2015 Draft Thread - Part 1

[nuposse04]

I honestly believe that this is consistent with the front office's vision. At the beginning of last (his rookie) season, Wittman said that long term, they envisioned Otto as playing some 4.

With Gortat as our rim protector and only post scorer? I hope to god management doesn't overrate Gortat like that. It's insane.

He's been the rim protector and defensive anchor of an elite defense the past two seasons.

That and Porter, Wall and even Beal to some degree are decent help defenders. Porter was fairly adept at coming over and helping block shots and we all know Wall is athletic enough to help out with contesting shots. Only thing is we need to get guys to rotate over and help on contests consistently.

[dckingsfan]

Do we feel that Gortat is an elite rim protector? He is 55th in terms of Blk% for players with over 1000 minutes. So, good but not elite right? I think that it is more the defensive scheme that we run and more of a team effort?

Correct me if I am wrong here - I could very well be...

[payitforward]

YES I am ok with Aaron White! 6'9 Rebounds well, plays solid D, high energy effort guy, He can stretch the floor a bit too.

You mean "rebounds poorly", right? 9.5 per 40 minutes -- Oubre out-rebounds White!

Still... not a terrible pick -- especially given that the guy I'd have taken, Cliff Alexander, wasn't even drafted. Lets look back later and see whether that was a mistake.

white put down about 7.3 rebounds a game last year, he is not a poor rebounder, he's a good rebounder, not a great or really good, just good, respectable, or solid. I don't care much for per 40 numbers much, I would rather look at game logs, per game and totals. Kelly Obre pulled down 4.9 a game last year and in total got 179 rebounds. White had a total of 248. But like you said not a terrible pick, I just clearly like him more than some. I wish we would not stash him in europe for a year! I would rather have him on the team or send him to the D league, at least in the D league we can bring him in if we want or need too.

Whether you "care much for per 40 numbers" or not, they are clearly what matters. If one guy averages 27 minutes a game and 9 rebounds, and a second guy averages 37 minutes a game and 10 rebounds, the 2d guy is not the better rebounder, the first guy is.

White's 7.1 boards a game is poor rebounding for a 4 -- and you see that in the per 40 version of it: 9.5 boards. No that's not good for a PF. Still, lets give the guy a chance. His overall numbers are pretty good. He's a very efficient scorer, and he gets more steals than he has turnovers.

[nuposse04]

Do we feel that Gortat is an elite rim protector? He is 55th in terms of Blk% for players with over 1000 minutes. So, good but not elite right? I think that it is more the defensive scheme that we run and more of a team effort?

Correct me if I am wrong here - I could very well be...

I think a more telling stat would be Gortat's opponents fg% at the rim, or 0-3 feet out. Blocks are nice, but so long as he causing guys to miss more then most centers at the rim I'm satisfied with his play. I'm sure sports vu must have some way of discerning that.

[keynote]

I really don't see an issue with playing Otto at the 4. Realistically, how many players have post games that you have to really worry about? The traditional post game is all but dead in today's game. Obviously you're not gonna play Porter against someone like Zach Randolph, but guys like Paul Millsap who have really sub-par back to the basket play, like 90% of the bigs in the league, I just don't see the issue. Otto has the speed and length (not saying strength isn't important, but quickness if a far greater indicator of rebounding ability IMO) to compete with other 4's on the boards.

Hrm. I recall Millsap taking Porter to school on the block in the playofffs. Millsap isn't Kevin McHale, but he's more than serviceable in the post -- especially vs. players he outweighs. I do think Porter will do fine against stretch 4s and tweeners once he fills out, but I'll need to see more than what I saw last year to believe that he can check the Millsaps of the league right now.

[gambitx777]

You mean "rebounds poorly", right? 9.5 per 40 minutes -- Oubre out-rebounds White!

Still... not a terrible pick -- especially given that the guy I'd have taken, Cliff Alexander, wasn't even drafted. Lets look back later and see whether that was a mistake.

white put down about 7.3 rebounds a game last year, he is not a poor rebounder, he's a good rebounder, not a great or really good, just good, respectable, or solid. I don't care much for per 40 numbers much, I would rather look at game logs, per game and totals. Kelly Obre pulled down 4.9 a game last year and in total got 179 rebounds. White had a total of 248. But like you said not a terrible pick, I just clearly like him more than some. I wish we would not stash him in europe for a year! I would rather have him on the team or send him to the D league, at least in the D league we can bring him in if we want or need too.

Whether you "care much for per 40 numbers" or not, they are clearly what matters. If one guy averages 27 minutes a game and 9 rebounds, and a second guy averages 37 minutes a game and 10 rebounds, the 2d guy is not the better rebounder, the first guy is.

White's 7.1 boards a game is poor rebounding for a 4 -- and you see that in the per 40 version of it: 9.5 boards. No that's not good for a PF. Still, lets give the guy a chance. His overall numbers are pretty good. He's a very efficient scorer, and he gets more steals than he has turnovers.

But that is a specific example that does not if the situation that we were talking about. I think Per 40 minute numbers can make some guy look better in some places than they really are. depending on a number of variables. I would rather look at something on a per game basis, and really dig in to what they are doing form game to game. I think per 40 has its pros and cons just like ever measurement system does. No system is perfect.

[queridiculo]

Hrm. I recall Millsap taking Porter to school on the block in the playofffs. Millsap isn't Kevin McHale, but he's more than serviceable in the post -- especially vs. players he outweighs. I do think Porter will do fine against stretch 4s and tweeners once he fills out, but I'll need to see more than what I saw last year to believe that he can check the Millsaps of the league right now.

It was a matchup I was hoping for to change things up against Atlanta, but it never happened.

I don't recall a single instance of Porter guarding Millsap, neither on the perimeter nor in the post.

[hands11]

I will say though, Oubre's production in year one leads me to believe he may not be as bad as projected in his rookie season. Dude has potential, just don't understand the fit unless we can get Porter to add 10 lbs of muscles to his legs lol.

Man. That would be so awesome if Porter developed the strength to be a stretch four full time. If we landed Durant, we could potentially have 5 interchangeable guys to guard positions 1 through 4 (Wall, Beal, Oubre, Durant, Porter).

I honestly believe that this is consistent with the front office's vision. At the beginning of last (his rookie) season, Wittman said that long term, they envisioned Otto as playing some 4.

He said the same thing in the post draft interview just the other day. But it was framed as a down the road thing.

[barelyawake]

With Gortat as our rim protector and only post scorer? I hope to god management doesn't overrate Gortat like that. It's insane.

He's been the rim protector and defensive anchor of an elite defense the past two seasons.

That and Porter, Wall and even Beal to some degree are decent help defenders. Porter was fairly adept at coming over and helping block shots and we all know Wall is athletic enough to help out with contesting shots. Only thing is we need to get guys to rotate over and help on contests consistently.

This is exactly where regular season stats are meaningless. If you think Gortat is an elite defensive anchor for a championship team, because regular season stats somehow convince you of that, more power to you. I think it's nonsense (especially so with Porter at the PF and not Nene).

We are not going to win a championship against the Aldridges, ADs and LeBrons of the world with Porter at the 4 and Gortat at the 5. And if management believes we will, they are vastly overrating our players and underrating how hard it is to win a championship.

[tontoz]

Porter is not strong enough to play many minutes at the 4. Pretty much any 4 will be able to back him down routinely.

On the subject of stats, per minute numbers > per game numbers. There is no debating that.

[nate33]

Porter is not strong enough to play many minutes at the 4. Pretty much any 4 will be able to back him down routinely.

On the subject of stats, per minute numbers > per game numbers. There is no debating that.

I'm not so sure. Porter is thin, but I think he is wiry strong a la Kevin Garnett. Sure, he's going to have trouble with guys like Zach Randolph, but those guys are dinosaurs. I think he'll eventually be able to guard 75% of the starting PF's in the game.

[dckingsfan]

Do we feel that Gortat is an elite rim protector? He is 55th in terms of Blk% for players with over 1000 minutes. So, good but not elite right? I think that it is more the defensive scheme that we run and more of a team effort?

Correct me if I am wrong here - I could very well be...

I think a more telling stat would be Gortat's opponents fg% at the rim, or 0-3 feet out. Blocks are nice, but so long as he causing guys to miss more then most centers at the rim I'm satisfied with his play. I'm sure sports vu must have some way of discerning that.

Yep, and then rebounding those misses... Watching - I wouldn't say elite, more "solid".

[barelyawake]

Porter is not strong enough to play many minutes at the 4. Pretty much any 4 will be able to back him down routinely.

On the subject of stats, per minute numbers > per game numbers. There is no debating that.

I'm not so sure. Porter is thin, but I think he is wiry strong a la Kevin Garnett. Sure, he's going to have trouble with guys like Zach Randolph, but those guys are dinosaurs. I think he'll eventually be able to guard 75% of the starting PF's in the game.

And the 25% are going to be the ones in the playoffs. And A bunch of SFs playing together could work, if we had prime Camby or prime Ben Wallace roaming the lane. Gortat gets lost on help defense every other play and has zero cred with the refs against the elite bigs of the NBA. This discussion honestly reminds me of people convincing themselves that Blatche could one day develop into a star player. Gortat is what he is. He's a good roleplayer. You can't expect to beat the elite teams of the league with two role players at the four and five, especially two that don't compliment each other as Porter and Gortat do not.

[nate33]

Porter is not strong enough to play many minutes at the 4. Pretty much any 4 will be able to back him down routinely.

On the subject of stats, per minute numbers > per game numbers. There is no debating that.

I'm not so sure. Porter is thin, but I think he is wiry strong a la Kevin Garnett. Sure, he's going to have trouble with guys like Zach Randolph, but those guys are dinosaurs. I think he'll eventually be able to guard 75% of the starting PF's in the game.

And the 25% are going to be the ones in the playoffs. And A bunch of SFs playing together could work, if we had prime Camby or prime Ben Wallace roaming the lane. Gortat gets lost on help defense every other play and has zero cred with the refs against the elite bigs of the NBA. This discussion honestly reminds me of people convincing themselves that Blatche could one day develop into a star player. Gortat is what he is. He's a good roleplayer. You can't expect to beat the elite teams of the league with two role players at the four and five, especially two that don't compliment each other as Porter and Gortat do not.

You underrate Gortat. He's more than a good role player.

Among centers averaging 25 or more minutes a game, Gortat ranks 6th in real plus minus, and 6th in defensive plus minus. He ranks 15th in the league at FG% allowed at the rim. He's not Serge Ibaka or Rudy Gobert as a rim protector, but he's in the same echelon as Horford, Marc Gasol and Drummond.

[nate33]

Porter is not strong enough to play many minutes at the 4. Pretty much any 4 will be able to back him down routinely.

On the subject of stats, per minute numbers > per game numbers. There is no debating that.

I'm not so sure. Porter is thin, but I think he is wiry strong a la Kevin Garnett. Sure, he's going to have trouble with guys like Zach Randolph, but those guys are dinosaurs. I think he'll eventually be able to guard 75% of the starting PF's in the game.

And the 25% are going to be the ones in the playoffs. And A bunch of SFs playing together could work, if we had prime Camby or prime Ben Wallace roaming the lane. Gortat gets lost on help defense every other play and has zero cred with the refs against the elite bigs of the NBA. This discussion honestly reminds me of people convincing themselves that Blatche could one day develop into a star player. Gortat is what he is. He's a good roleplayer. You can't expect to beat the elite teams of the league with two role players at the four and five, especially two that don't compliment each other as Porter and Gortat do not.

And I don't think Porter can go toe-to-toe defending the likes of Blake Griffin or Zach Randolph, but I think in a year or so, he'll be able to defend most PF's in the East. We're talking about guys like Bosh (a face up slasher), Melo (a face up shooter), Mirotic, Lebron, Millsap, etc. Just who is going to take him down and punish him in the post? There's Kevin Love and that's about it.

[80sballboy]

I'm not so sure. Porter is thin, but I think he is wiry strong a la Kevin Garnett. Sure, he's going to have trouble with guys like Zach Randolph, but those guys are dinosaurs. I think he'll eventually be able to guard 75% of the starting PF's in the game.

And the 25% are going to be the ones in the playoffs. And A bunch of SFs playing together could work, if we had prime Camby or prime Ben Wallace roaming the lane. Gortat gets lost on help defense every other play and has zero cred with the refs against the elite bigs of the NBA. This discussion honestly reminds me of people convincing themselves that Blatche could one day develop into a star player. Gortat is what he is. He's a good roleplayer. You can't expect to beat the elite teams of the league with two role players at the four and five, especially two that don't compliment each other as Porter and Gortat do not.

And I don't think Porter can go toe-to-toe defending the likes of Blake Griffin or Zach Randolph, but I think in a year or so, he'll be able to defend most PF's in the East. We're talking about guys like Bosh (a face up slasher), Melo (a face up shooter), Mirotic, Lebron, Millsap, etc. Just who is going to take him down and punish him in the post? There's Kevin Love and that's about it.

Porter better get up to 230 (good luck) to hold his own against LeBron, who likely become a point power forward the longer he plays. Right now, he's giving up about 50 pounds minimum. We don't have anybody at this point that can physically stay with LeBron. In fact, against Atlanta, we were punished by Paul Millsap.

[tontoz]

And I don't think Porter can go toe-to-toe defending the likes of Blake Griffin or Zach Randolph, but I think in a year or so, he'll be able to defend most PF's in the East. We're talking about guys like Bosh (a face up slasher), Melo (a face up shooter), Mirotic, Lebron, Millsap, etc. Just who is going to take him down and punish him in the post? There's Kevin Love and that's about it.

Porter would have no chance guarding either Lebron or Melo, on the post or on the perimeter. They are both much quicker and much stronger than Porter.

[Kanyewest]

Porter better get up to 230 (good luck) to hold his own against LeBron, who likely become a point power forward the longer he plays. Right now, he's giving up about 50 pounds minimum. We don't have anybody at this point that can physically stay with LeBron. In fact, against Atlanta, we were punished by Paul Millsap.

Then again someone like Iguodala is only 205 pounds and was able to contain LeBron. Ariza is listed at 215. I recall Millsap giving Pierce a tough time - although even then Millsap shot under 40% for the series and around 20% from 3 point range.

Porter was fine defensively against Atlanta- he did need to do more on the offensive end- at least in the final 3 games of the series. Hopefully, Porter can become more consistent with his 3 point shot.

[Ruzious]

Porter better get up to 230 (good luck) to hold his own against LeBron, who likely become a point power forward the longer he plays. Right now, he's giving up about 50 pounds minimum. We don't have anybody at this point that can physically stay with LeBron. In fact, against Atlanta, we were punished by Paul Millsap.

Then again someone like Iguodala is only 205 pounds and was able to contain LeBron. Ariza is listed at 215. I recall Millsap giving Pierce a tough time - although even then Millsap shot under 40% for the series and around 20% from 3 point range.

Porter was fine defensively against Atlanta- he did need to do more on the offensive end- at least in the final 3 games of the series. Hopefully, Porter can become more consistent with his 3 point shot.

Iggy's biceps are probably twice the size of Porter's - he's much stronger. I don't know what he weighs, but I assume it's a good 20 lbs of muscle more than Porter. Maybe Porter and Oubre get heavier over time, but I don't see them being players who will become interior defenders.

In Gortat, we have good interior defender- not an elite one, so we do need to add someone to help him. A player like Brandan Wright can do that. He's thin, but he's 230ish thin; not 205ish thin.

[hands11]

.
Welcome your opinons: Is it wrong of me to revel in schadenfreude associated wit the current state of the Knicks?

Carmelo Anthony reportedly unhappy with Knicks’ draft moves

Carmelo Anthony just turned 31. He’s coming off a lost season that ended with knee surgery. The 10-time all-star would probably rather see his New York Knicks make moves that pay off immediately, rather than draft Latvians who might not start producing at an NBA level for three years or more.

Read the rest by clicking here.

carmelo is just upset they are thinking past him like they are supposed to be. Kristsaps will be really good and he needs to get over it. I'd rather have Kristsaps than melo especially at his price

This will be interesting to watch play out. Melo is right. This is not a pick to support him being there. Not in the next two years.

Melo signed a Kobe contract. They can try to load up for a run with him or tank another year and gain another top asset.

NY can go either way. But to support that pick, they need to play him though the bad to develop him.

This could tip either way depending on who they can land in FA.

If Melo wasn't signed on for this, he should have left instead of choosing the max money.

He was at that point where he could go for the title run and good money or max money. Melo always chooses max money first.