with role in the NBA, but also very limited upside.

Overall I'm ok with the pick, giving the other options available, though personally, if we would be set on shooter, I would probably reach for Hunter as I believe his potential and versatility is higher than Bookers.

Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app


I find it extremely difficult to believe that Booker's Wingspan/Standing Reach is the 7th 'shortest' in the league. Where are you getting this information from?

Booker, at 6' 5.75", 206lbs, has a 6' 8.25" wingspan and 8' 6.5" standing reach. He doesn't turn 19 for another 4 months, which means he is likely still growing to some extent, and may include his leg/arm length, especially considering his wingspan and reach were measured at the Combine, respectively, 2 and 1.5" longer than they did at UK's pro day last year.

Other prospects this year with one or both Wingspan/Standing Reach measurements 'shorter' than Booker:

Justin Anderson SF--6' 6.25'', 230.6, 6' 11.75'', 8' 5''
Michael Frazier II SG--6' 4.25'' 199.4, 6' 8'', 8' 5.5''
Jerian Grant PG--6' 4.25'', 198.0, 6' 7.5", 8' 4''
Olivier Hanlan PG--6' 4.25'', 185.8, 6' 6.5'', 8' 4''
Aaron Harrison SG--6' 6'', 209.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 4.5''
Andrew Harrison PG--6' 5.5'', 213.2, 6' 9'', 8' 4''
Tyler Harvey SG--6' 4',' 181.4, 6' 5.5'', 8' 2.5''
Stanley Johnson SF--6' 6.5'', 241.8, 6' 11.5'', 8' 6''
Kelly Oubre SF--6' 6.75'', 202.8, 7' 2.25'', 8' 6.5''
Norman Powell SG--6' 4.25'', 215.4, 6' 10.75'', 8' 6.5''
Terry Rozier PG--6' 2.25'', 190.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 2.5''
DAngelo Russell PG--6' 5'', 193.4, 6' 9.75'', 8' 6''
Marcus Thornton WM PG--6' 2.75'', 177.4, 6' 7.75'', 8' 1.5''
JP Tokoto SF--6' 6.25'', 195.8, 6' 10'', 8' 4.5''
Rashad Vaughn SG--6' 5'', 198.6, 6' 7'', 8' 5''
Delon Wright PG--6' 5.5'', 181.4, 6' 7.5'', 8' 5.5''

As a count at least 10 from this list that were drafted, I have a hard time believing your assertion that only 7 players in the NBA have shorter measurements than Booker.

His measurements, while not 'ideal' are far from him being considered unusually short, and that there are 4 prospects above that are SFs, and 5 prospects being SGs, yes, there are 7 that are PGs. 5 of the above are taller in shoes, and 4 are shorter by less than an inch. So, Booker's measurements are not so incredibly short that it means he doesn't, or can't, have a high ceiling is extremely fallible reasoning. And taking into account that his release point is so high, further adds to the fact that his perceived 'shortness' will likely not be an issue.

So, I'll reiterate my assertion that Booker does, in fact, have a high ceiling. His shooting prowess, talent level, and BBIQ, all while considering him still being 4 months from turning 19, lend to the fact that he is likely to have a high ceiling, and making an assertion based on arm-length, to me, is short-sided. He may never be a defensive stud, but I hardly think he'll be defensive liability, as his timed athleticism lends to the fact that he should be able to 'stick' with his guy.


draftexpress:
The number of players in the NBA who aren't point guards and possess a wingspan shorter than 6-6 and a standing reach under 8-4 is fairly small: J.J. Redick, O.J. Mayo, Kirk Hinrich, Marcus Thornton, Jody Meeks, Gary Harris, Randy Foye.
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#959 » by Safety Pickle » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:52 pm

JoRain wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
JoRain wrote:
Would agree that Booker is fairly safe pick, with an NBA skill, but I strongly have to disagree with ceiling. I think his ceiling is quite low; his standing reach and wingspan are very small, so small that in fact there are only 7 players in the league with such a small measurements, best of them being J.J.Redick, O.J.Mayo and Gary Harris. To top that, Booker is bigger than all 7 which make those measurements even smaller in comparison. Add to that his lack of explosiveness and you get a player, who will not be able to finish constantly at the rim (showed that in college), not going to be able to get to free throw line and will be limited defensivly. I other words, he's never going to be like Klay Thompson. I don't think that is really fair to Booker comparing him to Klay, as these kinds of expectations will result in big disappointment for all. He might become like Redick if we're lucky, but I think taller version of Randy Foye is more likely, which is not that catastrophic picking 13 at all.
To sum it up, safe player with role in the NBA, but also very limited upside.

Overall I'm ok with the pick, giving the other options available, though personally, if we would be set on shooter, I would probably reach for Hunter as I believe his potential and versatility is higher than Bookers.

Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums mobile app


I find it extremely difficult to believe that Booker's Wingspan/Standing Reach is the 7th 'shortest' in the league. Where are you getting this information from?

Booker, at 6' 5.75", 206lbs, has a 6' 8.25" wingspan and 8' 6.5" standing reach. He doesn't turn 19 for another 4 months, which means he is likely still growing to some extent, and may include his leg/arm length, especially considering his wingspan and reach were measured at the Combine, respectively, 2 and 1.5" longer than they did at UK's pro day last year.

Other prospects this year with one or both Wingspan/Standing Reach measurements 'shorter' than Booker:

Justin Anderson SF--6' 6.25'', 230.6, 6' 11.75'', 8' 5''
Michael Frazier II SG--6' 4.25'' 199.4, 6' 8'', 8' 5.5''
Jerian Grant PG--6' 4.25'', 198.0, 6' 7.5", 8' 4''
Olivier Hanlan PG--6' 4.25'', 185.8, 6' 6.5'', 8' 4''
Aaron Harrison SG--6' 6'', 209.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 4.5''
Andrew Harrison PG--6' 5.5'', 213.2, 6' 9'', 8' 4''
Tyler Harvey SG--6' 4',' 181.4, 6' 5.5'', 8' 2.5''
Stanley Johnson SF--6' 6.5'', 241.8, 6' 11.5'', 8' 6''
Kelly Oubre SF--6' 6.75'', 202.8, 7' 2.25'', 8' 6.5''
Norman Powell SG--6' 4.25'', 215.4, 6' 10.75'', 8' 6.5''
Terry Rozier PG--6' 2.25'', 190.2, 6' 8.25'', 8' 2.5''
DAngelo Russell PG--6' 5'', 193.4, 6' 9.75'', 8' 6''
Marcus Thornton WM PG--6' 2.75'', 177.4, 6' 7.75'', 8' 1.5''
JP Tokoto SF--6' 6.25'', 195.8, 6' 10'', 8' 4.5''
Rashad Vaughn SG--6' 5'', 198.6, 6' 7'', 8' 5''
Delon Wright PG--6' 5.5'', 181.4, 6' 7.5'', 8' 5.5''

As a count at least 10 from this list that were drafted, I have a hard time believing your assertion that only 7 players in the NBA have shorter measurements than Booker.

His measurements, while not 'ideal' are far from him being considered unusually short, and that there are 4 prospects above that are SFs, and 5 prospects being SGs, yes, there are 7 that are PGs. 5 of the above are taller in shoes, and 4 are shorter by less than an inch. So, Booker's measurements are not so incredibly short that it means he doesn't, or can't, have a high ceiling is extremely fallible reasoning. And taking into account that his release point is so high, further adds to the fact that his perceived 'shortness' will likely not be an issue.

So, I'll reiterate my assertion that Booker does, in fact, have a high ceiling. His shooting prowess, talent level, and BBIQ, all while considering him still being 4 months from turning 19, lend to the fact that he is likely to have a high ceiling, and making an assertion based on arm-length, to me, is short-sided. He may never be a defensive stud, but I hardly think he'll be defensive liability, as his timed athleticism lends to the fact that he should be able to 'stick' with his guy.


draftexpress:
The number of players in the NBA who aren't point guards and possess a wingspan shorter than 6-6 and a standing reach under 8-4 is fairly small: J.J. Redick, O.J. Mayo, Kirk Hinrich, Marcus Thornton, Jody Meeks, Gary Harris, Randy Foye.


Booker's wingspan is listed at 6' 8.25". I think your are mistaking his height for his wingspan
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Re: The 2015 Draft Thread (MERGED) 

Post#960 » by JMac1 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:19 pm

JoRain wrote:draftexpress:
The number of players in the NBA who aren't point guards and possess a wingspan shorter than 6-6 and a standing reach under 8-4 is fairly small: J.J. Redick, O.J. Mayo, Kirk Hinrich, Marcus Thornton, Jody Meeks, Gary Harris, Randy Foye.


What does that have to do with Booker?

Booker size is prototypical for a SG or better. I don't know what it is an issue; also, his athleticism is above average. Testing does matter, that is way they test. You can't say someone is not athletic and he performs better in the athletic tests and you still say he isn't athletic enough because you thought he wasn't.

Plus....the kid is 18!!! You can't put a cap on an 18 year old..... I like the Booker pick very much.

6'6 208 isn't big enough........at 18 :lol:

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