Tobias Harris To Pursue Near Max Deal With Pistons, Celtics Among Leading Suitors

[Snakebites]

Why would Green come to a 32-50 Detroit team to come off the bench? Makes no sense. if he comes here and we pay him 11-12 mil a year, he is starting.


http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2015/04/detroit_pistons_coach_puts_ken.html

from this article I don't think SVG is sold on KCP

Pretty much hit it. Virtually any free agent of note will expect to start for the Pistons, and should.

We'll have a hard enough time getting a player like Green (used to winning and likely to have options to remain in a winning situation) to consider signing here, but offering a starting position is necessary.

I also agree on KCP. I think one thing nobody really wants to think about right now is that Jackson/KCP/Johnson cannot and will not be our starting perimeter going forward. Why? SVG is all about spacing and shooting. None of those 3 players are dead eye shooters that will consistently command the respect and gravity of defenses, a necessary component to a SVG offense.

This probably would have been true if we'd drafted Winslow too, but I see a trade or return to the bench in the future for one of our guys. I suspect we'll sign or trade for SOMEBODY who can shoot the 3 in the offseason at small forward who will start (everything we've heard before the draft and since suggest SVG never intended to start our draft pick out of the shoot).

Should Stanley progress to the point where he commands a starting position, expect KCP to either be traded or transitioned into a 6th man-type roll.

You're thinking about Orlando Stan. Stan in Miami had 2 good shooters on the entire roster. I think we'll see a hybrid of the two here. Stan seems to really like KCP.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I think even a hybrid approach would see us with more than one reliable shooter in our starting lineup.

Just because he likes KCP doesn't mean for sure he's our starter for the foreseeable future. Coaches and GMs trade or change the roles of players they "like" all the time.

[tradez401]

i feel like if we signed green he'd be at the starting 2 not the 3

[ComboGuardCity]

Pretty much hit it. Virtually any free agent of note will expect to start for the Pistons, and should.

We'll have a hard enough time getting a player like Green (used to winning and likely to have options to remain in a winning situation) to consider signing here, but offering a starting position is necessary.

I also agree on KCP. I think one thing nobody really wants to think about right now is that Jackson/KCP/Johnson cannot and will not be our starting perimeter going forward. Why? SVG is all about spacing and shooting. None of those 3 players are dead eye shooters that will consistently command the respect and gravity of defenses, a necessary component to a SVG offense.

This probably would have been true if we'd drafted Winslow too, but I see a trade or return to the bench in the future for one of our guys. I suspect we'll sign or trade for SOMEBODY who can shoot the 3 in the offseason at small forward who will start (everything we've heard before the draft and since suggest SVG never intended to start our draft pick out of the shoot).

Should Stanley progress to the point where he commands a starting position, expect KCP to either be traded or transitioned into a 6th man-type roll.

You're thinking about Orlando Stan. Stan in Miami had 2 good shooters on the entire roster. I think we'll see a hybrid of the two here. Stan seems to really like KCP.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I think even a hybrid approach would see us with more than one reliable shooter in our starting lineup.

KCP shot near league average next year. He improved from year one in that department. I can see him getting above average. Tobias shot above average. Johnson is a question mark. I don't think it's out of the question that we can start that 5.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Kilo]

Only way I could see Stan and Co looking at Harris is if his agent called up Detroit at 12:01 on Wednesday and said "Send me an offer sheet for 4 yrs and 56M and Tobias will sign it right now as he's in my office as we speak". That would lock us out of other offers for 48 hours, but Demarre Carrol and Danny Green probably won't sign right out of the gate with anybody either.

I think Stan knows who's willing to come here already even if you can't officially offer contracts or talk to other players. Players can talk to each other, agents can speak in legalese to get message across without saying anything official or against the CBA/rules.

One strike against Harris allowed to walk here unmatched is Stan was publicly critical of their FO when they fired Vaughn. He needs to self-censor on commenting on other teams now given he's Team President, de facto GM and has organizational power and isn't simply the coach.

I believe I read rfa have to wait a week after July 1st

Thinking more about this I remember that nobody can officially sign for the first week BUT UFA's can of course agree to accept an offer and then sign it when it's first allowed on July 8th (or whenever) whereas RFA's could agree to an offer sheet and sign it the first opportunity when allowed, but then their team would have the 2-3 days to match it or not. So this makes a lot of sense that Stan would first go after Danny Green or DeMarre Carroll to try and get them to agree quickly - like he did with Jodie Meeks, and if they decide to go elsewhere then he can still get in on Harris. Harris can't guarantee himself to Detroit on July 1st-July 8th, the UFA's can. He could agree to sign an offer sheet though I guess, but then our best bet would be to first try and work out a S&T with Orlando and if they were demanding too much - have Tobias sign our offer sheet officially and double dog dare Orlando to match.

[Pharaoh]

Boston have more to offer in a S&T but that assumes Harris signs an offersheet with them.

It's not a case of signing an offer with us, Orlando then match and S&T him to Boston.

If Harris signs our offer sheet Orlando can match but would then have to wait until whenever (Dec 13?) to trade him

[Neptune]

I'm happy to hear we're interested in the young guy Tabias! He's not worth a max deal, but you gotta offer big cash so hopefully the Magic won't match.

Now see, this is why I was so against the Illyasova deal. We could have used that 8mil on Tobias Harris and still had cap space available to persuade Monroe to stay (yes, I still hope he'll stay).

We could've rolled with a strict Harris/Monroe/Drummond front-court with Harris playing 3/4. A Jennings/Jackson/Harris/Monroe/Drummond starting five looks damn good on paper man! @ElectricMayhem, don't forget your thread called "The Pick5 Contest".

That's not a option because Moose is definitely gone.

Let's play the wait-and-see game.

If you're the GM, would you offer Harris a max deal?

[Snakebites]

I'll buy a hat made of the toughest material and personally eat it if Monroe resigns.

That's how confident I am that he's gonzo.

[bballnmike]

Probably has been posted here before, but an interesting article about Tobias Harris and the "Versatile Forward"

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/

[Blkbrd671]

And SVG loves him all things Popovich/San Antonio to boot. So hed love to get Green here and then pick his brain a bit and have the players see how a (former) SA player prepares and the like. We'll have to overpay Green, but some of that could be mitigated by the fact that once Johnson proves ready to start, we could trade Meek and his one year remaining, and have Danny back up both the 2 and 3 for the rest of his contract here. Green made $4M last season, and is only around $15M for his career at this point. I think he'll come cheaper than other targets - 4 yrs 40M could be enough, and that would leave us more money for other FA's - assume Anthony stays for 3M/season, we'd have $7M to spend on another center to round out our roster.

That's what I'm thinking. Give Green 4/40 and with rumors of Charlotte maybe letting Biyombo go I would throw the rest his way.

Jackson/Jennings
KCP/Meeks
Johnson/Green
Ilyasova/Tolliver
Drummond/Biyombo

I really like that squad

Why would Green come to a 32-50 Detroit team to come off the bench? Makes no sense. if he comes here and we pay him 11-12 mil a year, he is starting.


http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2015/04/detroit_pistons_coach_puts_ken.html

from this article I don't think SVG is sold on KCP

You mean the player that svg entrusted with the most minutes and has called him part of our core ?


Detroit vs Everybody

[mojosodope]

Probably has been posted here before, but an interesting article about Tobias Harris and the "Versatile Forward"

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/

and the graphic

[bjones521]

That's what I'm thinking. Give Green 4/40 and with rumors of Charlotte maybe letting Biyombo go I would throw the rest his way.

Jackson/Jennings
KCP/Meeks
Johnson/Green
Ilyasova/Tolliver
Drummond/Biyombo

I really like that squad

Why would Green come to a 32-50 Detroit team to come off the bench? Makes no sense. if he comes here and we pay him 11-12 mil a year, he is starting.


http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2015/04/detroit_pistons_coach_puts_ken.html

from this article I don't think SVG is sold on KCP

You mean the player that svg entrusted with the most minutes and has called him part of our core ?


Detroit vs Everybody

He was literally our ONLY good wing defender for more than half the season till Reggie came. That may be the reason he had to play. SVG would bring in Jodie for offensive purposes then have to take him out because he was god awful on defense. Probably the reason he played the most minutes. We had Jennings/Meeks/Singler who are all bad defensively. KCP had to guard 1's, 2's and 3's.

Trust me if we get Green and SJ shows anything, KCP will be a 6th man. I don't dislike KCP but he doesn't really do anything well offensively.

Like Snakebites eluded, Reggie, KCP and SJ would have horrible spacing. Thats why I don't want Harris. Harris at the 4 would cause even worse spacing. I think KCP could be the odd man out. If we don't get Green or any other big free agent and just sign a Brewer type free agent I think this will be KCP's last year to prove himself.

[bballnmike]

Probably has been posted here before, but an interesting article about Tobias Harris and the "Versatile Forward"

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/

and the graphic

It's beautiful...

[mrfalse9]

i wonder if we would still pursue Harris if we sign either of Carroll and Danny Green? if i were to decide, i'd target Harris as he is much younger and much fitter with our young team

[Kilo]

^No money for that. Unless it was a S&T with us sending serious salary back to Orlando in the process. I don't think we have anything expendable that they'd want in that scenario.

My plan of attack would be to reach out to Toby with a verbal offer of a max contract max years and if he'd come here for it. If he agreed, I'd then reach out to Orlando and offer them a protected first rounder in a S&T for Harris, if they balked and wanted more, I'd just have Harris sign the offer sheet with us and wait the 72 hours. But I'd gladly trade a lotto protected first for Harris if it meant getting him versus Orlando matching.

[Snakebites]

We have 18 mill in cap space.

That doesn't leave us room to sign any 2 of Green, Carroll, and Harris. We can only in theory sign one.

Two MIGHT have been a possibility without the Ily trade, but SVG believes trades to be a more reliable way of gaining players than free agency, and he's right. The odds of being able to convince 2 of those guys to sign with us was vanishingly small anyway, and minutes wise we don't really need 2 anyway.

[bjones521]

We have 18 mill in cap space.

That doesn't leave us room to sign any 2 of Green, Carroll, and Harris. We can only in theory sign one.

Two MIGHT have been a possibility without the Ily trade, but SVG believes trades to be a more reliable way of gaining players than free agency, and he's right. The odds of being able to convince 2 of those guys to sign with us was vanishingly small anyway, and minutes wise we don't really need 2 anyway.

Wow I thought we had more money than 18 mil. If thats the case i think Harris to a max deal is a pipe dream. Guys we don't have a backup for Dre and he loves to get into foul trouble from time to time. He needs a legitimate backup.

How much do you guys think a serviceable backup will cost? Hell, Jodie Meeks makes 6mil a year lol

I really hope Im wrong but I don't think Detroit will get any top tier free agents unless we vastly over pay for them and I don't think SVG will be dumb enough to give Harris, Green or Carroll max deals.

[Snakebites]

We have 18 mill in cap space.

That doesn't leave us room to sign any 2 of Green, Carroll, and Harris. We can only in theory sign one.

Two MIGHT have been a possibility without the Ily trade, but SVG believes trades to be a more reliable way of gaining players than free agency, and he's right. The odds of being able to convince 2 of those guys to sign with us was vanishingly small anyway, and minutes wise we don't really need 2 anyway.

Wow I thought we had more money than 18 mil. If thats the case i think Harris to a max deal is a pipe dream. Guys we don't have a backup for Dre and he loves to get into foul trouble from time to time. He needs a legitimate backup.

How much do you guys think a serviceable backup will cost? Hell, Jodie Meeks makes 6mil a year lol

I really hope Im wrong but I don't think Detroit will get any top tier free agents unless we vastly over pay for them and I don't think SVG will be dumb enough to give Harris, Green or Carroll max deals.

I hear what you are saying but we have to think beyond this season. I seriously doubt we'd pass on Harris just because we might not be able to snag a decent backup center. He fits too well moving forward.

[bjones521]

We have 18 mill in cap space.

That doesn't leave us room to sign any 2 of Green, Carroll, and Harris. We can only in theory sign one.

Two MIGHT have been a possibility without the Ily trade, but SVG believes trades to be a more reliable way of gaining players than free agency, and he's right. The odds of being able to convince 2 of those guys to sign with us was vanishingly small anyway, and minutes wise we don't really need 2 anyway.

Wow I thought we had more money than 18 mil. If thats the case i think Harris to a max deal is a pipe dream. Guys we don't have a backup for Dre and he loves to get into foul trouble from time to time. He needs a legitimate backup.

How much do you guys think a serviceable backup will cost? Hell, Jodie Meeks makes 6mil a year lol

I really hope Im wrong but I don't think Detroit will get any top tier free agents unless we vastly over pay for them and I don't think SVG will be dumb enough to give Harris, Green or Carroll max deals.

I hear what you are saying but we have to think beyond this season. I seriously doubt we'd pass on Harris just because we might not be able to snag a decent backup center. He fits too well moving forward.

I hope your right

[zeebneeb]

I'm starting to think svg has kinda cornered himself. He traded for erson (nothing wrong with the trade) to start, but if erson doesn't really pan out, and he lands one of the true sf's on the market, it puts us in a bind. It's either tolliver, or erson, unless stan really believes johnson can play the 4 (he's around the same size as draymond, maybe even heavier)which I don't know if he can or not.

We really, really need to sign a versatile forward here. Johnsons to good to come off the bench, we overpaid for a backup. Erson sucks starting, we are stuck with tolliver.

I like danny green, and I could care less about money, it's not mine, but alot of our cap could be sucked up, on a bench player, if johnson ends up starting.

If we land tobias, it solves to problems, right out of the gate.

I have this feeling though, after stan passed on winslow, he wont even make an offer to tobias. His target, is, in fact, danny green. He is the type of player, stan would covet.

I like the team so far, but I'm worried.

[Liver_Pooty]

Harris is a really, really good player, but he disappears like a magician at times. I'm sure this has been touched on, but would you guys prefer Harris or Draymond?

Regardless both are going to get the max where ever they go.